Definition of Virgin?

[aq5335]

I hate to clog up this forum with another post about sex, but…

Somebody I know is concerned that she is not a virgin and she’s tried to find a Catholic “definition” of virgin, but cannot. I thought this would be a good place to turn.

The main question is whether participating in oral sex makes someone no longer a virgin. (Specifically, I’m talking about cunnilingus.)

This is as far as it ever went and she and her fella have since pulled it together and have a chaste relationship, which I try to remind them is the most important thing. Still, concerns remain.

Any help you can offer–specifically, of course, if you can refer to Church documents, etc.–would be appreciated.

Best,
Me

 

[Dan_Grelinger]

The church does not appear to define ‘virgin’ differently than its commonly accepted definition. The accepted definition universially seems to be “1. a person who has never had sexual intercourse.”

So then we must find the definition of sexual intercourse.

sexual intercourse
–noun - genital contact, esp. the insertion of the penis into the vagina followed by orgasm; coitus; copulation.

For what reason would she be so concerned about this? God is much more concerned with the state of her soul today than if she has been sexually impure in the past. It is secular society that is fascinated with the status of virginity. We as Catholics believe that sin is forgiven, that chastity can be regained.

Dan

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

Hi

Well, church documents are scarce - at least through my looking. But I think the traditional concept of ‘Virgin’ holds here. The act of oral sex would leave them both unchaste during that period of time, and, providing they confessed it - that is now over.

 

[StCsDavid]

I hate to clog up this forum with another post about sex, but…

Somebody I know is concerned that she is not a virgin and she’s tried to find a Catholic “definition” of virgin, but cannot. I thought this would be a good place to turn.

The main question is whether participating in oral sex makes someone no longer a virgin. (Specifically, I’m talking about cunnilingus.)

This is as far as it ever went and she and her fella have since pulled it together and have a chaste relationship, which I try to remind them is the most important thing. Still, concerns remain.

Any help you can offer–specifically, of course, if you can refer to Church documents, etc.–would be appreciated.

Best,
Me

1 a : an unmarried woman devoted to religion b capitalized : VIRGO
2 a : an absolutely chaste young woman b : an unmarried girl or woman
3 capitalized : VIRGIN MARY
4 a : a person who has not had sexual intercourse b : a person who is inexperienced in a usually specified sphere of activity <a virgin in politics>
5 : a female animal that has never copulated

It’s my opinion that the Church is would be as concerned about definition 2a versus definition 4a. Christ even talks about committing adultery in the heart. A virgin could indeed commit adultery by violating chastity even if she never had intercourse. If your friend has engaged in oral sex, she has violated chastity and needs to go to confession. The technicality of still being a virgin is irrelevant if that is her case. She’s in a state of mortal sin.

 

[aq5335]

If your friend has engaged in oral sex, she has violated chastity and needs to go to confession. The technicality of still being a virgin is irrelevant if that is her case. She’s in a state of mortal sin.

Thanks for the reply, but just to clarify: there is no question on my part or the part of anyone involved that what happened was gravely sinful and confessions have already been made (so far as I know, but I’m pretty confident in this). So, the question is not whether it was sinful, adulterous or unchaste, but rather whether it constitutes “losing virginity”.

To reply to an earlier question about why she is concerned: she and the young man are engaged to be married now and she has been thinking about whether she can feel like she’s getting married as a virgin.

Thanks for the comments so far. I look forward to more.

 

[shadow_fire]

Hi

Well, church documents are scarce - at least through my looking. But I think the traditional concept of ‘Virgin’ holds here. The act of oral sex would leave them both unchaste during that period of time, and, providing they confessed it - that is now over.

Awww so I’m not a virgin? your kidding right?

Please tell me your kidding.

 

[Stella_Matutina]

Pam Stenzel, a famous Catholic, abstinence educator, talks about how young people today will do everything else but intercourse because they think that that still means that they are virgins. But she argues that this is simply just not true.

Oral sex is sex.

Any sexually transmitted disease that exists you can transmit through oral sex.

As far as your friend goes, first of all, it is great that they went to confession and that their relationship is getting back on the right track. And it is a wonderful thing that they still have so much saved up until their wedding night and I pray they continue to save that for each other. Whether she is technically a virgin or not is secondary to how important whether she is PURE or not.

It is very incorrect to say that those who have performed sexual acts excluding intercourse are still virgins. And that might be a hard thing for your friend to hear. But fortunately God is so very merciful! And I know that He can bring goodness out of her sin. Maybe this incident will give them more motivation to remain completely chaste until their wedding day.

