Definition of the Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter Momofmyangels
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Momofmyangels

Guest
I realize most will think that this would be better in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum, but it was a discussion there that prompted me to ask this question here.

I made the statement that when we are assisting at Mass, we are uniting ourselves with the priest in offering Our Lord’s Sacrifice to God. It is the same as the Sacrifice on the Cross, only the manner in which it is offered is different. On the Cross, Christ physically shed his blood for us, while in the Mass the same sacrifice is occuring, however there is no physical shedding of blood again. Each Mass that is offered repeats that sacrifice.

I have since been corrected with comments that the Mass is not repeated, but rather extended. Well, Christ suffered, died, was buried and resurrected so it is done and therefore cannot be extended. However, the sacrifice can and is repeated at each and every Mass. I am not saying that Christ suffers and dies with each Mass, the manner is different…unbloody. The reality is the same.

Another comment is that the Mass is representative of the last supper. Well, the first Mass was of course the last supper, but the sacrifice is again, the same.

And another…the Mass is a gathering and celebration of the sacrifice. Am I the only one that believes that the Mass IS the same sacrifice as the sacrifice on the cross with the only difference being it is in an unbloody manner?
 
Your definition seems to be correct.

Perhaps the confusion came when the definition of the New Mass was given in the General Preface:
“The Lord’s Supper is the assembly or gathering together of the people of God, with a priest presiding to celebrate the memorial of the Lord. For this reason the promise of Christ is particularly true of a local congregation of the Church: ‘Where two or three are gathered in my name there am I in their midst’” (General Instruction to the Novus Ordo, April 6, 1969).
Click to expand...
This was actually signed by the Pope.
 
ProVobis said:
Your definition seems to be correct.

Perhaps the confusion came when the definition of the New Mass was given in the General Preface:

This was actually signed by the Pope.
Click to expand...
So, then because of this do people generally believe that the Mass is no longer a sacrifice?
 
Momofmyangels said:
…

I have since been corrected with comments that the Mass is not repeated, but rather extended. …
Click to expand...
I think relative to Christ’s salvific act that “makes present” rather than “extended” most accurately describes Mass. The present tense of the descriptive verb is the crux. Therefore, “extends” I think would be preferable to “extended.”
 
No, I do not believe that most people consider the Mass to be a sacrifice. They don’t really know what it is, because they have had little or no training about it, and they think of it as just something to do.

But then again, in the old days, most people didn’t bother to learn the Latin, so they could fully participate in the Mass. You still have people that don’t hear a word, because they are so busy praying a Rosary, reading a Missle, etc., etc.

The lack of any depth of knowledge about much of Church never ceases to astound me.
 
Momofmyangels said:
Am I the only one that believes that the Mass IS the same sacrifice as the sacrifice on the cross with the only difference being it is in an unbloody manner?
Click to expand...
I believe that and the Church teaches it for all Catholics to believe. However, doctrinal definitions are often very precise in their wording. I did not see the other thread to which you refer, but perhaps some of the comments were about wording rather that a disagreement with the basic idea.

For example, we don’t say that the Mass repeats the sacrifice on the Cross because that contradicts Scripture. When we read chapter 10 of the Letter to the Hebrews, it is very clear that the sacrifice is not repeated. (Note verses 10,12, 14) What we say instead is that the sacrifice is made present.

Do you have access to the Catechism of the Catholic Church? If you read sections 1362 to 1367 you can see the best terminology for expressing our beliefs about the Eucharist. Here is a link: scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#V
 
The Sacrifice on Calvary is RE-PRESENTED in an unbloody way as a way to appeal to God for mercy on account of our sins.
That is my understanding of it.

Where I grew up. It was never explained. The mass was never explained. All we were taught was to be good little citizens, be honest, and love everyone.

Catechesis in a lot of areas is lacking. Perhaps it has something to do with the plummet of vocations among men and women. Even priests and sisters nowadays, in my area, express little to any interest in knowledge of the Church, doctrine, or theology.
 
floresco said:
For example, we don’t say that the Mass repeats the sacrifice on the Cross because that contradicts Scripture. When we read chapter 10 of the Letter to the Hebrews, it is very clear that the sacrifice is not repeated. (Note verses 10,12, 14) What we say instead is that the sacrifice is made present.
]
Click to expand...
But these verses pertain to the sacrifices offered by the priests of old verses the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Because that was all they could offer at the time, they offered the blood of goats, calves and lamb, and they did so often. Jesus’s offering was done once, because it was enough. That one sacrifice was enough to pay the price for our redemption. All the sacrifices of old could not accomplish what Christ’s one sacrifice did and this is what these verses are saying, no?
 
