Dementia and Confession

[whm]

Can a person with significant dementia participate in the sacrament of confession and receive a valid absolution? What if the no longer fully comprehend the sacrament or are even capable of remembering of identify potential mortal sins that only they would (pre-dementia) know about.

 

[Newbie2]

Excellent question.

I would say that if someone was experiencing dementia to where they didn’t know or appreciate what they were doing that they probably shouldn’t participate in the sacrament. In such a case it would be pointless, as they wouldn’t be able to confess and express contrition for their sin.

But if they sorta, kinda, maybe seem to know although don’t fully appreciate the sacrament, then yes, they should participate. The Lord knows whether or not they are contrite.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Excellent question.

I would say that if someone was experiencing dementia to where they didn’t know or appreciate what they were doing that they probably shouldn’t participate in the sacrament. In such a case it would be pointless, as they wouldn’t be able to confess and express contrition for their sin.

But if they sorta, kinda, maybe seem to know although don’t fully appreciate the sacrament, then yes, they should participate. The Lord knows whether or not they are contrite.

What about the state of their soul? What if such a person had a mortal sin on their soul before they got dementia, and then got it bad enough that they couldn’t receive the Sacrament? Would a general absolution be appropriate in this case?

 

[Newbie2]

What about the state of their soul? What if such a person had a mortal sin on their soul before they got dementia, and then got it bad enough that they couldn’t receive the Sacrament? Would a general absolution be appropriate in this case?

Another good question.

I think we’d have to think of this as a similar situation as an unbaptized baby that dies…we’d have to leave that one up to the Almighty.

I would also think that the difference between general absolution and confessional absolution would be moot, as in both cases the penitent does confess, right?

 

[whm]

What about last rites/ anointing of the sick, does it forgive mortal sins in instances where confession is not possible?

 

[choy]

if the person with dimentia still has comprehenion of the Sacrament but can’t remember their sins, they still should go and confess and receive absolution. God will understand that it is not their intention to withhold their sins

now if they don’t have a comprehension of the Sacrament, they still should see the priest who would know how to handle this case. they still need to receive absolution for their sins

 

[centurionguard]

What about the state of their soul? What if such a person had a mortal sin on their soul before they got dementia, and then got it bad enough that they couldn’t receive the Sacrament? Would a general absolution be appropriate in this case?

Would a general absolution be appropriate in this case?

Dementia or not General Absolution as a norm except in time of war or major catastrophe is strictly forbidden in the Catholic Church.

 

[choy]

Dementia or not General Absolution as a norm except in time of war or major catastrophe is strictly forbidden in the Catholic Church.

if the person cannot give a good confession because of a medical condition or illness, then the Anointing of the Sick will forgive their sins

CCC 1532
The special grace of the sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick has as its effects:

• the uniting of the sick person to the passion of Christ, for his own good and that of the whole Church;
• the strengthening, peace, and courage to endure in a Christian manner the sufferings of illness or old age;
  **- the forgiveness of sins, if the sick person was not able to obtain it through the sacrament of Penance; **
• the restoration of health, if it is conducive to the salvation of his soul;
• the preparation for passing over to eternal life.

 

[LilyM]

What about the state of their soul? What if such a person had a mortal sin on their soul before they got dementia, and then got it bad enough that they couldn’t receive the Sacrament? Would a general absolution be appropriate in this case?

Put it this way, their situation would be the same as anyone who, through no fault of their own, is unable to participate in the Sacrament (say someone who is dying in a remote location without access to a priest).

As long as while they are of sound mind they have perfect contrition for their sins (regardless of whether or not they make a formal Act of Contrition) and would go to confession were they able, they will be saved.

No, a general absolution is only to be used in emergency situations where there isn’t TIME for a priest to individually hear people’s confessions, example the firefighters heading into the World Trade Centre on 9/11 or a priest on a plane that’s about to crash or something.

 

[centurionguard]

if the person cannot give a good confession because of a medical condition or illness, then the Anointing of the Sick will forgive their sins

CCC 1532
The special grace of the sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick has as its effects:

• the uniting of the sick person to the passion of Christ, for his own good and that of the whole Church;
• the strengthening, peace, and courage to endure in a Christian manner the sufferings of illness or old age;
  **- the forgiveness of sins, if the sick person was not able to obtain it through the sacrament of Penance; **
• the restoration of health, if it is conducive to the salvation of his soul;
• the preparation for passing over to eternal life.

