Democrats and sex-selective abortion

[Jimbo]

I used to be a pretty hard core Rep in my youth. Alot of my family were, for lack of a better word, ‘cultural Democrats’ in some ways.

For me personally as I aged and read more about Catholicism it really challenged by views on both parties. I vote for the person in local elections. In national ones I tend to vote 3rd party.

I really don’t like the parties anymore.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Candidates like Biden have already said that they disagree with abortion personally but they think it should be a right, so I don’t they’re going to have much conviction in this area either.

Again, if Trump has the sense that God gave a goat, he could do far worse than ask Joe Biden if he is in favor of “freedom of choice” when the couple wants a boy instead of a girl, or doesn’t want the child if it has Down syndrome, or even, if it were possible, if the child could be foreseen to be gay. Intersex, you might be able to tell in utero. Bring that into it too. Make him squirm. Get him in front of the American people on live TV and get him flustered.

HomeschoolDad:

is a white, conservative, heterosexual Christian male. Who is not aware of his privilege.

Fixed that for you.

I invite the reader to note that I did not say this.

I think it can fairly be said that pretty much every identity group in our society has done a prodigious job of staking out its own set of “privileges”, and getting the larger society to obey these. Ask yourself what groups cannot ever have a harsh word said of them, or whose motives or innate virtue can never be questioned, and you’ll have your answer.

 

[Jimbo]

IIRC in Germany you have to have a 3 day waiting period and counseling before an abortion. You might tease it out then.

Though, I doubt you’d see any chance of such restrictions passing in the US.

Abortion in Germany - Wikipedia

 

[Anrakyr]

I invite the reader to note that I did not say this.

We know, made that clear.

Ask yourself what groups cannot ever have a harsh word said of them, or whose motives or innate virtue can never be questioned, and you’ll have your answer.

Sorry, I forgot the reason that we don’t use insulting slang is because of word control not because it’s racist. Silly me.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

IIRC in Germany you have to have a 3 day waiting period and counseling before an abortion. You might tease it out then.

Though, I doubt you’d see any chance of such restrictions passing in the US.

en.wikipedia.org

Abortion in Germany​

Abortion in Germany is illegal under Section 218 of the German criminal code but simultaneously decriminalized under Section 218a of the German criminal code called Exception to liability for abortion, in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and is also permitted later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity. In both cases, a waiting period of three days is required. The counseling, called Schwangerschaftskonfliktberatung (“pregnancy-conflict counseling”), must tak As of…

The Germans sure do like them their big long words, I’ll say that for them…

 

[TK421]

@HomeschoolDad

Eh, I’m not sure I agree with that, even if it is an excellent argument - among many others - for how abortion is harmful to society.

In the current climate in US politics, I think it’s unlikely for a candidate (Trump or Biden) to get refined enough to start talking about theoretical “what if” scenarios for different US laws or court rulings. The debates are relegated to 1-2 minute talking segments, which is enough time to hit a few platform points and maybe say a zinger to make the blue team or red team members of the audience cheer.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

I invite the reader to note that I did not say this.

We know, made that clear.

Not everyone would be sophisticated enough to catch that. That’s why I clarified it.

By the way, be assured I am quite aware that, as a white male of some education, social savoir-faire, and situational awareness, I probably do have the ability to do some things more easily than someone of another identity group. But on the other hand, other identity groups have the ability to maneuver certain situations, and turn things to their advantage, that I do not have.

The debates are relegated to 1-2 minute talking segments, which is enough time to hit a few platform points and maybe say a zinger to make the blue team or red team members of the audience cheer.

And that’s precisely what it would be — a “zinger” that would, among other things, make an excellent sound bite that would be played over and over again in the media.

 

[Anrakyr]

By the way, be assured I am quite aware that, as a white male of some education, social savoir-faire, and situational awareness, I probably do have the ability to do some things more easily than someone of another identity group. But on the other hand, other identity groups have the ability to maneuver certain situations, and turn things to their advantage, that I do not have.

So because society lets you get away with most things the reason some coloured people can get away with a few things makes it unbiased?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

By the way, be assured I am quite aware that, as a white male of some education, social savoir-faire, and situational awareness, I probably do have the ability to do some things more easily than someone of another identity group. But on the other hand, other identity groups have the ability to maneuver certain situations, and turn things to their advantage, that I do not have.