 

[Stella_Matutina]

Pam Stenzel, a famous Catholic, abstinence educator, talks about how young people today will do everything else but intercourse because they think that that still means that they are virgins. But she argues that this is simply just not true.

Oral sex is sex.

Any sexually transmitted disease that exists you can transmit through oral sex.

As far as your friend goes, first of all, it is great that they went to confession and that their relationship is getting back on the right track. And it is a wonderful thing that they still have so much saved up until their wedding night and I pray they continue to save that for each other. Whether she is technically a virgin or not is secondary to how important whether she is PURE or not.

It is very incorrect to say that those who have performed sexual acts excluding intercourse are still virgins. And that might be a hard thing for your friend to hear. But fortunately God is so very merciful! And I know that He can bring goodness out of her sin. Maybe this incident will give them more motivation to remain completely chaste until their wedding day.

 

[Stella_Matutina]

Pam Stenzel, a famous Catholic, abstinence educator, talks about how young people today will do everything else but intercourse because they think that that still means that they are virgins. But she argues that this is simply just not true.

Oral sex is sex.

Any sexually transmitted disease that exists you can transmit through oral sex.

As far as your friend goes, first of all, it is great that they went to confession and that their relationship is getting back on the right track. And it is a wonderful thing that they still have so much saved up until their wedding night and I pray they continue to save that for each other. Whether she is technically a virgin or not is secondary to how important whether she is PURE or not.

It is very incorrect to say that those who have performed sexual acts excluding intercourse are still virgins. And that might be a hard thing for your friend to hear. But fortunately God is so very merciful! And I know that He can bring goodness out of her sin. Maybe this incident will give them more motivation to remain completely chaste until their wedding day.

 

[Stella_Matutina]

Pam Stenzel, a famous Catholic, abstinence educator, talks about how young people today will do everything else but intercourse because they think that that still means that they are virgins. But she argues that this is simply just not true.

Oral sex is sex.

Any sexually transmitted disease that exists you can transmit through oral sex.

As far as your friend goes, first of all, it is great that they went to confession and that their relationship is getting back on the right track. And it is a wonderful thing that they still have so much saved up until their wedding night and I pray they continue to save that for each other. Whether she is technically a virgin or not is secondary to how important whether she is PURE or not.

It is very incorrect to say that those who have performed sexual acts excluding intercourse are still virgins. And that might be a hard thing for your friend to hear. But fortunately God is so very merciful! And I know that He can bring goodness out of her sin. Maybe this incident will give them more motivation to remain completely chaste until their wedding day.

 

[Stella_Matutina]

Pam Stenzel, a famous Catholic, abstinence educator, talks about how young people today will do everything else but intercourse because they think that that still means that they are virgins. But she argues that this is simply just not true.

Oral sex is sex.

Any sexually transmitted disease that exists you can transmit through oral sex.

As far as your friend goes, first of all, it is great that they went to confession and that their relationship is getting back on the right track. And it is a wonderful thing that they still have so much saved up until their wedding night and I pray they continue to save that for each other. Whether she is technically a virgin or not is secondary to how important whether she is PURE or not.

It is very incorrect to say that those who have performed sexual acts excluding intercourse are still virgins. And that might be a hard thing for your friend to hear. But fortunately God is so very merciful! And I know that He can bring goodness out of her sin. Maybe this incident will give them more motivation to remain completely chaste until their wedding day.

 

[Blackbog]

Thanks for the reply, but just to clarify: there is no question on my part or the part of anyone involved that what happened was gravely sinful and confessions have already been made (so far as I know, but I’m pretty confident in this). So, the question is not whether it was sinful, adulterous or unchaste, but rather whether it constitutes “losing virginity”.

As regards the Church, the question is completely irrelevant. Consult an English dictionary if you are concerned about your status as a virgin.

 

[Blackbog]

Thanks for the reply, but just to clarify: there is no question on my part or the part of anyone involved that what happened was gravely sinful and confessions have already been made (so far as I know, but I’m pretty confident in this). So, the question is not whether it was sinful, adulterous or unchaste, but rather whether it constitutes “losing virginity”.

As regards the Church, the question is completely irrelevant. Consult an English dictionary if you are concerned about your status as a virgin.

 

[I_A]

The way it was presented to me, if you have not willingly and intentionally performed or participated any actions to bring about sexual pleasure. I can’t vouch for how accurate of a definition it is.

 

[litllulu]

Yes I think she would still be a virgin.

I don’t advocate oral sex but by all practical means she is a Virgin if she has not had Penal to Vaginal penetration!

