Definition of "The Vatican"?

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ClemtheCatholic

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I sometimes read stuff about how “The Vatican” has a certain view or it has said something or whatever. Can somebody explain what is meant by this phrase, who it encompasses, and how much weight it carries?

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ClemtheCatholic 🙂
 
Some seem to use the term The Vatican as a kind of shorthand for Vatican City (the country). 🙂
 
I think that when we hear that “News from the Vatican” line, or “The Vatican stated today…” what the supplier of information is actually saying is “Someone from the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church said/did blah blah blah…”.
 
The Vatican can also refer to the Holy See, the governing body of the Catholic Church,
 
When you hear someone say “the Vatican has a certain view” on, say, abortion or gay marriage or contraception or similar, it is sometimes weasel words to (falsely) try to separate the unpopular teachings of the Church into a set of ideas that the “hierarchy” holds (with the implication that “normal” Catholics don’t) so as not to say out right that the dissenting Catholics who disagree are disagreeing with their faith. In reality, what people call (except when they mess up) the Vatican’s view on such things is usually just Church teaching.

(I say this not to try to be antagonistic, but because this is what I read your question to be asking about. If it was not, feel free to ignore my reply.)
 
Because people don’t really know their terms, especially the secular media. They don’t know to distinguish the Catholic Church, the Holy See and the State of Vatican City.

“The Vatican” rarely does anything that is newsworthy. In most cases involving international and diplomatic issues, it’s really the Holy See that’s calling the shots. So for example, if a statement is made in diplomatic circles such as the U.N. on treaties, international affairs, conventions, etc. that comes from the Holy See, not Vatican City.

On doctrinal and moral matters, it’s the Catholic Church that does it. So contraception is not “banned by the Vatican” but is not permissible according to the teaching of the Catholic Church.

About the only thing I’ve heard involving the Vatican in recent months has been the imprisonment and subsequent release of the papal butler.
 
Well there was a thing about the Vatican welcoming the proposal for more gun control (something I’d support if done in the right way). Does this mean the Vatican spokesman speaking for the Pope?
 
Iron_Donkey said:
When you hear someone say “the Vatican has a certain view” on, say, abortion or gay marriage or contraception or similar, it is sometimes weasel words to (falsely) try to separate the unpopular teachings of the Church into a set of ideas that the “hierarchy” holds (with the implication that “normal” Catholics don’t) so as not to say out right that the dissenting Catholics who disagree are disagreeing with their faith. In reality, what people call (except when they mess up) the Vatican’s view on such things is usually just Church teaching.

(I say this not to try to be antagonistic, but because this is what I read your question to be asking about. If it was not, feel free to ignore my reply.)
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Well said above.

Yeah, I find “the Vatican” a highly annoying expression. What do they mean? Could it be:
-the Holy Father
-L’Osservatore Romano (the Vatican newspaper)
-a member of the pope’s staff
-some Church office like the CDF
-the Church’s ancient teaching and theological understanding
-etc.
 
Many countries including the US have diplomatic relations with “the Holy See”, not with “the Vatican”. Even if Italy or the EU should revoke the agreement between Italy and the Holy See, and seize the territory we now call the Vatican, that would not alter the diplomatic relations of the Holy See. The Holy See maintained diplomatic relations with some countries, or some degree of sovereignty, during the time when the popes lived in Avignon France, and even during the decades prior to the 1920’s concordat with Italy, when the Pope was a sovereign with no territory.
But the deeper issue is that the media misuses the term “Vatican” as “do you want to follow your conscience, or the Holy Spirit, or instead be a robot for the (foreign) Vatican”? In the 1970s anti-Catholics would call for an “American Catholic Church” which would make our own liturgy, ordain women, ok contraception, divorce/remarriage ok, maybe replace “God, the Father” as sexist, etc, as opposed to obeying elderly white men in the Vatican, who don’t understand our ways. Thank God that trend is mostly disappearing, as the bishops are increasingly united with the Holy See, and the laity, in opposing secularism.
 
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