Momofmyangels said:
But these verses pertain to the sacrifices offered by the priests of old verses the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Because that was all they could offer at the time, they offered the blood of goats, calves and lamb, and they did so often. Jesus’s offering was done once, because it was enough. That one sacrifice was enough to pay the price for our redemption. All the sacrifices of old could not accomplish what Christ’s one sacrifice did and this is what these verses are saying, no?
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree that is the context. Here is a passage from Hebrews 10:[11] And every priest indeed standeth daily ministering, and often offering the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [12] But this man offering one sacrifice for sins, for ever sitteth on the right hand of God, [13] From henceforth expecting, until his enemies be made his footstool. [14] For by one oblation he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

We want to avoid using the word “repeat” about the sacrifice of the Mass because we want to conform to the distinction the Bible makes here. The Jewish priests made repeated sacrifices that were insufficient for salvation from sin but the sacrifice of Christ happens once and is sufficient. The Catechism uses words like “makes present” or “re-presents” because it is clearer that Christ’s sacrifice happens once.
 
floresco said:
We want to avoid using the word “repeat” about the sacrifice of the Mass because we want to conform to the distinction the Bible makes here. The Jewish priests made repeated sacrifices that were insufficient for salvation from sin but the sacrifice of Christ happens once and is sufficient. The Catechism uses words like “makes present” or “re-presents” because it is clearer that Christ’s sacrifice happens once.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying, using “repeat” in that sense of the word. I guess peoples’ interpretation varies. However, for me since the offering is the same, the sacrifice is the same, therefore it is repeated, just in an unbloody manner.

BTW, the Baltimore Catechism uses the word repeat.
 
Momofmyangels said:
I understand what you are saying, using “repeat” in that sense of the word. I guess peoples’ interpretation varies. However, for me since the offering is the same, the sacrifice is the same, therefore it is repeated, just in an unbloody manner.

BTW, the Baltimore Catechism uses the word repeat.
Click to expand...
Yes, it does. It says: The Mass continues the Sacrifice of the Cross. Each time Mass is offered, the Sacrifice of Christ is repeated. A new sacrifice is not offered, but by divine power, one and the same sacrifice is repeated. “As often as you shall eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord, until He comes” (I Corinthians 11, 26)

Depending on what people mean by the word “repeat” it is not necessarily wrong. But it can be a confusing word. If you encounter people who are objecting to it, they may very well be completely orthodox in their beliefs. Personally I prefer to avoid this potential confusion, but I can understand you wanting to use the wording of the Baltimore Catechism. It is a wonderful book.
 
floresco said:
Yes, it does. It says: The Mass continues the Sacrifice of the Cross. Each time Mass is offered, the Sacrifice of Christ is repeated. A new sacrifice is not offered, but by divine power, one and the same sacrifice is repeated. “As often as you shall eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord, until He comes” (I Corinthians 11, 26)

Depending on what people mean by the word “repeat” it is not necessarily wrong. But it can be a confusing word. If you encounter people who are objecting to it, they may very well be completely orthodox in their beliefs. Personally I prefer to avoid this potential confusion, but I can understand you wanting to use the wording of the Baltimore Catechism. It is a wonderful book.
Click to expand...
Do you wonder if this varying interpretation of words is perhaps why many don’t seem to understand the reality of what the Mass really is?
 
Momofmyangels said:
Do you wonder if this varying interpretation of words is perhaps why many don’t seem to understand the reality of what the Mass really is?
Click to expand...
This particular concept is especially difficult to understand and discuss. It is beyond human experience to speak of an event that both took place in the past and yet continues to be present. But all the concepts associated with the Eucharist are great mysteries that we can only understand in a limited way. Even with ideal catechesis we would be struggling, and, for the most part, we have far from ideal catechesis.

Also the Mass itself, in the Ordinary form that most Catholic are familiar with, has less clear theological formulations than the traditional Latin Mass, weakening another possible path to understanding. Given all the factors against proper understanding of the Mass, we are doing well that anybody understands it at all. 😃
 
I was taught that Mass was a “gathering” and a “meal” in my religious education classes. It wasn’t until later that I learned that it was a sacrifice.

I find it interesting to note that one of Martin Luther’s biggest complaints about the Catholic Mass was that it was a sacrifice and not a representation or a communal gathering around a “table.” Couple that with the fact that there were protestant influences in the writing of the Novus Ordo Mass and what resulted seemed a little less than coincidental (a downplaying of the sacrificial aspect, subsequent references to Mass as a “meal” or a “gathering” or the Altar as a “table”).

Telling, isn’t it? :rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top