Defunding Planned Parenthood. Will it succeed?

[Sherry_G]

And you may not be making this point, bbarick, but I still argue that it is not the contraception – or its “mentality” – that is a separate factor that enables the later abortion. Why? Because married women in the U.S. overall – which includes Catholics both practicing and non-practicing, faithful to Church teaching and not – use contraception at an even greater rate than those who have procured abortions do. Therefore, it is not the big bad evil Contraception monster that is “causing” aboritons. It’s promiscuous unmarried sex with all kinds of contraceptive behavior (zero use, intermittent use, and possibly more consistent use) that is the most prominent cause of abortion in the U.S. Almost half (46%) of women obtaining abortions used no contraception in the month during which they became pregnant (in a study popularly cited on CAF); and statistically those would have to be largely unmarried women because, again, those are the source of the highest abortion figures in this country.

Hens and chickens argument…bottom line is the attitude being fostered by the evil forces at work is that sex is for pleasure only. We are all just beasts here and only live for the momentary pleasures of the flesh. Why argue about whether contraceptives induced the exagerrated proclivity for sexual sin or whether the magnification of fleshly activities as the be all and end all of humanity produced as an aid the advance of contraception. Planned parenthoods focus and their aim is for more abortion, more abortion, more abortion as it swell the bottom line and does the greatest harm to humanity by killing us off in the womb. Planned parenthood is a misnomer. Planned infanticide is the best name for this organization.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Hens and chickens argument…bottom line is the attitude being fostered by the evil forces at work is that sex is for pleasure only. We are all just beasts here and only live for the momentary pleasures of the flesh. Why argue about whether contraceptives induced the exagerrated proclivity for sexual sin or whether the magnification of fleshly activities as the be all and end all of humanity produced as an aid the advance of contraception. Planned parenthoods focus and their aim is for more abortion, more abortion, more abortion as it swell the bottom line and does the greatest harm to humanity by killing us off in the womb. Planned parenthood is a misnomer. Planned infanticide is the best name for this organization.

I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me, Sherry. I’m not the one who pushes the premise that contraception is the root of abortion. I’m not the one who introduced “contraceptive mentality” into the thread, whose title is Defunding Planned Parenthood. My premise is that the attachment to fornication is the root of abortion, and my premise is demonstrated in the research about abortion statistics in this country. Ease of acquiring contraception (including for minors) makes fornication-without-commitment more attractive and easier, no question. I made this point earlier on other threads and will continue to make it. There was a not-too-distant time in the 20th century when even condoms were not over-the-counter. They had to be requested from behind the counter.

I stated on an earlier thread last week that I’m completely in favor of defunding the abortion business from PP. Also in favor of pulling federal funds from any aspect of national insurance coverage in which the insurer in question funds abortions. All abortions should be privately paid for, preferably expensive, and with the male and female paying equally. I’m in favor of keeping the screenings for STD’s as a public health matter and as a red flag to the promiscuous to knock off the promiscuity.

 

[Personanongrata]

If you have some good points as to why we should support PP I would like to know since you haven’t specified what services we should be supporting PP for.

I bring up Margaret Sanger since she is the founder of PP and because of that PP holds her values.

I have provided some reasons not to support PP. I am interest in hearing your points as to why we should be supporting PP.

Honestly, I am not interested in discussing Margaret Sanger, simply because she is dead, and IMO not relevant to PP of today. I don’t believe that PP holds her values, as if they ever really did.

I personally know women who use health care via Planned Parenthood. Birth control, mammograms and some get prenatal as well. I support PP because of these women. “Sound bites” re: Sanger mean nothing to me.

You are allowed to have your own opinion. I have mine.

 

[spunjalebi]

Why can’t we support private charitable organizations that offer these same services to women, instead of supporting an organization that pays for abortions?

 

[Labarum]

Why can’t we support private charitable organizations that offer these same services to women, instead of supporting an organization that pays for abortions?

I second that.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

Married women on contraception having less abortions would be obvious. If they get pregnant it’s not quite as much of a shocker. My wife and I couldn’t afford another child right now, but if she got pregnant, we’d make a way.

However, unmarried women/girls on contraception I would think have a higher chance of being promiscuous, and not paying attention to a certain antibiotic or whatever have sex and get pregnant. The contraception itself does give a somewhat false sense of security.

I’m just rambling, but I have been following the MTV shows. And there was a girl who went through an abortion on TV. Then they brough two other girls that had abortions and made comments about not listening to the public that there was nothing wrong with an abortion.

