Deism: Why is it wrong?

[geekborj]

No, Deists believe in an Almighty God of Creation. They also believe in a moral order which is based on the order of creation. What they don’t believe in is revealed religions. Revealed religions are those which say they have God’s words or prophets or teachers. That means all of the Major religions of the world. They don’t believe God communicates to us through messengers, or Scriptures or anything other than creation.

What a pity. We should pray for them!

 

[solidmaninbox]

Yep, one wonders why to even bother to believe in Deism, if God doesn’t care or influence what happens here. Atheism, Deism, the same difference one way or aother.

There IS in fact a difference, considering the word “Atheism”, via its latin root meanings, means “without God”
Atheists believe there is no God, but many are open to the possibility, while ALL Deists believe there IS a God, but what said God did/has done is in question

 

[solidmaninbox]

Deism is a supreme act of disobedience.

How can one acknowledge a Creator but simultaneously reject the…etc

1, Deism is un-unified, so there can be various thoughts depending on the person. I believe Christ died as a sign that JESUS loved humanity, but I’m not convinced he was the son of God (please, don’t call God a he or she because you don’t know any better than I do what God is"
2. The next step is NOT Atheism. Where do you get that idea??

 

[solidmaninbox]

First
I replied to 2 people’s comments. I stopped going through the feed because I was disgusted.
I ACTUALLY read the agreement you need to need to check the "I have read"etc box. Know what? It only offers protection to Catholics by saying “All faiths welcome, but those posting comments must be respectful of the Catholic faith” So that’s one thing I don’t like about the Catholic Church (mind you, I have nothing against the Catholic people themselves) is that it’s corrupt and tries to force its beliefs on others, but then so do most organized religions.

The only UNIFIED notion in Deism is that there IS a GOD. That my friends is where its practitioners are free to form their own opinions. Some don’t believe in some sort of afterlife and others do
Personally? I believe in some alternate plane of existence, possibly paradise-like and/or hellish, and that Jesus died on the cross because JESUS loved man, not because he was God. I think God is indifferent to what happens in the Universe, because God created it so perfectly God needn’t interfere.
A point to enforce this; someone on here said, basically, you will cease to exist if God ceases to will it… If I bake a cake, do I have to will it to keep it a cake? The only willpower that would do such a thing is the will to not eat the cakehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
I also hate how people on herre say the next step is Atheism. That is not true, though many become Atheist, just as many do NOT. I will never turn to Atheism, for the simple fact that I BELIEVE there is a God, though God doesn’t God’s creation and walk it through its existence like an overprotective mother would; How would anyone here like it if at say age 30 your mom was (literally) dressing you, bathing you, and hand-feeding you everyday?

to sum up, I BELIEVE God is real, but I don’t believe God is constantly maintaining the Universe. If you believe God DOES maintain it, then I assume you’re saying something GOD made isn’t perfect.
Thank you for taking the time to read this

 

[mackbrislawn]

There IS in fact a difference, considering the word “Atheism”, via its latin root meanings, means “without God”
Atheists believe there is no God, but many are open to the possibility, while ALL Deists believe there IS a God, but what said God did/has done is in question

You’re right, there is that difference, Deists believe that there is a God. But what I wonder, unless God cares about what happens to us, and responds to our prayers, why bother to believe in a God? If God doesn’t care or respond to us, he may as well not exist, for all practical purposes. The effect is the same, identical to atheism.

 

[solidmaninbox]

What I wonder, unless God cares about what happens to us, and responds to our prayers, why bother to believe in a God? If God doesn’t care or respond to us, he may as well not exist, for all practical purposes. The effect is the same, identical to atheism.

This is true, it serves no practical purpose. But it’s a belief, nonetheless. The reason Deists can be happy with believing in a possiblyimpractical (as I haven’t ruled out that God MAY still interact with God’s work) God is because it’s more or less a hypothesis than a religion- See, the Deist mindset at its core is ‘there’s a God. Cool. I don’t care if I make God happy, I’m going to live life’. Several Deists detach themselves from an organized religion because they see things that don’t make sense to them, or things that the practitioners of those religions doing things that contradict what the religion says to do, or things that are just wrong, in a Deist’s eyes. Also, Deists aren’t fearful of a final judgement if there is one, as they know if they were bad people, they will be judged as such, and good people will be judged as such, too.

