Delaying Another Pregnancy?

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I would like some suggestions/strategies of how to delay another pregnancy. We have a 17 month old and a two week old. We don’t want another one for at least two years. How can we make this happen? Please help. Thanks.

Matthew, father of Briana and Madelyn
 
First, there are several kinds of NFP.
You need to examine why it “didn’t work.”

For several months now, my wife and I have been using LH test strips: both the really cheap kind and the expensive ClearPlan that’s used in the Marquette Model, along with checking cervical mucus and cervical position.

We’ve gotten to where a day comes when there’s a really dark purple line on the disposable test and the ClearPlan shows a little ovulation day symbol, and the cervix is unreachable and there’s globs of mucus and she feels a pain in her abdomen. And we know she’s ovulated.

Sympto-Thermal NFP requires a bunch of stuff that really doesn’t work once you have kids, unless a) you have perfect health and b) you’re super-organized in your life.

And breastfeeding, while it extends amennorhea, can also fool the body so that many methods of NFP don’t work when a woman is breastfeeding.

Add to that any health issues.

So we’ve been trying different supplements for months now to try and improve my wife’s health. The NaPro Technology people (a subset of Creighton Method) suggest progesterone supplements for women who have “double peak” or other irregularities in Phase II & Phase III, because progesterone is the hormone that, when everything else is done, tells the body to release the egg.
Usually, what’s happened with us is that we see all the signs of a “Peak Day”, but ovulation doesn’t occur. A few days later, when we think we’re in “safe time,” according to the books, she ovulates. This is one variation of a common phenomenon called “Double peak,” that most NFP books only treat as a rare footnote.

For the last 3 cycles, she’s used progesterone supplements. When she gets an apparent “Peak Day,” she waits a day or two. If there’s no indication of ovulation (e.g., the sharp pain in her side), she uses the progesterone cream. She practically ovulates as soon as she uses it.

(Note that one must be very careful with the progesterone timing to avoid using it as a contraceptive).

I also discovered a supplement called Goat’s Rue: it’s the herb from which the diabetes medicine Metformin is derived, and it’s been used by herbalists to treat diabetes for centuries. Metformin is also used to treat PCOS. Goat’s Rue is usually promoted as a supplement for nursing mothers. My wife’s family have a big history of diabetes and PCOS ,and she has many symptoms of both. She’s been taking the Goat’s Rue for a month and a half now, and her cycles have been

The Goat’s Rue has improved her overall health and her cycles, as well. The last two cycles have practically been “by the book,” “Rhythm” Cycles.

It’s taken us 8 years to figure out NFP, but we finally did after several “accidents” that we now can’t live without. Our experience is that, if you’re struggling figuring out NFP, keep trying your best. If you really can’t get it to “work” after studying, praying, and trying everything you can to do it, then God wants you to have another child, and He will guide you to the knowledge of NFP when He wants you to have it.
 
I second those LP strips! With NFP (any method) we could never p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation, until I started using it WITH very cheap LP strips (I’m in Britain but the equivalent of 7 for $2), I used then for a whole month three months in a row and found out I ovulate ‘later’ than I thought and have a very short lutual phase…

So, try different things …once you know how your wife’s body ‘works’, it’s actually not THAT hard preventing pregnancy.
 
So we've been trying different supplements for months now to try and improve my wife's health. The NaPro Technology people (a subset of Creighton Method) suggest progesterone supplements for women who have "double peak" or other irregularities in Phase II & Phase III, **because progesterone is the hormone that, when everything else is done, tells the body to release the egg.** Usually, what's happened with us is that we see all the signs of a "Peak Day", but ovulation doesn't occur. A few days later, when we think we're in "safe time," according to the books, she ovulates. This is one variation of a common phenomenon called "Double peak," that most NFP books only treat as a rare footnote.
For the last 3 cycles, she’s used progesterone supplements. When she gets an apparent “Peak Day,” she waits a day or two. If there’s no indication of ovulation (e.g., the sharp pain in her side), she uses the progesterone cream. She practically ovulates as soon as she uses it.

(Note that one must be very careful with the progesterone timing to avoid using it as a contraceptive).
Would you mind providing some literature to back up the bolded claim? I have never heard of this before. I was always under the impression that estrogen, LH, and FSH cause ovulation, and that progesterone prepared the uterus for a potential pregnancy, as it is produced by the corpus luteum that exists only AFTER ovulation has already occurred.

Here is one explination of ovulation hormones the way I’ve always understood it: homehealth-uk.com/medical/ovulationandmenstrualcycle.htm

To the OP: There is only ONE moral way to prevent pregnancy: abstain from marital relations. NFP gives you the option to find out when you are NOT fertile, and don’t actually have to abstain. If you have tried all the methods of NFP out there, and consulted with a pro-NFP doctor, and it STILL doesn’t work, then the ONLY moral way for you to prevent pregnancy would be to abstain completely, until you’re ready to get pregnant again. Ecological breast-feeding would probably be your best bet right now, with a 2-week-old.

Probably easier said than done, I know, but as a married couple you have access to an abundance of graces that will help you do the right thing. :gopray:
 
Tried that, didn’t work.
Define “tried that”. Which method? Did you teach yourself or go to an instructor? What did your instructor say when reviewing your charts? How conservatively did you practice NFP?

I’m not really sure what you are looking for when you post “How can we make this happen?”

The only moral ways to space children for serious reasons are periodic abstinence through natural family planning, ecological breastfeeding, and complete abstinence. So, those are your choices.

If your NFP method isn’t working for you, look at other methods.
 
Pumpkinbeast,

Check the Creighton website and the USCCB. I have done so much research on this over the years, I can’t always keep track of which websites provide which information. I’m pretty sure I got it from a combination of Creighton and a secular website on NFP.
 
ecological breastfeeding

If your NFP method isn’t working for you, look at other methods.
What is ecological breastfeeding?