I appreciate you reminding me about CCC 1532 The Sacrament of the Sick formerly know as Extreme Unction

I guess there are many Catholics who seem to have thought the Sacrament of the Sick was reserved in grave time of near death only. It’s a blessing that this Sacrament can be used often as a priest deems necessary on a sick individual.

In the last 50 some odd years I’ve received this blessed sacrament close to a dozen times by a priest. Choy; thanks for reminding me of the many spiritual benefits of this great sacrament.

Peace
Chris

 

[choy]

you’re welcome

i was thinking about it on my first post but didn’t have the time to look it up. i’m glad i finally got that chance to and share that information here

 

[FrDavid96]

Can a person with significant dementia participate in the sacrament of confession and receive a valid absolution? What if the no longer fully comprehend the sacrament or are even capable of remembering of identify potential mortal sins that only they would (pre-dementia) know about.

Yes. Such a person would confess as best as he is able to do. The priest would still impart absolution, so long as the priest has some reason to believe that if he were still able to confess properly, he would. If the dimentia is very severe, even so severe that the patient isn’t even aware of who/what is around him, the priest can still absolve him although the patient isn’t able to make even an attempt at confession.

The patient would be forgiven based on his own contrition, and that’s something that exists only in the mind/soul and cannot be measured. If he cannot remember the sins, or cannot articulate them, that would not affect the validity of the absolution.

If he has even the slightest reason to believe that the patient would want to be absolved if he were able to confess, the priest should always impart absolution.

 

[FrDavid96]

I appreciate you reminding me about CCC 1532 The Sacrament of the Sick formerly know as Extreme Unction

I guess there are many Catholics who seem to have thought the Sacrament of the Sick was reserved in grave time of near death only. It’s a blessing that this Sacrament can be used often as a priest deems necessary on a sick individual.

In the last 50 some odd years I’ve received this blessed sacrament close to a dozen times by a priest. Choy; thanks for reminding me of the many spiritual benefits of this great sacrament.

Peace
Chris

Christ,
It isn’t “formerly known as Extreme Unction.” It is still called the Sacrament of Unction. If the situation is extreme it is still called Extreme Unction (or at least, it can be called that). The name hasn’t changed. What has changed is that it is no longer reserved to “extreme” situations.

Unction is the Latin word that is translated into English as “anointing.” In English, the word Unction is simply the same word borrowed directly from Latin. There is no difference between the words Unction and Anointing–they are the same word.

The phrases “extreme Unction” or “anointing in an extreme situation” mean exactly the same thing.

 

[choy]

Yes. Such a person would confess as best as he is able to do. The priest would still impart absolution, so long as the priest has some reason to believe that if he were still able to confess properly, he would. If the dimentia is very severe, even so severe that the patient isn’t even aware of who/what is around him, the priest can still absolve him although the patient isn’t able to make even an attempt at confession.

The patient would be forgiven based on his own contrition, and that’s something that exists only in the mind/soul and cannot be measured. If he cannot remember the sins, or cannot articulate them, that would not affect the validity of the absolution.

If he has even the slightest reason to believe that the patient would want to be absolved if he were able to confess, the priest should always impart absolution.

that is what i thought earlier, but wasn’t sure. i’m glad Fr. David that you were able to confirm my suspicions

but if Anointing of the Sick can forgive sins and in this case the person is clearly sick, why do they still have to receive Absolution through the Sacrament of Penance whereas the Anointing would have the same effect?

 

[centurionguard]

Christ,
It isn’t “formerly known as Extreme Unction.” It is still called the Sacrament of Unction. If the situation is extreme it is still called Extreme Unction (or at least, it can be called that). The name hasn’t changed. What has changed is that it is no longer reserved to “extreme” situations.

Unction is the Latin word that is translated into English as “anointing.” In English, the word Unction is simply the same word borrowed directly from Latin. There is no difference between the words Unction and Anointing–they are the same word.

The phrases “extreme Unction” or “anointing in an extreme situation” mean exactly the same thing.

Thank you Father for the recollection. I just thought that because the word Unction was Latin, proponents of Vatican II didn’t want to associate the Latin terminology, and rephrased the term Extreme Unction into the modern English term Sacrament of the Sick which is essentially what you just said.

In the Peace of Christ
Chris

 

[FrDavid96]

that is what i thought earlier, but wasn’t sure. i’m glad Fr. David that you were able to confirm my suspicions

but if Anointing of the Sick can forgive sins and in this case the person is clearly sick, why do they still have to receive Absolution through the Sacrament of Penance whereas the Anointing would have the same effect?