A Deist doesn’t say that everything in Any of the religious documents like the Torah and Bible are wrong, just they doubt they’re all right. If someone can prove Jesus was the son of the Biblical God, they will become Christians. If it’s son of another God or a God himself, then new religions would form anyway. Atheists would convert too. If someone proved that no higher power of any sort crafted the Universe, THEN they will become Atheists. Deists simply take their beliefs from conclusions they have drawn themselves, hence why one Deist’s beliefs can be much different from the one next to them.

 

[solidmaninbox]

Also, I don’t like how the title of the thread is called “why Deism is W R O N G”

How do you know you’re right? According the Catholic belief, God is the only perfect being, and therefore man is fallible. Deists ALSO believe the creator of this universe was a great being and that we are not as magnanimous as God; Deists admit that, ANYBODY, be they theistic or atheistic, could be WRONG because we’re human, they admit this the moment they declare themselves Deist

 

[mackbrislawn]

This is true, it serves no practical purpose. But it’s a belief, nonetheless. The reason Deists can be happy with believing in a possiblyimpractical (as I haven’t ruled out that God MAY still interact with God’s work) God is because it’s more or less a hypothesis than a religion- See, the Deist mindset at its core is ‘there’s a God. Cool. I don’t care if I make God happy, I’m going to live life’. Several Deists detach themselves from an organized religion because they see things that don’t make sense to them, or things that the practitioners of those religions doing things that contradict what the religion says to do, or things that are just wrong, in a Deist’s eyes. Also, Deists aren’t fearful of a final judgement if there is one, as they know if they were bad people, they will be judged as such, and good people will be judged as such, too.

A Deist doesn’t say that everything in Any of the religious documents like the Torah and Bible are wrong, just they doubt they’re all right. If someone can prove Jesus was the son of the Biblical God, they will become Christians. If it’s son of another God or a God himself, then new religions would form anyway. Atheists would convert too. If someone proved that no higher power of any sort crafted the Universe, THEN they will become Atheists. Deists simply take their beliefs from conclusions they have drawn themselves, hence why one Deist’s beliefs can be much different from the one next to them.

In the past, and now as well, humans believed in gods because they hoped their gods could do something for them. They prayed to their gods and sacrificed to them in order to prevent crop failure, prevent sickness, achieve victory in battle, achieve an afterlife, etc. So from that point of view, only a god that can influence events or your afterlife is of any value or purpose.

However, there may be a practical purpose in Deism after all. It is said the Founding Fathers of the U.S. were Deists, and thereby, they utilized the concept of God in writing the Declaration of Independence, referring to Him as the Creator. In this case, they declare that it is the Creator who endows people with their inalienable rights, not government, and hence government cannot take these rights away, because they were given by something prior to, and higher than, government. So a Deist God is valuable in this way.

Of course, in addition to that, there is the satisfaction taken in one’s beliefs. And if you don’t expect anything from God, God doesn’t expect anything from you. This avoids the terrible anxiety that troubled Luther, and, perhaps it can be said, all Theists.

 

[solidmaninbox]

In the past, and now as well, humans believed in gods because they hoped their gods could do something for them. They prayed to their gods and sacrificed to them in order to prevent crop failure, prevent sickness, achieve victory in battle, achieve an afterlife, etc. So from that point of view, only a god that can influence events or your afterlife is of any value or purpose.

However, there may be a practical purpose in Deism after all. It is said the Founding Fathers of the U.S. were Deists, and thereby, they utilized the concept of God in writing the Declaration of Independence, referring to Him as the Creator. In this case, they declare that it is the Creator who endows people with their inalienable rights, not government, and hence government cannot take these rights away, because they were given by something prior to, and higher than, government. So a Deist God is valuable in this way.

Of course, in addition to that, there is the satisfaction taken in one’s beliefs. And if you don’t expect anything from God, God doesn’t expect anything from you. This avoids the terrible anxiety that troubled Luther, and, perhaps it can be said, all Theists.

I agree, I know that the type of God Deists believe in can have it’s good purposes. I actually find it advantageous because not relying on a God to do everything for you is a GOOD thing. Doesn’t one of the scriptures or whatever say “God helps those who help themselves”?

Either way thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut

 

[solidmaninbox]

In the past, and now as well, humans believed in gods because they hoped their gods could do something for them. They prayed to their gods and sacrificed to them in order to prevent crop failure, prevent sickness, achieve victory in battle, achieve an afterlife, etc. So from that point of view, only a god that can influence events or your afterlife is of any value or purpose.