I think through contraception and this reality tv sensation that has many teens/tweens wanting to be on tv at all costs is damaging to our society and has an impact on the number of abortions as well.

I never knew there was an MTV special on abortion…I just checked it out…I’m watching it now…to me abortion is the worst issue that we face today or have ever faced…

 

[hxcCatholic413]

Honestly, I am not interested in discussing Margaret Sanger, simply because she is dead, and IMO not relevant to PP of today. I don’t believe that PP holds her values, as if they ever really did.

I personally know women who use health care via Planned Parenthood. Birth control, mammograms and some get prenatal as well. I support PP because of these women. “Sound bites” re: Sanger mean nothing to me.

You are allowed to have your own opinion. I have mine.

You seemed to totally avoid the question: “Why do you as a Catholic support Planned Parenthood?”. I wonder why Planned Parenthood is always located in the poorest areas of cities? Why they seem to target Hispanic and Black populations…AND why they want to expand to the Philippines?

A Catholic supporting Planned Parenthood is equivalent to an African-American supporting the White Power Movement…just my thought on it.

Abortion is the greatest of evils: it leaves a child dead…and puts both the mother and doctor’s soul in great peril. God Bless!

 

[mcteague]

You seemed to totally avoid the question: “Why do you as a Catholic support Planned Parenthood?”. I wonder why Planned Parenthood is always located in the poorest areas of cities? Why they seem to target Hispanic and Black populations…AND why they want to expand to the Philippines?

A Catholic supporting Planned Parenthood is equivalent to an African-American supporting the White Power Movement…just my thought on it.

Abortion is the greatest of evils: it leaves a child dead…and puts both the mother and doctor’s soul in great peril. God Bless!

It is in those area because they are underserved by the healthcare system. How many times does the fact that abortion is only a small portion of the service it provides have to be repeated. PP is not an abortion mill, and it is not part of some secret eugenics movement.
Although I understand why this is an important issue to many of you, I would prefer that your energy and money be used to provide alternative services like adoption and education rather than seeking to deny poor people access to services they are legally entitled to and need.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Yes, mcteague, it is a portion of their business, not nearly all of it. However, to be genuine to their name, Planned Parenthood should be at the leading edge of educating about the importance of marriage as the location of parenthood, and the dangers of early, unwed sexual behavior. As in Planned (later), as in Parenthood (marriage).

In addition, they could partner with public high schools for the simple message that – just as was communicated during the U.S. AIDS crisis – the only true way to protect oneself from STD’s and pregnancy, is abstinence.

Women under 20 are ‘only’ the third largest portion of abortion-seekers, but PP could at least provide this information service in the high schools, which may help later to reduce the first-highest segment, the segment aged 20-24.

 

[mcteague]

Yes, mcteague, it is a portion of their business, not nearly all of it. However, to be genuine to their name, Planned Parenthood should be at the leading edge of educating about the importance of marriage as the location of parenthood, and the dangers of early, unwed sexual behavior. As in Planned (later), as in Parenthood (marriage).

In addition, they could partner with public high schools for the simple message that – just as was communicated during the U.S. AIDS crisis – the only true way to protect oneself from STD’s and pregnancy, is abstinence.

Women under 20 are ‘only’ the third largest portion of abortion-seekers, but PP could at least provide this information service in the high schools, which may help later to reduce the first-highest segment, the segment aged 20-24.

I do not think it is reasonable to expect a non-catholic organization to advocate catholic views. I would also be careful with the partnering with high schools idea. It opens a can of worms regarding equal access. Unless you are ok with International Free Love Society having the same access.
One aspect of this issue that is rarely discussed is the fact that sexual activity is viewed as a threshold of maturity for young people. The desire for independence from parents and autonomy is often a stronger drive at that age than love or lust. But that might be off topic

 

[Elizabeth502]

I do not think it is reasonable to expect a non-catholic organization to advocate catholic views.

Wow. Are you suggesting that marriage as the traditional location of parenthood is strictly or even mainly a “Catholic” viewpoint? Because I hate to tell you, but it is a civil tradition as well in this country. It is the business of the state to encourage marriage. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand much, frankly, about the wide-ranging impact of the state on social policy.

I would also be careful with the partnering with high schools idea. It opens a can of worms regarding equal access. Unless you are ok with International Free Love Society having the same access.

This is just sheer nonsense. As an educator myself, I can tell that you know very little about the broad access that many groups have to the public schools. Planned Parenthood is not affiliated with any religious organization. (Hello) Further, plenty of values-centered groups with non-religious but ethical/moral messages regularly get permission to partner with public schools – for example, in urban areas.

