Definitive Roman Catholic positions

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

trumpet152:

Hey Matt! It’s good to have you here! Personally, I love books by Peter Kreeft, especially Fundementals of the Faith.

I was wondering when someone would get to Peter Kreeft (one of my favorites)!

First of all, welcome to the forum Matt…I know I’m a little late, but it’s the thought that counts

Now, about Peter Kreeft. Since you are on a quest for knowledge (and that can get expensive ) I want to give you the link to his site.

He has tons of free articles/essays as well as downloadable audio files. This has been a great resource for me since I can’t afford to buy every book I want and my local library is pretty limited in the Catholic stuff.

peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm

that is for the articles, but on the left there will be a link to the audio. My husband has most of them on his ipod so he can keep learning no matter where he is (he’s in the military).

I hope that is helpful to you…it’s great to see how open you are and how polite your posts are. Very refreshing!

Malia

 

[Matt14]

Hi Malia, thank you for the welcome, and for the link. I ran across Kreeft’s name somewhere today, and I will certainly bookmark that link to refer to later.

I’m glad your husband is constantly learning. I feel this is important as well, and I take very seriously the parting words of Peter’s first epistle:

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
2Pe 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Thanks again.

 

[Sherlock]

Hi Matt,

Another book of Karl Keating’s that I would recommend is “Fundamentalism and Catholicism”. Ott’s “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” is excellent—I’m glad you’re getting it. If you have questions about the papacy, Steve Ray’s “Upon This Rock” is very good.

I’ll second the recommendations already given of Peter Kreeft and Chesterton. Chesterton’s “The Everlasting Man” was instrumental in the conversion from atheism of C.S. Lewis, and his “Orthodoxy” is a must-read. (Of course, in the interests of full disclosure I must admit to being a Chesterton fan, and am going tonight to our local Chesterton Society’s monthly meeting…)

 

[Matt14]

Matt14:

Hi Malia, thank you for the welcome, and for the link. I ran across Kreeft’s name somewhere today, and I will certainly bookmark that link to refer to later.

I’m glad your husband is constantly learning. I feel this is important as well, and I take very seriously the parting words of Peter’s first epistle:

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,
2Pe 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Thanks again.

I meant second epistle, of course. There’s no edit button!

 

[Matt14]

Sherlock:

Hi Matt,

Another book of Karl Keating’s that I would recommend is “Fundamentalism and Catholicism”. Ott’s “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” is excellent—I’m glad you’re getting it. If you have questions about the papacy, Steve Ray’s “Upon This Rock” is very good.

I’ll second the recommendations already given of Peter Kreeft and Chesterton. Chesterton’s “The Everlasting Man” was instrumental in the conversion from atheism of C.S. Lewis, and his “Orthodoxy” is a must-read. (Of course, in the interests of full disclosure I must admit to being a Chesterton fan, and am going tonight to our local Chesterton Society’s monthly meeting…)

Excellent, thanks for the recommendations. I’ll look out for Keating’s other book, when I’ve read these others. I’m going to try to actually read the entire catechism before I get into too many more.

The Chesterton book sounds interesting. I may try to find that at a library.

Thanks again!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Matt14:

Hi everyone,

I’m new around here. I’m not catholic, and I consider myself a Christian only. I signed up mostly with the intent to ask this one question, but I may stick around a while, if everyone is okay with that.

I’ve had lots of discussions with catholics, and I’ve read even more discussions. Probably the most common complaint I hear from catholics against protestants during these discussions is that the protestant doesn’t really understand catholic doctrine.

Often I’ll see a protestant quote from a catholic source, or cite instances of worship practices, but the catholic will often respond that these sources are not definitive catholic positions.

So, my question is:

If I was going to have a discussion with you, a catholic, what sources would you consider definitive for me to cite in order to "get it right?"

The last thing I want to do is have an incomplete or improper understanding of catholic doctrine when I discuss with catholics. Help me not to be offensive!

in Christ,

Matt14

If you wanted to know about doctrine before 1994 (when the CCC was first published), the Catechism of the Council of Trent (first published in 1566) would be a fair source to quote - provided it was supplemented, as and when necessary, by various Papal letters defining, or settling the interpretation of, dogmas and doctrines.

Catechisms authorised by bishops - such as the Baltimore Catechism - are of no authority outside that part of the Universal Church for which they are intended; so English Catholics, who form a particular Church within the Universal Church which is not under the jurisdiction of the US Catholic bishops, do not use the Baltimore Catechism. Both, however, use the CCC, which is for the Universal Church, rather than for a part of it only.