However, there may be a practical purpose in Deism after all. It is said the Founding Fathers of the U.S. were Deists, and thereby, they utilized the concept of God in writing the Declaration of Independence, referring to Him as the Creator. In this case, they declare that it is the Creator who endows people with their inalienable rights, not government, and hence government cannot take these rights away, because they were given by something prior to, and higher than, government. So a Deist God is valuable in this way.

Of course, in addition to that, there is the satisfaction taken in one’s beliefs. And if you don’t expect anything from God, God doesn’t expect anything from you. This avoids the terrible anxiety that troubled Luther, and, perhaps it can be said, all Theists.

You’re absolutely right, but if I recall the only founding father who was, without a doubt, Deist, was Thomas Jefferson…
As for sacrificing for crops and such, we know that’s ridiculous, but we take our view on creation from the standpoint that a God did it, and left everything how God made it;; Just the way said God wanted it, and it is perfect in God’s view. The framers of the constitution used this is saying that, because the creator didn’t make us as enslaved creatures,does not take possessions away from us, and doesn’t necessarily say when we die, they drew from that the ideas of the inalienable rights.
I agree, with most of what you said, just that Deists never said God gave us these things, but rather because he didn’t deny them, we may have them;; the same concept is in the 9th and 10th amendments, the 9th stating people have more rights than JUST what’s in the Constitution and the 10th says whatever power isn’t given to the states or the nation, is given to the people. To a Deist, what God doesn’t specifically take away, we are allowed to have, and whatever God doesn’t specifically stop (make impossible) we can do-- We cannot fly with our natural body, because we weren’t made to; we CAN however create something t help us fly, because there is nothing that says we can’t.
Don’t mean to come off as rude, I’m just saying

 

[solidmaninbox]

Oops I quoted the same person twice xD

 

[meswel]

I believe in god. I believe god create everything. What I do not believe in what the bible says about god. I have issue with god saying slavery is good. I have issues with god saying slay everyone that does not believe in him. Where is the freedom of choice that god has given us. There is none. Either you believe or you die. Does that sound like another religion to you. god also seems to being a communist is a great idea.
Acts 4:34 - 5:11.

It reads: "Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and the distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

"And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, and kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

"Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

"And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

"And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

"And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

"And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

"Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

"Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

"And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things

There is more.

 

[prodeism]

Greetings everybody

I came to this site because, as a deist (by way of atheism), I am interested in finding out why deism is wrong. Unfortuneatly I found just mud-slinging and bickering. I still do not know why deism is wrong but did find the answer is contained in a book by Joseph Butler titled The Analogy of Religion so, having missed the boat here, I will peruse said book and, undoubtedly find the truth.

If this string once again resumes I would love to join in.

 

[prodeism]

I have read the first part of Joseph butler’s treasties on religion and found it antiquated. There was nothing that would invalidate deism, much of it could be reputed by the average layman, and, more disappointingly, it introduced no new meaningful ideas. All of this is, of course, because of its age and is not intended as an insult to the work or the author.

I would like to take this time to clear up a couple of things about deism, at least, my beliefs about deism. The reason god is important, even though he does not act on the universe, is because he has a plan for the universe. Knowing this I am able to release my fears and worries because I have faith that the plan of god will be perfect and will ultimately come to fruition. I do not have to make things right, I need only do the best I can as a failable human being, Because this is god’s job. I do not have to judge people because I know we are all god’s children and even though they may do things I consider wrong this is god’s universe and I can not criticize his creation.

Even though I am a deist, and have complete faith in it, I do not say deism is true because I can not know, this also is god’s domain. I do not expect anything from god because god has already given man everything he could possibly need and infinatly more that he has not yet learned about. I do not wonder if there is an afterlife because this also is god’s domain and he will do the best possible thing even if we as humans don’t know what the best possible thing is. These are but a few of the reasons I am a deist and they are, in my opinion, reasonable and rewarding.

 

[ASimon]

I have read the first part of Joseph butler’s treasties on religion and found it antiquated. There was nothing that would invalidate deism, much of it could be reputed by the average layman, and, more disappointingly, it introduced no new meaningful ideas. All of this is, of course, because of its age and is not intended as an insult to the work or the author.

I would like to take this time to clear up a couple of things about deism, at least, my beliefs about deism. The reason god is important, even though he does not act on the universe, is because he has a plan for the universe. Knowing this I am able to release my fears and worries because I have faith that the plan of god will be perfect and will ultimately come to fruition. I do not have to make things right, I need only do the best I can as a failable human being, Because this is god’s job. I do not have to judge people because I know we are all god’s children and even though they may do things I consider wrong this is god’s universe and I can not criticize his creation.

