Definition, please?

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tundramom

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So as not to derail the “Persiphone” thread, I have a question for Gnosis, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

What exactly IS a Gnostic Christian? Is this someone who follows the Gnostic gospels? 🤷

in Christ
Steph
 
What exactly IS a Gnostic Christian? Is this someone who follows the Gnostic gospels?
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The problem with your question is that there is no easy answer!

Gnosticism covers a very wide array of religions including Manichaeism and much of the neo-Platonic religions of Rome. It also includes quite a number of heresies including Marcionism, Valentianism, and even Catharism.

Some were rather close to Christian thought and did not rely heavily on the Gnostic Gospels (Valentinus, for example, mostly wrote his works based on acceptable canon of the time).

Most of what we consider “Gnostic Gospels” today came from the neo-Platonists in Egypt who believed in an extremely distant God (or the One) who emanated thoughts that formed creation. They tended to borrow heavily from Persian religions, especially Zoarastrianism.

Then you have the Cathars who were dualists (like the Manichaens) who believed in two Gods, one evil and one good. They saw all of the material world as reprehensibly evil and only the spiritual as good.

The only one close to Christianity is probably Valentinus, but his beliefs were heretical as well. Much like the Arians, who were Christians, but still heretics.
 
There are different schools of Gnostic thought…for years “gnostic” was an umbrella the proto-orthodox used to denote Christians who didn’t follow the growing body of doctrine that finally became embraced by the church of Rome.
 
Gnosticism is a heresy, therefore the term “Gnostic Christian” has no meaning.
 
tundramom said:
What exactly IS a Gnostic Christian? Is this someone who follows the Gnostic gospels? 🤷
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I’m speaking from memory here, based on what readings I’ve done about the Gnostics.

The term “Gnostic” comes from the word “Gnosis”, which means knowledge… or rather, direct, experiential knowledge.

In addition to having their own version of the Bible (which you mention), they had other beliefs as well. Their core belief was that salvation wasn’t gained through faith, good works, or any combination of the things within today’s spectrum of Christianity, but was gained through direct experiential knowledge (i.e. gnosis) of God.

They also believed that only a relatively small number of people had been endowed by God with the ability to experience gnosis. Those without this “gift” could gain reward after death by living according to the teachings of the Bible (or at least, the Gnostic version of the Bible), but the ultimate reward in Heaven was reserved for those who had “gnosis” of God.

Gnostics were effectively wiped out early in the history of Christianity. Since their beliefs were viewed as heretical by the other groups at the time (and likely today as well), they were not preserved by the mainstream Church.
 
Apherius said:
Probably not to you, but I am interested in hearing the answer to the question.
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The answer to the question posed is that there is no definition for a Gnostic Christian.

A complete different question is “what is Gnosticism”.
 
In addition to having their own version of the Bible (which you mention), they had other beliefs as well. Their core belief was that salvation wasn’t gained through faith, good works, or any combination of the things within today’s spectrum of Christianity, but was gained through direct experiential knowledge (i.e. gnosis) of God.
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True, and Lapsed does a good job also of defining gnosis which in true Greek fashion is a specific type of knowledge.

It should also be mentioned that God, or the concept of God, in Gnosticism, was very much distant from mankind. The One is not really comparable to the God of Abraham as He is represented in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. In Gnosticism it is really not plausible for God to be so close to humanity as to actually interact with us.

That’s why there is the Demiurge. This was the god who allegedly created the world and handled the material aspects (i.e. sins of the flesh). This was especially important to the Egyptian gnostics (these are the ones you think of with all the Gnostic Gospels) and to latter day gnostics such as the Cathars.
Gnostics were effectively wiped out early in the history of Christianity. Since their beliefs were viewed as heretical by the other groups at the time (and likely today as well), they were not preserved by the mainstream Church.
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I’m not sure I completely agree. I think the dualism of gnosticism survived in some part in some of the Protestant faiths of today.
 
tundramom said:
So as not to derail the “Persiphone” thread, I have a question for Gnosis, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

What exactly IS a Gnostic Christian? Is this someone who follows the Gnostic gospels? 🤷

in Christ
Steph
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Gnostic Christian is an oxymoron. Gnostic is one religion, Christianity another. Other than gnostics co-opting certain Christian traditions and usages as its own, they are not compatible. Gnostic gospels are heretical writings of the gnostics, they are not and never were Christian works or testimony.
 
1ke said:
Gnosticism is a heresy, therefore the term “Gnostic Christian” has no meaning.
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A “heresy” as defined by the proto-orthodox, those who claimed to be “Gnostic Christians” defined themselves as Christian…
 
Publisher said:
A “heresy” as defined by the proto-orthodox, those who claimed to be “Gnostic Christians” defined themselves as Christian…
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Them saying it doesn’t make it so. Those espousing Gnostic beliefs are not Christians, and have never been.