The liturgical books of the Church express its faith - so you could refer the Missal of 1570, and the reformed Missal of 1969; as well as to the other liturgical books, such as the Liturgy of the Hours.

The teaching office of the Church, her magisterium, is exercised principally by:

• The Pope in person
• The Pope acting through the Roman Congregations & other dicasteries - IOW, through the Roman Curia
• the Bishops throughout the world, in union with the Pope as the head of the College of Bishops - separated from him, they have no authority as bishops, reliable as their teaching may otherwise be.

The dogmatic definitions of the ecumenical Councils are a guide to what is believed - they are of greater authority than the teaching of provincial councils, such as that of Cologne in 1860 or Westminster in 1852.

As the Church is not confined to the Roman Rite, the councils and teachings of other Rites and Catholic Churches should also be consulted.

I’m afraid that quoting sources tends to be a massive paper-chase

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Matt14:

If I was going to have a discussion with you, a catholic, what sources would you consider definitive for me to cite in order to "get it right?"

I have a better idea…don’t try to tell practicing Catholics what we believe. The Bible is definitive, but history has shown that simply citing is doesn’t guarantee that one will “get it right.”

If you have a quesiton about our Catholic Faith. Simply ask.

Even the Ethiopian Eunuch from Sacred Scripture needed a teacher. Catholicism is best taught by people, not merely books.

 

[Tonks40]

Hi Matt & Roadrunner -

While you’re reading all the wonderful sources suggested on this thread, and things get a little confusing, may I suggest posting a question in the “Ask An Apologist” section of this forum. They give pretty solid answers to many of the questions about the Catholic faith we all have.

Welcome & God Bless!

 

[misterX]

Matt14:

Hi everyone,
. I’m not catholic, and I consider myself a Christian only.

Matt14

Hi
I’m catholic, and i consider us as the only christians
way to go guys help him evangilize more misguided catholics

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Hi Matt,

Pick up a copy of “We Believe - A Survey of the Catholic Faith” from the Catholic Home Study Service. It is open to anyone and the materials are free of charge. It is an apostolate ran by Father Oscar Lukefahr from Missouri. It is cross-referenced to the Catechism of the Catholic Church in a ‘readers digest’ format and addresses the main points of Catholicism. It’s a simple study course, and when you are done filling in your answers, you can send it in via the Internet or thru mail and they will send you back a copy of what you got right. “By What Authority” by Mark P Shea is also a good reference. Also, the papal encyclicals available from vatican.va are also a good reference. Here’s a link to John Paul II’s encyclicals.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

misterX:

Hi
I’m catholic, and i consider us as the only christians
way to go guys help him evangilize more misguided catholics

I’m sorry brother, but you’re wrong. Anyone who professes the Trinity is a Christian. We need to evangelize, but we also need to remember that we do have brothers & sisters who aren’t yet in the fullness of Truth. Your position definitely isn’t a Catholic one.

 

[Matt14]

itsjustdave1988:

I have a better idea…don’t try to tell practicing Catholics what we believe.

That’s exactly the intent of this thread, to find definitive catholic sources about your faith and practice.

The Bible is definitive, but history has shown that simply citing is doesn’t guarantee that one will “get it right.”

I know. I wasn’t asking about the Bible, but rather catholic documents.

If you have a quesiton about our Catholic Faith. Simply ask.

Even the Ethiopian Eunuch from Sacred Scripture needed a teacher. Catholicism is best taught by people, not merely books.

The problem here is that I’ve asked questions of catholics, and received good answers, but then later when I speak to another catholic, they sometimes say that the earlier catholic I spoke to “didn’t quite have it right,” or “didn’t explain it well.” Therefore, I’m seeking “official” church positions in writing.

Thanks for your suggestions!

 

[Matt14]

Tonks40:

Hi Matt & Roadrunner -

While you’re reading all the wonderful sources suggested on this thread, and things get a little confusing, may I suggest posting a question in the “Ask An Apologist” section of this forum. They give pretty solid answers to many of the questions about the Catholic faith we all have.

Welcome & God Bless!

That’s a good suggestion. Do they allow you to respond in there? I read somewhere that sometimes they are real busy and don’t answer quickly. But, I will take your advice is things get confusing. Thanks!

 

[Matt14]

misterX:

Hi
I’m catholic, and i consider us as the only christians

That’s your right, I reckon. God bless you.

way to go guys help him evangilize more misguided catholics

Now, why would a catholic be misguided, as you say?

And do you make a practice of withholding love and friendship from non-catholics? Not to mention discouraging catholics from pointing me in the direction of sources that say what the catholic church truly teaches?