Even though I am a deist, and have complete faith in it, I do not say deism is true because I can not know, this also is god’s domain. I do not expect anything from god because god has already given man everything he could possibly need and infinatly more that he has not yet learned about. I do not wonder if there is an afterlife because this also is god’s domain and he will do the best possible thing even if we as humans don’t know what the best possible thing is. These are but a few of the reasons I am a deist and they are, in my opinion, reasonable and rewarding.

It seems to me that if God did not act on the Universe, then he wouldn’t have a plan for it - at least none that concerns us. Also, the general tenor of your thoughts here suggest a more theistic mindset than a deistic one.

 

[sw85]

Deism is the belief that God did create the world, but that he left it alone.

Why is this wrong?

I’m not a deist (I’m very Catholic), but let’s pretend that I am. While trying to convince me, since Deists do not believe in the Bible, you can’t really use the Bible to help the argument.

Also, do deists generally believe in salvation? Or is it practical atheism? I would guess that some do and some don’t, since deism doesn’t really have much of a belief system, but generally, do they believe in an afterlife?

Ultimately the problem is that we cannot reconcile the idea of such a God with what we know must be true about God, for instance, that He is love itself.

Love is not uninterested in the affairs of its beloved.

 

[DavidFilmer]

This thread is almost four years old.

May the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.

This includes dead threads. May they rest in peace. Or, at least, may a forum moderator pronounce them dead and send them to their eternal reward.

 

[prodeism]

I do not believe that humans are the reason for the existence of the universe. God’s plan for the universe goes far beyond our little species just as the physical universe is far more than our little planet. We know god loves us because he has provided us with everything. It is our shortcomming that we do not act equatibly and just. Just because god does not act directly to mend our brutallities does not mean he doesn’t care. We must prove ourselves worthy of taking part in god’s plan. If we are not worthy we will fade from existence and the species of the universe that arte worthy will fulfill god’s plan.

Deism is about faith. As a deist I do not know god exists but I have faith. I do not have god’s word, except in his creation, and he does not perform mircles for me so I only have faith. If I did have his word I would not have to have faith because I would have proof. I do not know god exists and that he is love but I have faith in these things and by having faith my life is greatly improved.

Deists are theists. Religion does not own theism (a belief in god), it is available to all of us, and religion does not own god, he also is available to all of us. Life is not perfect but by believing in god my life is the best it can be.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Deists are theists. Religion does not own theism (a belief in god), it is available to all of us, and religion does not own god, he also is available to all of us. Life is not perfect but by believing in god my life is the best it can be.

There is definitely a difference between Faith and Religion.

Faith can be natural or supernatural. We couldn’t live without natural or human faith. Otherwise we would demand concrete proof for everything everyone told us, no matter how trivial.

Supernatural Faith (Belief in God), is a Theological virtue which comes from God, a gift in other words. (A personal gift.)

Religion is a “community of believers”, where people congregate together because it is their belief that they have Divine revelation. This Divine revelation is taken on Faith. However, depending on the rationality (and evidences) of the Religion, it may or may not be rational to believe in that revelation as being Divine. That is something that the individual (with the help of God) must discern.

 

[prodeism]

I have faith in god. If you have faith in books deemed to be the word of god you must put your faith in the writers of the books since you can not know god until you have the information contained in those books. Also by saying you have faith in those books you are tacitly saying the books may be the word of god or they may not be the word of god since if they were undeniably the word of god you would not have to have faith. This was the point I was trying to make.

I came to this site because I am a true deist and want to know if deism has irresolvable problems. I haven’t found anything that would lead me to believe it does. I am a little baffeled as to why a Catholic site would be dedicated to disproving deism but have found other Christian site dedicated to the same thing.

I do not agree with Christianity, it was my inability to accept Christianity that lead me to atheism for the first four decades of my life, but after a thorough examination of atheism I found it philosophically unsound and I turned, reluctantly at first, to deism. I have found deism far more enlightening than I had expected and it has allowed me to rationalize the insights I found in atheism.

I do not want to prove Christianity wrong. People who are happy with Christianity should embrace Christianity. Even if you are able to prove deism wrong, which in my opinion you have not done here, it does nothing to establish the truthfullness of Christianity. The apologetics and attcks on other belief systems only go to deminish the faith of Christianity. It should not have to explain itself or disprove others to make itself sound but, of course, I don’t care because I am not a Christian and will never be a Christian.