It’s as nonsensical as saying one is a Bhuddist Christian or a Muslim Christian.

Gnosticism is a set of beliefs incompatible with Christianity.
 
Well, you may be right…but maybe not…it is your opinion…those who were called “Gnostic” did in fact worship along side the proto-orthodox…they did hold positions of authority…priests, deacons, and bishops…they considered themselves Christians, baptized as Christians, worshipped as Christians…true, the proto-orthodox labeled them heretics…Christian heretics.
 
tundramom said:
So as not to derail the “Persiphone” thread, I have a question for Gnosis, and anyone else who wants to chime in.

What exactly IS a Gnostic Christian? Is this someone who follows the Gnostic gospels? 🤷

in Christ
Steph
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Hi Steph,

Yes there are Gnostic Christians. Here is a link to one of their churches in Southern California. While this is not the only one it is the most overt Christian one that I know of.
gnosis.org/gnostsoc/ecclesia.htm

Anastasia
 
Thanks all of you for your answers. I do understand more now.

in Christ
Steph
 
This is wild speculation on my part, but…

I know that “gnostic,” in the historical sense, generally refers to (often Christian) cults that typically believe in some sort of pantheistic version of Christianity that allows for a demiurge to create the illusion of reality independently from the so called “prime source.”

However, I would imagine that the vast majority of so-called “gnostic Christians” today have beliefs that generally derive from the concepts in the Book of Thomas.

Speaking of which, what do you guys think of the Book of Thomas (also Nag Hammadi and burried urns and what not.)
 
faelpsanfeel said:
This is wild speculation on my part, but…

However, I would imagine that the vast majority of so-called “gnostic Christians” today have beliefs that generally derive from the concepts in the Book of Thomas.

Speaking of which, what do you guys think of the Book of Thomas (also Nag Hammadi and burried urns and what not.)
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Well, you would be incorect on your speculation. Modern Gnostics both the Christian and the pagan variety do use the Book of Thomas but it is not primarily derived from just one source alone. The Nag Hammadi has many books within it. the Bruce Codex is an important text as well. It is over simplistic to lump all modern Gnostic together. Think of Gnosis as the direct knowlege of the Divine. There are as many paths to that as there are Gnostics. Just as Buddhism has three major schools and then within each school there are different teachers that lived long ago and those teachings are carried on from one person to the next. So it is with Gnosis. In Catholisism think in terms of the Franciscans monks and how they differ from the Benedictine monks. Or perhaps a better way is to look at the main stream Church vrs the Pope Pius X parishes.

Of course by now you have figured out that I do enjoy my Nag Hammadi Library and other Gnostic Texts a lot. I am paticulay fond of The Hymn of the Pearl, The Gospel of Phillip and Thunder Perfect Miind. It was however the Gospel of Thomas that first peaked my interest in such readings.

Anastasia
 
SororAnastasia said:
Well, you would be incorect on your speculation. Modern Gnostics both the Christian and the pagan variety do use the Book of Thomas but it is not primarily derived from just one source alone. The Nag Hammadi has many books within it. the Bruce Codex is an important text as well. It is over simplistic to lump all modern Gnostic together. Think of Gnosis as the direct knowlege of the Divine. There are as many paths to that as there are Gnostics. Just as Buddhism has three major schools and then within each school there are different teachers that lived long ago and those teachings are carried on from one person to the next. So it is with Gnosis. In Catholisism think in terms of the Franciscans monks and how they differ from the Benedictine monks. Or perhaps a better way is to look at the main stream Church vrs the Pope Pius X parishes.

Of course by now you have figured out that I do enjoy my Nag Hammadi Library and other Gnostic Texts a lot. I am paticulay fond of The Hymn of the Pearl, The Gospel of Phillip and Thunder Perfect Miind. It was however the Gospel of Thomas that first peaked my interest in such readings.

Anastasia
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I’ll have to look into some of those other books. Thanks for the info.

I’m pretty sure the spirit of my original post was pretty dead-on however. I used the phrase “derives from the concepts found within” for a reason. Sorry to bring it up, but you just matter-of-factly told me I was wrong and then you went on describe how I’m actually partially right, so I at least get 50% for that portion of my post.

And then the other half of my post addressing the fact that the word “gnostic” no long implies what it used to is worth at least 90% percent. So that means I pass with a 70 😉

Not to take away from your extremely informative post which is worth at least 100% and probably deserves a fair amount of extra credit.
 
faelpsanfeel said:
I’ll have to look into some of those other books. Thanks for the info.

So that means I pass with a 70 😉

Not to take away from your extremely informative post which is worth at least 100% and probably deserves a fair amount of extra credit.
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😃 😃 😛
Too funny, I didn’t know it was a quiz. But then I am an ordained Gnostic Priest so I might know a thing of two about it that others might not.

Pax,
Anastasia
 
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