Defintion of Traditonal Catholic

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Ohwesty said:
A traditional Catholic - *in the post-conciliar sense *- is a Catholic who wants the Mass, all sacraments and rites, and catechesis, restored to how they were before Vatican II.

It could entail more depending on the individual, but, generally speaking and in a nutshell, I’d say that’s it.
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SCG from FE ? That you ?
 
Big check, I’m with you Tim.
Timothysis said:
A “traditional” Catholic is someone who was baptized into the Church, confirmed, and practices the faith as taught by Christ, the Pope, bishops and the Church.

It doesn’t make one iota of difference if a person prays in latin or attends the latin Mass exclusively; a traditional Catholic is one who practices the faith of the Catholic Church.
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WhollyRoamin said:
None of these posts are very good answers.

A traditional Catholic is not a person who “prefers” the old Latin Mass. Neither are they people simply passed Catechism class.

They are people who adhere to a type of spirituality that is largely lost in the 21st Century Catholic Church.

Truthfully, it’s easier to describe their outward signs than their character: the old Latin Mass is the biggest identifier… though there are certainly traditional Catholics who are marooned in Novus Ordoland; there are likewise non-traditional Catholics who go to the TLM.

Trads are people who listen to Catholic Radio… skeptically. They might have a blog. They can list their “top-five” favorite Ecumenical Councils… none of which will rhyme with “Attican Shoe”. Their friends think they’re fuddy-duddys. They’ve got Holy Water fonts in all the bedrooms and by the front door. They quote the Douay Rheims bible. They have an opinion on offering Mass in baroque vestments while in a gothic chapel. They’re tired of tinfoil hat jokes. They may not like Bishop Williamson, but concede that sometimes he’s right, and when he’s right, he’s really right. They can tell you about Assisi. When they’re at a Novus Ordo Mass, they’ve got their hands folded like a Catholic during the Our Father. The women have an extra mantilla in the van-- just in case. The men have an opinion on the best type of pipe tobacco for any occasion. The boys have their own cassock and surplice hanging in the closet. The girls know how to play Dies Irae on the organ. They wear a t-shirt while they go swimming so their brown scapular doesen’t float away. They’re willing to drive an hour to go to Mass… every Sunday. They know the confession times of at least 4 churches. They invite priests over to play cards and smoke cigars. They pray to saints that you think may not really exist. They ask you to finish the sentence when you say “John Paul the Great”… the great what? They might own a live chicken. When they’re at a Novus Ordo Mass, everyone watches them to figure out why they’re hitting themselves during the “Lamb of God”. They’re kneel after Mass to pray… and miss out on the fun gladhanding with Father by the parish gift shop. They scoff when they pass the Masonic Lodge. They cross themselves when they pass a Catholic church. They mutter something about the “poor souls” when they pass a cemetary. They mutter something about St. Michael when an ambulance passes them. Their girls’ first names are Mary. Their boys’ middle names are Mary. Cappa Magma doesn’t sound like a drink at Starbucks to them. They’ll tell you at length why being “charitable” isn’t always being nice and friendly.

It’s complicated. Trads are not easily defined. You just kind of know them when you see them.
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well then its official, im a traditionalist, unfortunately my husband wouldnt let me name my son john mary though! but my daughters are mary, bernadette, and genevieve
 
WhollyRoamin said:
None of these posts are very good answers.

A traditional Catholic is not a person who “prefers” the old Latin Mass. Neither are they people simply passed Catechism class.

They are people who adhere to a type of spirituality that is largely lost in the 21st Century Catholic Church.

Truthfully, it’s easier to describe their outward signs than their character: the old Latin Mass is the biggest identifier… though there are certainly traditional Catholics who are marooned in Novus Ordoland; there are likewise non-traditional Catholics who go to the TLM.