Or would you rather me not have an honest understanding of what you believe?

Most of you guys are really helpful and friendly, but there’s a hint of paranoia in a few. I’m sorry if you’ve been mistreated by non-catholics in the past. But I’m not that kind of man. I am a man of God, and knowledge of Him is all I seek.

Again, may God bless you richly.

 

[RyanL]

Matt14:

… Therefore, I’m seeking “official” church positions in writing…

Matt14,

If you ask us about a particular doctrine/dogma, we can point you to the specific encyclical or section of the CCC and explain why it is either binding or not. Typically, most American Catholics haven’t read the encyclicals (or even the majority of the CCC). Their understanding may not be the Church’s understanding, in the fullness of the word.

So…if you have questions about, say, Mary, just ask and we will tell you when the particular issue has been addressed, if it was addressed difinitively, or if it has been addressed at all. Example: Mary’s death. It hasn’t been difinitively addressed, but some hold to her never dying and some hold to her having passed away. We may believe either case, but neither case is binding - even though both have been addressed. Another example: Mary’s eating meat vs. being a vegetarian. The Church has never addressed this at all, therefore we are free to believe what we would like. Final example: The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin. This was difinitively setteled with the issuance of Munificentissimus Deus.

Does that help?

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Matt14]

Semper Fi:

Hi Matt,

Pick up a copy of “We Believe - A Survey of the Catholic Faith” from the Catholic Home Study Service. It is open to anyone and the materials are free of charge. It is an apostolate ran by Father Oscar Lukefahr from Missouri. It is cross-referenced to the Catechism of the Catholic Church in a ‘readers digest’ format and addresses the main points of Catholicism. It’s a simple study course, and when you are done filling in your answers, you can send it in via the Internet or thru mail and they will send you back a copy of what you got right. “By What Authority” by Mark P Shea is also a good reference. Also, the papal encyclicals available from vatican.va are also a good reference. Here’s a link to John Paul II’s encyclicals.

Hi SemperFi, thanks for the links. That’s a really good idea, to have those free studies available like that. I like the variety of studies. I’ll look into those.

Thx again.

 

[RyanL]

Matt14:

Now, why would a catholic be misguided, as you say?

I think what he was trying to say was that all Christians are Catholic, whether they know it or not. That being the case, some Catholics (who label themselves as “Protestants” or “Orthodox”) are misguided by not having the fullness of revealed truth. Those Catholics, he would assert, need to be evangelized and brought back to the fullness of truth.

I think…

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Matt14]

RyanL:

Matt14,

If you ask us about a particular doctrine/dogma, we can point you to the specific encyclical or section of the CCC and explain why it is either binding or not. Typically, most American Catholics haven’t read the encyclicals (or even the majority of the CCC). Their understanding may not be the Church’s understanding, in the fullness of the word.

So…if you have questions about, say, Mary, just ask and we will tell you when the particular issue has been addressed, if it was addressed difinitively, or if it has been addressed at all. Example: Mary’s death. It hasn’t been difinitively addressed, but some hold to her never dying and some hold to her having passed away. We may believe either case, but neither case is binding - even though both have been addressed. Another example: Mary’s eating meat vs. being a vegetarian. The Church has never addressed this at all, therefore we are free to believe what we would like. Final example: The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin. This was difinitively setteled with the issuance of Munificentissimus Deus.

Does that help?

God Bless,
RyanL

A little, thanks! But what I’m really interested in is core doctrine.

I sorta assumed that a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church would pretty much define what is believed and taught. However, one catholic told me that the CCC was open to interpretation.

I’m feeling a little confused on what is definitive, I guess. Do you considere the CCC definitive?

 

[Bob_Rowland]

I would suggest that you read the documents of the doctrinal Council of Trent,The Faith of Millions that may now be hard to find, and the Baltimore Catechism. I will have more specific information next Monday after I verify it on the weekend.

 

[Matt14]

RyanL:

I think what he was trying to say was that all Christians are Catholic, whether they know it or not. That being the case, some Catholics (who label themselves as “Protestants” or “Orthodox”) are misguided by not having the fullness of revealed truth. Those Catholics, he would assert, need to be evangelized and brought back to the fullness of truth.

I think…

God Bless,
RyanL

Not sure. Perhaps he was being sarcastic and saying I was soley trying to evangelize you guys.

I’m only interested in truth. When it comes to service to God and our eternal souls, we must devote ourselves to truth. If catholicism is true, then that’s where we need to be. But if it’s not, then I need to know why. Therefore, I’m seeking sources.