 

[mcteague]

Wow. Are you suggesting that marriage as the traditional location of parenthood is strictly or even mainly a “Catholic” viewpoint? Because I hate to tell you, but it is a civil tradition as well in this country. It is the business of the state to encourage marriage. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand much, frankly, about the wide-ranging impact of the state on social policy.

This is just sheer nonsense. As an educator myself, I can tell that you know very little about the broad access that many groups have to the public schools. Planned Parenthood is not affiliated with any religious organization. (Hello) Further, plenty of values-centered groups with non-religious but ethical/moral messages regularly get permission to partner with public schools – for example, in urban areas.

It may have been a mistake to refer to it as a Catholic viewpoint. However PP’s mission is primarily to provide access to contraception. The abstinence only view is not one they support. Neither do most people. You can not expect them to invest their resources advocating positions they do not support. I have no objection to including abstinence in the discussion. But that is not really what advocates of abstinence intend.

They do not say, ’ you have a right to get an abortion, but there are other choices you should be aware of’. They do not say, ’ you can choose abstinence, but here are other methods of birth control that are available to you. The truth is that the pro-life movement would completely restrict access to information and services beyond very narrow, largely religiously proscribed parameters.

I am happy that many groups are involved with the schools. And that the question of equal access has not become a problem. It just seemed to me that if you let in one you may be required to let in all. If that has not become a problem, good

 

[Abyssinia]

75% of Planned Parenthood’s clientele are 150% below the poverty line - about $33,000 for a family of four. The largest service it provides is affordable birth control for consenting, impoverished adults. Isn’t there a chance that cutting funding and availability of birth control will resort in even more abortions?

Guttmacher, which tracks statistics on reproductive health and abortion predicts the cut of Title X will result in a 1/3 rise in unplanned pregnancies

I pray that it will not succeed. Too many poor women need the services.

I don’t think it’ll pass because Planned Parenthood also conducts services such as gynecological screenings and exams, tests, etc. I was actually once told to go to a Planned Parenthood to get a pap smear and a pelvic exam because at the time I didn’t have health insurance (I didn’t go, it was too weird).

I have to wonder-- how do we weigh what is more important-- not funding abortions, or not funding someone else’s gynecological screenings? I have no issues with my tax money going to help prevent a lower-income woman from getting cancer and getting proper reproductive health care, but paying for an abortion is something else.

There are 800 Planned Parenthoods, there are 7000 federally qualified health centers which do not do abortion, which offer comprehensive health care for women, men, pediatric care, vision centers, dental services, pharmaceutical services. Planned Parenthood can only offer limited health care, not comprehensive health care.

These 7000 federally qualified health centers offering free assistance to many underprivileged people.

Of those served over 90% are below 200% poverty and approximately 67% are racial & ethnic minorities: apa.org/about/gr/issues/chc/fqhc.aspx

 

[Abyssinia]

Elisabeth502

The pill and other birth control methods have failure rates. If you use birth control habitually, for most women it will fail at some point. Edward C Green of the Harvard AIDS Institute says that people stop using contraception when they know the person. People do not always use birth control correctly. Condoms can generate a false sense of security. Birth control promotion will never eliminate ‘‘unplanned’’ or ‘‘unwanted’’ pregnancies.

There are multiple studies showing the promotion of sex education and contraception did not improve use of contraceptives, and it did not reduce teenage pregnancy, STDs, abortion or the delaying of sex:

bmj.com/content/334/7585/133.full
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1456789/Teen-pregnancies-increase-after-sex-education-classes.html
tiny.cc/49np5
kinseyinstitute.org/publications/PDF/STDSep2002.pdf
telegraph.co.uk/health/8291468/Morning-after-pill-handout-causes-rise-in-teenage-sexual-disease-study-finds.html

 

[Elizabeth502]

^ ??? Why are you “quoting” me? The content of your post does not follow your “quoting” of me.

Your use of my username + the = sign implies that I supposedly support the aggressive contraception campaign of PP. That is very misleading, so I suggest that clarify what you meant by including my name in your post.

I made very different suggestions about what PP should or should not do.

 

[Elizabeth502]

For all of the rest of you, reading this thread, you can see for yourself my many thoughts on this subject from many posts here and on other threads. Just as one example, I will here quote myself from post 42:

My premise is that the attachment to fornication is the root of abortion, and my premise is demonstrated in the research about abortion statistics in this country. Ease of acquiring contraception (including for minors) makes fornication-without-commitment more attractive and easier, no question.