As for looking at other methods…That’s why I posted on here, I don’t know any other methods.

Matthew, father of Briana and Madelyn
 
Pumpkinbeast,

Check the Creighton website and the USCCB. I have done so much research on this over the years, I can’t always keep track of which websites provide which information. I’m pretty sure I got it from a combination of Creighton and a secular website on NFP.
You did not get it from Creighton because it is not true.

Creighton Fertility Care book, page 40: The **progesterone **hormone, however, increases ***only ***following ovulation. (emphasis theirs)

Creighton Fertility Care book, page 40: Figure 9.1 The Hormones of the Menstrual Cycle show Progesterone increasing after ovulation.

Creighton Fertility Care book, page 9: The FSH stimulates the development of an egg within the ovary. The LH actually stimulates the release of the egg from the ovary.

Creighton Fertility Care book, page 58: “A “double peak” will occur principally in response to stress”

The Creighton model does **NOT **recommend progesterone supplements for women with “double” peak or “split” peak. Nor does Creighton have any concept of Phase II or Phase III. That is Sympto-Thermal nomenclature.

Creighton Fertility Care book, page 41: Progesterone Replacement Therapy. #2 True progesterone replacement therapy must, therefore, be provided only durin gthe post-ovulatory phase of the cycle. and page 45: We have found that progesterone support in pregnancy can be helpful to those patients who have previous infertility, miscarriage, or ectopic pregnancy.
 
Pumpkinbeast,

Check the Creighton website and the USCCB. I have done so much research on this over the years, I can’t always keep track of which websites provide which information. I’m pretty sure I got it from a combination of Creighton and a secular website on NFP.
I just checked the Creighton website. Their figure: creightonmodel.com/images/Figure-4-4.gif clearly shows Progesterone appearing AFTER peak, aka, AFTER ovulation. Here’s the page I took the figure from: creightonmodel.com/background.htm

USCCB is from the Bishops. While they are educated men in their field, I would rather trust a more scientific source. 🙂
 
What is ecological breastfeeding?
Check the CCLI website, the Kippleys have a book on ecological breastfeeding. It is not cultural breastfeeding, but rather the type that includes baby wearing, nursing on demand, exclusive breastfeeding (no bottles, juice, cereal, pacifiers, etc).
As for looking at other methods…That’s why I posted on here, I don’t know any other methods.
Which method did you use?

The main methods are:

Sympto-Thermal through Couple To Couple League

Creighton Model Fertility Care

Billings Ovulation Model

Marquette Model (uses a fertility monitor)

Have you contacted your Family Life office in your diocese? They can give you NFP resources as well.
 
What is ecological breastfeeding?
Check out nfpandmore.com/ – The Kippleys are not associated with the Couple to Couple League anymore. Nfpandmore.com is an excellent resource!

For the specifics of Ecological Breastfeeding, see Chapter 4 on this page:

nfpandmore.com/nfphowto.shtml

I use EB to space my children. My son was conceived 15 months after my daughter’s birth (they are 8 days shy of being 2 years apart). My son is now 7 months old, I am still nursing my daughter, and my fertility isn’t showing any signs of returning any time soon (I do hope it comes back in a few months, though 😉 ).
 
For the specifics of Ecological Breastfeeding, see Chapter 4 on this page:

nfpandmore.com/nfphowto.shtml

I use EB to space my children. My son was conceived 15 months after my daughter’s birth (they are 8 days shy of being 2 years apart). My son is now 7 months old, I am still nursing my daughter, and my fertility isn’t showing any signs of returning any time soon (I do hope it comes back in a few months, though 😉 ).
Well, that’s out of the question for us. My wife has been unable to produce much milk for both children. Her mother was the same way.

Matthew, Father of Briana and Madelyn
 
“shows Progesterone appearing AFTER peak, aka, AFTER ovulation”
Actually, it shows the progesterone appearing during ovulation.
“Peak” is the LH surge. The LH surge occurs 24-36 hours before ovulation. That is the problem with “mucus-only”: it conflates peak with ovulation, which isn’t accurate.

Most “NFP failure” happens because a woman interprets peak as ovulation, but doesn’t actually ovulate. Signs seem to clear up for 3 days, so they assume it’s Phase III, and then actual ovulation occurs–with or without signs.

Progesterone begins to be released at the beginning of peak,as shown on that chart, and peaks when the egg is released, so it can prepare the uterus to receive the potential embryo.

I cannot find the citation for the article that suggested that progesterone actually causes ovulation.

I’m very bad about memorizing details that I read and then forgetting where I found them.

It goes back to my pre-internet days. I can usually read something in a book and remember “what the page looked like,” or what chapter, or whatever, and quickly flip back through the book to find it.

I do want to find that website and double-check it, and keep it for citation, but I think the Creighton chart actually proves my point.
 
I do want to find that website and double-check it, and keep it for citation, but I think the Creighton chart actually proves my point.
My mistake, you’re right, progesterone is present at the time of ovulation. BUT it does not CAUSE ovulation. That was my original point. LH, FSH, and estrogen work together to make ovulation happen. Progesterone takes care of the egg(and potentially, a new baby) after ovulation has occurred.
 
Most user error NFP pregnancies (never God’s error, of course) occur in phase one. If you want to be very conservative, stick to phase three.

Ovulation strips will be more effective in this case. The man’s sperm can survive several days, but the egg only lives 24 to 48 hours, so once ovulation occurs, wait a couple days–safe!!

My two oldest are 17 months apart. It’s harder for the first year, but after that, it’s kind of nice having them spaced closely. It’ll get easier, I promise.

We just use mucus and cervical changes to do our NFP. It’s worked great for us.
 
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