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babochka
Guest
Were confessions and anointing permitted?
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Phemie
Guest
I never saw a document that forbid the sacrament of the sick or confession, though I admit I did not try to avail of Confession, assuming it wasn’t happening. Even now, when we’re back to having Sunday Mass for up to 50 people, l’m not sure Confession is scheduled. That’s why when I attend Mass for the first time in 3 1/2 months tomorrow, I will abstain from Communion. I’ll find out then what Fr. is doing for that sacrament.Phemie:
Were confessions and anointing permitted?
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Gorgias
Guest
Good point.
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tuffsmurf
Guest
Confession and anointing of the sick should never had been cancelled to begin with. Those sacraments are essential.
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babochka
Guest
Exactly. But since those were canceled in some places, I would assume that weddings, no matter how small, would have also been canceled. It is hard to imagine that a bishop would allow a wedding to take place, with at least five people present, but not allow confession and anointing of the sick.
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poche
Guest
Some of those places are in an indefinite church closure. Is it reasonable to expect couples to wait that indefinite time in order to be married? At what point will they be able to legitimately consummate a valid marriage within the Church without the ceremonies of a wedding (where the Church has made herself unavailable) and still be able to receive communion when the Church reopens?
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Montrose
Guest
What’s the rush? They can’t wait a few months?
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poche
Guest
How many months is just a few? Is there an amount of time that is so far beyond just a few that the couple could legitimately dispense with the church wedding and simply begin to cohabit?
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Montrose
Guest
They must not cohabit and they should wait until the Church wedding can be arranged. When talking about their whole life waiting several months is not a big ask!
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NevermoreLenore
Guest
This is purely anecdotal, but my husband and I had our first date, were engaged six weeks later, and married a few months later…twenty years ago. My marriage is the single greatest blessing in my life. We were evangelicals at the time, if that makes a difference. But we each had been living on our own and know what we were looking for and what we were not wanting, and instead of dinner and movies dates we talked and talked and talked–openly and honestly.tuffsmurf:
Freedom to marry needs to be determined and the couple need to understand what marriage is.
Then there needs to be availibility.
I always disliked the idea of long engagements in general, but maintaining six months to a year of sexual purity seems…daunting.
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Athanasiy
Guest
In my case its not the priest, its my self who delayed marriage for many years.
If impulsivity goes off scale, then it must be curbed by total abstinence.
Even if I, even in middle age, subconsciously dream of a Playboy image of a girl and look at all cute girls. then abstinence and self control is still useful to me.
I am from a genealogy tree where to marry or to make children you can only out of great love or by accidental fornication, therefore I do not see marriage in the near future.
May be even self-control till the end of my life l is the God’s Will, despite my impulsiveness, even in middle age. I have not yet overcome lust, also I did not get wise enough to choose Christ in marriage.
No I dream about sexiness and beauty.
So, in this case, of course my marriage should be delayed, may be forever, bcz it’s more and more difficult to find your ideal bride when you getting elder.
If impulsivity goes off scale, then it must be curbed by total abstinence.
Even if I, even in middle age, subconsciously dream of a Playboy image of a girl and look at all cute girls. then abstinence and self control is still useful to me.
I am from a genealogy tree where to marry or to make children you can only out of great love or by accidental fornication, therefore I do not see marriage in the near future.
May be even self-control till the end of my life l is the God’s Will, despite my impulsiveness, even in middle age. I have not yet overcome lust, also I did not get wise enough to choose Christ in marriage.
No I dream about sexiness and beauty.
So, in this case, of course my marriage should be delayed, may be forever, bcz it’s more and more difficult to find your ideal bride when you getting elder.
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hwriggles4
Guest
When I first saw this, I thought it was more about marriages between a man and a woman who are between say, 33 and 45. These are more common today than say, 1978. Part of it has to do with money, some has to do with education (I am a guy, and I dated a few female attorneys in my late 30s/early 40s, and many attorneys - particularly women, by default fall into this category due to long work hours, loans, etc.) , others has to do with today’s culture (avoiding the hook up culture for both men and women has shrunk many dating pools), and some has to do with demanding careers (I worked 60-70 hour work weeks for many years).
I am wondering if some priests can look at criteria on a case-by-case basis, to determine how much marriage prep is needed. A friend of mine got married at 50 and one priest told her and her now-husband that they would have to wait six months (both were practicing Catholics, living in accordance with Church teaching, and weren’t the “C and E variety” either) . The priest who married them married them earlier than six months at another parish. Many of us over 35 have lived on our own, paid bills, and many of us had trouble finding someone to marry due to work obligations (some jobs require a lot of travel, long hours), not wanting to date people at work (which for some people is fine - at work you can develop a relationship and see each other at their best and worst, getting to know someone before planning a social event outside of work ), and others were either shy or it took them a while to develop some social skills (many technical guys have a harder time with this - in my younger days engineers, scientists, mechanics, factory workers, and computer gurus worked predominately around all men).