Trads are people who listen to Catholic Radio… skeptically. They might have a blog. They can list their “top-five” favorite Ecumenical Councils… none of which will rhyme with “Attican Shoe”. Their friends think they’re fuddy-duddys. They’ve got Holy Water fonts in all the bedrooms and by the front door. They quote the Douay Rheims bible. They have an opinion on offering Mass in baroque vestments while in a gothic chapel. They’re tired of tinfoil hat jokes. They may not like Bishop Williamson, but concede that sometimes he’s right, and when he’s right, he’s really right. They can tell you about Assisi. When they’re at a Novus Ordo Mass, they’ve got their hands folded like a Catholic during the Our Father. The women have an extra mantilla in the van-- just in case. The men have an opinion on the best type of pipe tobacco for any occasion. The boys have their own cassock and surplice hanging in the closet. The girls know how to play Dies Irae on the organ. They wear a t-shirt while they go swimming so their brown scapular doesen’t float away. They’re willing to drive an hour to go to Mass… every Sunday. They know the confession times of at least 4 churches. They invite priests over to play cards and smoke cigars. They pray to saints that you think may not really exist. They ask you to finish the sentence when you say “John Paul the Great”… the great what? They might own a live chicken. When they’re at a Novus Ordo Mass, everyone watches them to figure out why they’re hitting themselves during the “Lamb of God”. They’re kneel after Mass to pray… and miss out on the fun gladhanding with Father by the parish gift shop. They scoff when they pass the Masonic Lodge. They cross themselves when they pass a Catholic church. They mutter something about the “poor souls” when they pass a cemetary. They mutter something about St. Michael when an ambulance passes them. Their girls’ first names are Mary. Their boys’ middle names are Mary. Cappa Magma doesn’t sound like a drink at Starbucks to them. They’ll tell you at length why being “charitable” isn’t always being nice and friendly.

It’s complicated. Trads are not easily defined. You just kind of know them when you see them.
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CradleCath:
Sorry, I reposted your great description of a Traditional Catholic, Wholly Roamin, but my part of the message must have been lost somewhere in cyberspace when I sent it. Just wanted to say that…if you don’t write for a living, you should. What a GREAT
description.
 
Would one ever use “Traditional Catholic” and “orthodox Catholic” interchangebly?
 
JW55 said:
Would one ever use “Traditional Catholic” and “orthodox Catholic” interchangebly?/QUOTE

orthodox: conforming to established doctrine especially in religion b : CONVENTIONAL

You sure could use those words interchangebly.
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JW55 said:
Would one ever use “Traditional Catholic” and “orthodox Catholic” interchangebly?
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The bottom line is that there isn’t any magisterial definition of “traditional Catholic”, so I guess one can do whatever he wants with the phrase. However, it’s a bit much when certain Catholics, orthodox though they may be, keep calling themselves “traditional” when in fact they have gone along with a whole host of novelties that have eventually won Vatican approval. So in essence their definition of “traditional” is “whatever the Vatican happens to be saying at this very moment”, which itself is not a traditional view to take. It ends up with absurdities: a novelty like Communion in the hand is a shameful breach of Catholic traditional practice one minute, then the next (after the Pope gives approval) presto! it’s “traditional”. Altar girls? Oh that’s not a novelty, that’s traditional–the Pope approved it. Translating pro multis as “for all”? That’s traditional because the Vatican approved it, oh, whoops, now it’s not traditional because now the Vatican disapproves it. The common thread is that the traditionalist was consistently saying all along that these novelties weren’t traditional.

The “whatever the Vatican says today” view ends up voiding the Catholic Tradition of any objective content. And that’s not traditional. 😉
 
DavidPalm said:
JW55;4664268:
Would one ever use “Traditional Catholic” and “orthodox Catholic” interchangebly?
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The bottom line is that there isn’t any magisterial definition of “traditional Catholic”, so I guess one can do whatever he wants with the phrase. However, it’s a bit much when certain Catholics, orthodox though they may be, keep calling themselves “traditional” when in fact they have gone along with a whole host of novelties that have eventually won Vatican approval. So in essence their definition of “traditional” is “whatever the Vatican happens to be saying at this very moment”, which itself is not a traditional view to take. It ends up with absurdities: a novelty like Communion in the hand is a shameful breach of Catholic traditional practice one minute, then the next (after the Pope gives approval) presto! it’s “traditional”. Altar girls? Oh that’s not a novelty, that’s traditional–the Pope approved it. Translating pro multis as “for all”? That’s traditional because the Vatican approved it, oh, whoops, now it’s not traditional because now the Vatican disapproves it. The common thread is that the traditionalist was consistently saying all along that these novelties weren’t traditional.
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Well, I wouldn’t equate orthodox and “Traditional” (Traditionalist.)
Not all orthodox Catholics are Traditionalists and not all Traditionalists are orthodox.

My private opinion is that Communion in the hand is not conducive to the sort of reverence that one would like to see surrounding the Eucharist- however I don’t deny that the see of Peter has the authority to dictate matters of discipline and this is a discipline it has approved.

I have all sorts of problems with the ICEL translation of the Ordo Missae and all sorts of problems with the translations one finds in some pre-Vatican II missals; I greatly prefer Latin to translations.

There are plenty of Catholics, (including many on this board) like myself, who hold the traditions of the Church in esteem, but have no preference for the TLM and no penchant for 20th century spirituality and customs.

I would call myself, and those like me traditional, not Traditionalist, Catholics.
 