The reason is because the priest should still absolve as long as this is possible. If there’s no time, then Anointing/Unction would suffice, but if there is enough time, then the priest should absolve. But he shouldn’t do that anyway. It’s the other way around. If death is imminent, the Church’s preference is that the sick person should (confess and) be absolved first, then if there is time, anointed; rather than anoint and if there is time absolve.

The Sacrament of Anointing/Unction by itself doesn’t have exactly the same effect as Reconciliation (Confession), because although it obtains the forgiveness of sins, it doesn’t include absolution. That’s why when a priest is confronted with a true emergency and death is imminent, he should say the short form of Absolution first, then immediately Anoint.

Note that the Catechism (1532 that was already quoted here) says that Anointing has the effect of:

• the forgiveness of sins, if the sick person was not able to obtain it through the sacrament of Penance;

That phrase “if the sick person was not able to obtain it…” is an essential element.

 

[MarkThompson]

Thank you Father for the recollection. I just thought that because the word Unction was Latin, proponents of Vatican II didn’t want to associate the Latin terminology, and rephrased the term Extreme Unction into the modern English term Sacrament of the Sick which is essentially what you just said.

In the Peace of Christ
Chris

Interestingly, I have heard (from a quite traditional priest) that the shift was made because “extreme” carries a somewhat more, well, extreme connotation in modern English than in Latin, and as a result too many people would hold off on the Sacrament, or on calling a priest for someone, because, although an illness was very grave and life-threatening, it could probably still get even worse, so it wasn’t truly “extreme” yet. Obviously that’s not what the Church intends.

 

[FrDavid96]

Thank you Father for the recollection. I just thought that because the word Unction was Latin, proponents of Vatican II didn’t want to associate the Latin terminology, and rephrased the term Extreme Unction into the modern English term Sacrament of the Sick which is essentially what you just said.

In the Peace of Christ
Chris

You are correct!

Replacing “Unction” with “Anointing” is one of those times when people try to prove that the Church changed something when in fact, the Church did not.

Vatican II did indeed want the change from “Extreme Unction” to “Unction of the Sick” to emphasize the fact that it is not limited to extreme circumstances. Some translators have played around with the words and artificially changed unction to anointing in an attempt to make the point that more has changed.
See Constitution on the Liturgy, article 73

Latin has only one word “Unction” that can be translated into English as either “Unction” or “Anointing” What the translators do is to use the word Unction when the sentence refers to pre-Vatican II, but the word Anointing in reference to post-Vatican II–sometimes even in the same sentence. This is an artificial way to assert a false-claim that the Sacrament itself is somehow different before or after the Council.

 

[whm]

Thanks for all of the responses. In this case my dad (age 72) was baptized in the Church at age 70, had a mentally (but not physically) debilitating stroke 5 months later and now has Alzheimer’s on top of the stroke. I doubt he has ever said a confession unless they did it in RCIA after he was baptized. A priest could definitely have a conversation with him, I don’t know that he could recollect sins or not, nor make a distinction pre/post baptism.

I will be visiting him this summer, and will try and get him to meet with a priest that I know. My mom is not Catholic (yet) so I don’t know if she will get him there or not on her own. She does help get him to Mass every week.

 

[choy]

The reason is because the priest should still absolve as long as this is possible. If there’s no time, then Anointing/Unction would suffice, but if there is enough time, then the priest should absolve. But he shouldn’t do that anyway. It’s the other way around. If death is imminent, the Church’s preference is that the sick person should (confess and) be absolved first, then if there is time, anointed; rather than anoint and if there is time absolve.

The Sacrament of Anointing/Unction by itself doesn’t have exactly the same effect as Reconciliation (Confession), because although it obtains the forgiveness of sins, it doesn’t include absolution. That’s why when a priest is confronted with a true emergency and death is imminent, he should say the short form of Absolution first, then immediately Anoint.

Note that the Catechism (1532 that was already quoted here) says that Anointing has the effect of:

• the forgiveness of sins, if the sick person was not able to obtain it through the sacrament of Penance;

That phrase “if the sick person was not able to obtain it…” is an essential element.

i see. my understanding was that because a person had (probably severe) dimentia, they may not be able to make a proper confession and therefore not get absolution. so anointing is the only other way to gain forgiveness of sins through the Sacraments. but you’ve cleared that up that they can still receive absolution in that condition. thanks!