If older couples (say a 41 year old man and a 36 year old woman) desire to have children, they have a shorter window, and will on the average have two (possibly three) children. Most of my now married friends have been good parents who married that are in this demographic. Getting married earlier (if there are no impediments) might have given them some more time to have children. If they had a chaste courtship, that’s great. If they cannot have biological children, they can adopt, which is worthwhile.
I dated one girl who already had her annulment, which was one reason I asked her out. I thanked her for that. Some good priests have enough courage to tell divorced Catholics that without an annulment, the Church still considers you married, so divorced Catholics who have not received a decree of nullity should not be dating.
With COVID-19 going on, several churches have delayed weddings, or have put restrictions on the details. It’s just something that engaged couples will have to deal with for now. I have heard that some engaged couples were having trouble getting expensive deposits back due to cancellations for their wedding venue (mostly the reception hall and the caterer), which is unfortunate, since that’s quite a bit of money down the drain.
I am wondering if some priests can look at criteria on a case-by-case basis, to determine how much marriage prep is needed. A friend of mine got married at 50 and one priest told her and her now-husband that they would have to wait six months (both were practicing Catholics, living in accordance with Church teaching, and weren’t the “C and E variety” either) . The priest who married them married them earlier than six months at another parish. Many of us over 35 have lived on our own, paid bills, and many of us had trouble finding someone to marry due to work obligations (some jobs require a lot of travel, long hours), not wanting to date people at work (which for some people is fine - at work you can develop a relationship and see each other at their best and worst, getting to know someone before planning a social event outside of work ), and others were either shy or it took them a while to develop some social skills (many technical guys have a harder time with this - in my younger days engineers, scientists, mechanics, factory workers, and computer gurus worked predominately around all men).
If older couples (say a 41 year old man and a 36 year old woman) desire to have children, they have a shorter window, and will on the average have two (possibly three) children. Most of my now married friends have been good parents who married that are in this demographic. Getting married earlier (if there are no impediments) might have given them some more time to have children. If they had a chaste courtship, that’s great. If they cannot have biological children, they can adopt, which is worthwhile.
I dated one girl who already had her annulment, which was one reason I asked her out. I thanked her for that. Some good priests have enough courage to tell divorced Catholics that without an annulment, the Church still considers you married, so divorced Catholics who have not received a decree of nullity should not be dating.
With COVID-19 going on, several churches have delayed weddings, or have put restrictions on the details. It’s just something that engaged couples will have to deal with for now. I have heard that some engaged couples were having trouble getting expensive deposits back due to cancellations for their wedding venue (mostly the reception hall and the caterer), which is unfortunate, since that’s quite a bit of money down the drain.
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poche
Guest
I was referring to the churches with the indeterminate delayed weddings. How long can a church cancel weddings and expect that the couples should not be allowed to cohabit? In some places there have been closure that appear to be indefinite. In other cases there could be reclosures due to a resurgence of the virus. How long is reasonable for the Church in a particular area to be closed before the couples can legitimately cohabit in valid marriages without the church wedding?
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Montrose
Guest
As long as it takes for the virus crisis to be under control.
The couple should not be cohabiting in the first place.
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poche
Guest
So if this crisis lasts for a year or longer then it is reasonable that every couple should expect that they will be canonically unable to contract a valid marriage if the Church makes itself unavailable to them?
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mythbuster1
Guest
Under control according to whom? Some of the civil authorities ordering these lockdowns are active enemies of the Church and are attempting to destroy the Sacraments.
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Montrose
Guest
Oh dear. You are obviously a member of the crazy conspiracy theory club!!
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mythbuster1
Guest
It’s no conspiracy theory when Governors are threatening priests with arrest for holding Mass. Even the Navy tried to shut down Masses, only to be overruled by the President.
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Montrose
Guest
I live in the Philippines which is a Catholic country. We are under lockdown. Churches and other places where people can gather are closed down. Nobody is complaining because it’s a matter of public health and safety. Mass obligation is dispensed with.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
Requiring a year of marriage preparation as the standard is kind of harsh in my opinion, and unnecessary in most cases. But I think six months is very reasonable. When my husband and I got engaged, we set our wedding date almost exactly six months out. A few people expressed surprise at such a short engagement, so I guess it’s all a matter of perspective. :woman_shrugging:t2:
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