Believing that Trent, Vatican I and the Baltimore Catechism are still valid.
 
DavidPalm said:
The bottom line is that there isn’t any magisterial definition of “traditional Catholic”, so I guess one can do whatever he wants with the phrase. However, it’s a bit much when certain Catholics, orthodox though they may be, keep calling themselves “traditional” when in fact they have gone along with a whole host of novelties that have eventually won Vatican approval. So in essence their definition of “traditional” is “whatever the Vatican happens to be saying at this very moment”, which itself is not a traditional view to take. It ends up with absurdities: a novelty like Communion in the hand is a shameful breach of Catholic traditional practice one minute, then the next (after the Pope gives approval) presto! it’s “traditional”. Altar girls? Oh that’s not a novelty, that’s traditional–the Pope approved it. Translating pro multis as “for all”? That’s traditional because the Vatican approved it, oh, whoops, now it’s not traditional because now the Vatican disapproves it. The common thread is that the traditionalist was consistently saying all along that these novelties weren’t traditional.

The “whatever the Vatican says today” view ends up voiding the Catholic Tradition of any objective content. And that’s not traditional. 😉
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👍
 
QUOTE=peregrinator_it;4664627]Well, I wouldn’t equate orthodox and “Traditional” (Traditionalist.)
Not all orthodox Catholics are Traditionalists and not all Traditionalists are orthodox.
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I think that defining “traditional” Catholics is just a word game. We know who we are & I think that most liberal/moderate/etc. Catholics know who we are. If not, just go back & read Wholly Roamin’s definition. 😉
My private opinion is that Communion in the hand is not conducive to the sort of reverence that one would like to see surrounding the Eucharist- however I don’t deny that the see of Peter has the authority to dictate matters of discipline and this is a discipline it has approved.
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Again, as a Traditional Catholic, I agree with you. I would like to see the indult re CITH abrogated. One of the ways to know who is a traditional Catholic & who isn’t…is to ask said Catholic how CITH came to be. A true traditional/orthodox Catholic will know.
I have all sorts of problems with the ICEL translation of the Ordo Missae and all sorts of problems with the translations one finds in some pre-Vatican II missals; I greatly prefer Latin to translations.
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As do I.
There are plenty of Catholics, (including many on this board) like myself, who hold the traditions of the Church in esteem, but have no preference for the TLM and no penchant for 20th century spirituality and customs.
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I would call myself, and those like me traditional, not Traditionalist, Catholics.
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Once again, the words that people use do not really matter. As for the rest of your statement, have you attended the Tridentine Mass? Just wondering, because your beliefs seem to fall in line with Catholicism of the Ages…which is what I like to call traditional Catholicism. It embraces all of Scripture & Tradition that has been taught, revered, defined since Christ founded His Church.
 
CradleCath said:
Once again, the words that people use do not really matter. As for the rest of your statement, have you attended the Tridentine Mass? Just wondering, because your beliefs seem to fall in line with Catholicism of the Ages…which is what I like to call traditional Catholicism. It embraces all of Scripture & Tradition that has been taught, revered, defined since Christ founded His Church.
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I have attended variously TLM High Masses, Missae Cantatae, Dialogue Masses and Low Masses. I attended a TLM Low Mass several times a week for four years as a part of a former job (long story.)

My liturgical preference is for the Pauline Mass in Latin.

I think only Eastern Catholics will appreciate my main reason for this preference (ask an Eastern Catholic how he/she would feel about not chanting the Divine Liturgy!)

I am unwilling to give up the privilege of chanting the responses as long as it is allowed to me (not just chanting the Ordinary whilst the priest has moved four prayers ahead; truly responding in prayer to the prayers of the liturgy.) And I am unwilling to give up the privilege of hearing the prayers of the priest.

To me, chanting the mass is mode of prayer- like chanting the Office- and one that is particularly effective. I would not go so far as to say chanted prayer is integral to liturgical (public) prayer, but sometimes I am tempted to do so.

I also, frankly, prefer the simplified (Latin don’t go citing the current wretched ICEL translation) prayers of the Ordinary Form and am grateful for the new lectionary-- especially the opportunity to hear more of the Old Testament and (especially, especially) pray an entire Psalm at Mass.

If I had to attend a TLM, I would prefer a dialogue Mass.

As you point out, however, it is quite possible to reverence the same traditions that Traditionalists do and not have the same preferences in terms of liturgy or spirituality.

Frankly, I know quite a few people (the majority of my friends and family) who largely share the outlook described by WhollyRoaminCatholic except in regard to liturgical preference and spirituality.

Hence, I am convinced that there is such a thing as a traditional, not Traditionalist, Catholic.
 
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