 

[Stella_Matutina]

Yes I think she would still be a virgin.

I don’t advocate oral sex but by all practical means she is a Virgin if she has not had Penal to Vaginal penetration!

This defenition of virginity is false and continues to hurt young people in the long run because they continue to think that as long as they don’t engage in sexual intercourse, they are still virgins.

We have seen how this thinking has lead to horrible sin with President Bill Clinton as he thought that oral sex was not sex and mislead the country (and his wife) while under oath.

This issue is especially important with abstinence education as any genital contact can spread sexually transmitted diseases. And for those that have had any genital contact with another person should be tested.

This perspective may seem harsh, but we must not forget God’s mercy and secondary virginity.

Please read this article on the definition of Virginity from the Catholic Encyclopedia. THE DEFINITION IN WEBSTER’S DICTIONARY SHOULD NOT BE OUR PRIMARY REFERENCE.

newadvent.org/cathen/15458a.htm

this quote from the article should make everything more clear:

Virginity is irreparably lost by sexual pleasure, voluntarily and completely experienced.

This would also include masturbation.

 

[litllulu]

This defenition of virginity is false and continues to hurt young people in the long run because they continue to think that as long as they don’t engage in sexual intercourse, they are still virgins.

We have seen how this thinking has lead to horrible sin with President Bill Clinton as he thought that oral sex was not sex and mislead the country (and his wife) while under oath.

This issue is especially important with abstinence education as any genital contact can spread sexually transmitted diseases. And for those that have had any genital contact with another person should be tested.

This perspective may seem harsh, but we must not forget God’s mercy and secondary virginity.

Please read this article on the definition of Virginity from the Catholic Encyclopedia. THE DEFINITION IN WEBSTER’S DICTIONARY SHOULD NOT BE OUR PRIMARY REFERENCE.

newadvent.org/cathen/15458a.htm

this quote from the article should make everything more clear:

This would also include masturbation.

Just a medical term! I was not speaking religiously! Oral sex might be a form of sex, but it does not make someone pregnant or penetrate their vaginal tissue with a penis. Strictly medically speaking, that is correct.

If you gave a man oral sex you wouldnt say you lost your virginity! Oral sex might qualify as sex but it does not make you lose your virginity.

 

[Stella_Matutina]

Just a medical term! I was not speaking religiously! Oral sex might be a form of sex, but it does not make someone pregnant or penetrate their vaginal tissue with a penis. Strictly medically speaking, that is correct.

If you gave a man oral sex you wouldnt say you lost your virginity! Oral sex might qualify as sex but it does not make you lose your virginity.

Did you read the Catholic defenition of Virginity?

Secondly, women have become pregnant without penetration. Any genital contact with male fluid carries the risk of disease and pregnancy.

Thirdly, Virginity is not a medical term. Ask any health professional about when people should be tested for sexually transmitted diseases or when a girl should get her first gynecological exam-- the answer is when she has reached her 18th birthday or become sexually active-- which includes actions other than intercourse.

 

[litllulu]

Did you read the Catholic defenition of Virginity?

Secondly, women have become pregnant without penetration. Any genital contact with male fluid carries the risk of disease and pregnancy.

Thirdly, Virginity is not a medical term. Ask any health professional about when people should be tested for sexually transmitted diseases or when a girl should get her first gynecological exam-- the answer is when she has reached her 18th birthday or become sexually active-- which includes actions other than intercourse.

That is fine, but i just took a medical terminology class. That would clasify after “coitus” happened.

One can also get preg. from anal sex. Sometimes the fluid drips out of the rectum and past the vaginal meatus.

It is like saying a woman is a unipara (first time mother) after having her first child, even she has had a miscarriage, she would be a multigravida, (more than one pregnancy).

This is like saying, you may be sexually active but have never had intercourse.

 

[Stella_Matutina]

That is fine, but i just took a medical terminology class. That would clasify after “coitus” happened.

One can also get preg. from anal sex. Sometimes the fluid drips out of the rectum and past the vaginal meatus.

It is like saying a woman is a unipara (first time mother) after having her first child, even she has had a miscarriage, she would be a multigravida, (more than one pregnancy).

This is like saying, you may be sexually active but have never had intercourse.

I think the OP was not asking from a medical perspective.

For example even though a multigravida (including a miscarriage) might be considered a unipara in the medical world-- she is not considered to be a first time mom to God. Maybe her second pregnancy is the only birth she has experienced (unipara: one-birth) But she has one child on Earth and one in Heaven.

I think the OP was asking the question in terms of in the eyes of God and the Church.