I do not endorse contraception, nor the apparent effort of PP to enable the ease of fornication (thereby risking abortion) by especially encouraging contraceptive use among unmarried women.

Married women, including Catholic married women, use contraception heavily – sometimes utilizing the services of PP, sometimes utilizing the services of their own physicians or other health centers. Most married women using contraceptives do not have abortions. It is unmarried women who overwhelming are the abortion seekers and obtainers; those are unmarried women who use contraception a lot, a little, and not at all.

Those are simply the statistics – statistics indicating the absence of marriage is the primary motivator for abortion, not the use of contraception. That does not mean that I approve of contraception. I am merely arguing that to focus on contraception among everybody (married + unmarried) is a poor strategy when approaching the abortion problem. Because it is fornication (aided and not aided by contraception) which is the root, and thus marriage is the antidote. “Accidental” pregnancies within marriage (again, when and when not contraception has been used) much less often result in abortions. Unplanned pregnancies overwhelming result in abortions outside of marriage.

I would support a national campaign to restrict contraception access or regulate it in some manner – certainly to minors, which i.m.o. is completely inappropriate from both a relgiious and secular perspective. But I, and you, and the entire Catholic Church, are wasting a lot of time to focus on denied or restricted access to contraception for adults, because there is no national mandate for this. And in the meantime, lots of unplanned children are dying while a futile strategy is being suggested, and/or endless complaints are being introduced about the evils of contraception. And to what end? You and I can complain, but the contraception ship in the United States of America sailed about 50 years ago.

 

[Personanongrata]

You seemed to totally avoid the question: “Why do you as a Catholic support Planned Parenthood?”. I wonder why Planned Parenthood is always located in the poorest areas of cities? Why they seem to target Hispanic and Black populations…AND why they want to expand to the Philippines?

A Catholic supporting Planned Parenthood is equivalent to an African-American supporting the White Power Movement…just my thought on it.

Abortion is the greatest of evils: it leaves a child dead…and puts both the mother and doctor’s soul in great peril. God Bless!

Just because you don’t SEE rich, non-minority women going into their private facilities in Beverly Hills, to have an abortion, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen there. Why do you not make their lives miserable? Why do you only target the poor? Are they any less important than the rich? I don’t think so.

As for your question – I support Planned Parenthood because I believe they do the most good for the working poor. If you don’t need their services, then don’t go there. But don’t stand in the way of someone who does. You simply don’t have the right to deny health care services to someone else, just because they don’t share your faith.

 

[Elizabeth502]

WHO HAS ABORTIONS?
Eighteen percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are teenagers; those aged 15-17 obtain 6% of all abortions, teens aged 18-19 obtain 11%, and teens under age 15 obtain 0.4%. [6]

Women in their twenties account for more than half of all abortions; women aged 20–24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and women aged 25-29 obtain 24%. [6]

Thirty percent of abortions occur to non-Hispanic black women, 36% to non-Hispanic white women, 25% to Hispanic women and 9% to women of other races. [6]

76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[8]

Forty-six percent of women who have abortions had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Of these women, 33% had perceived themselves to be at low risk for pregnancy, 32% had had concerns about contraceptive methods, 26% had had unexpected sex and 1% had been forced to have sex.[8]

guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
(Published January 2011)

 

[hxcCatholic413]

Just because you don’t SEE rich, non-minority women going into their private facilities in Beverly Hills, to have an abortion, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen there. Why do you not make their lives miserable? Why do you only target the poor? Are they any less important than the rich? I don’t think so.

As for your question --** I support Planned Parenthood because I believe they do the most good for the working poor.** If you don’t need their services, then don’t go there. But don’t stand in the way of someone who does. You simply don’t have the right to deny health care services to someone else, just because they don’t share your faith.

Yes they do a lot of good for the poor they provide: food, shelter, job opportunities…o wait they don’t do any of those things? Interesting…

Planned Parenthood provides birth control and abortion plain and simple they work as a means to block one’s spiritual life and create utter demise.

So Personanongrata if you lived in Nazi Germany would you speak out against them? Or would your philosophy be “Well if I don’t need their services…then I won’t go to them?”. We as Catholics are meant to defend innocent life not freely let anyone do what they will. Hey “I’m against someone murdering the president, but hey I won’t stop them it’s there choice not mine.” God Bless!

 

[Labarum]

Here is an article arguing the why financially and economically the US government should stop funding PP

nationalreview.com/corner/261444/economic-and-social-conservatives-agree-cut-planned-parenthood-grover-norquist