So because society lets you get away with most things the reason some coloured people can get away with a few things makes it unbiased?

I didn’t say that, nor did I parse it into “most” or “few”.

 

[Anrakyr]

I didn’t say that, nor did I parse it into “most” or “few”.

I’m claiming it and asking you to weigh in on that observation.
You can agree, disagree, argue the conditions or anything like that.
However when you hold up the train of thought to object to something benign it makes conversation difficult.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

I didn’t say that, nor did I parse it into “most” or “few”.

I’m claiming it and asking you to weigh in on that observation.
You can agree, disagree, argue the conditions or anything like that.
However when you hold up the train of thought to object to something benign it makes conversation difficult.

This is a rabbit hole I’m not going to go down with you. Every identity group has its privileges. The privileges of white males are long-standing, and some have been achieved at the expense of other groups. The privileges of other groups are of newer origin, and have largely resulted from these groups asserting themselves, calling attention to some very real past injustices, and shaming the larger society into granting them these privileges.

We are going way “off-topic”, and as I have learned in recent months, going off-topic is disliked by many on CAF, and can result in one’s posts being flagged and removed. If you want to create a new thread under the Social Justice forum, to the effect of “is the bundle of privileges enjoyed by white males greater than the bundle of privileges that any other identity group has?”, be my guest. It would be a very interesting topic, and arguments could legitimately be raised either way.

 

[Anrakyr]

This is a rabbit hole I’m not going to go down with you.

Then we have nothing to discuss.

 

[Victoria33]

Biden, Pelosi, and Cuomo do not care for the unborn. As far as I can tell the Democrats see pre-born children as trash and can be swept aside in a moments notice.

It’s not even pre-born anymore, there are all signs that the Democrats would support infanticide, Peter Buttigieg, Barack Obama to name a few have already showed signs of support. Nauseous.

Also, mostly any developed country sees high abortion rates if they know that the child has down syndrome.

I think some states have sought to make these kinds of selective abortions illegal.

I saw the other day, some talk of China’s one child policy, they ended up with 30,000,000 bachelors, How is that working? I think they have tried to halt the policy now.

 

[Lea101]

psychological warfare and demoralization of the enemy are legitimate tactics

Legitimate sure. Moral?

I really don’t care how I get their vote, just as long as I get it.

This is probably where we’ll part ways. For example, I would happily denounce and condemn any pro life Catholic politician who would wink and flirt with say, white supremacists, to get enough votes because that group tends to lean pro life or pro whatever. Ends doesn’t justify the means and all that.

I don’t care for slimey tactics or bad faith attempts to win over anyone because I think it’s transparent after a certain point, and the goggles get too misted up for one to see and recognise true Christian values.

I’m not implying anything about you, mind you, just voicing out how that mentality can lead to something very, very ugly.

we are at war against the forces of evil,

We are always at war with evil. It’s just a matter of what way we are.

This could simply be a cultural difference. I find Christian Americans/the West perhaps tend to be very aggressive with things like this, and I’m aware that a part of it is simply because I don’t know what it’s like to be there but the other part of me feels like it can be a case of self-sabotage. What one might get is a swing to the other side. And then eventually a swing back.

I appreciate techniques people like Ben Shapiro and Crowder tend to do with calmer dialogues in good faith. I think it’s more effective than “owning” people on a platform where they’re not allowed to engage the question fully, although the latter is more gratifying. Don’t know the actual stats though obviously.

Ideally in a debate I would prefer politicians to have enough time and state their plans instead of ideals…but fat chance of that happening lol. I think the way the current political culture is set up in the US encourages people to be stupid about their choices and values.

 

[Jimbo]

go Grosse or go home…

(I probably butchered that, I’m not a real German speaker)

 

[HomeschoolDad]

go Grosse or go home…

(I probably butchered that, I’m not a real German speaker)

“Geh gross oder geh nach Hause” would be a literal translation, but something probably gets lost there.

HomeschoolDad:

psychological warfare and demoralization of the enemy are legitimate tactics

Legitimate sure. Moral?

Yes. Was it moral to make psychological war upon and demoralize the Nazis? The Viet Cong? Al-Qaeda? ISIS?

HomeschoolDad:

I really don’t care how I get their vote, just as long as I get it.

This is probably where we’ll part ways. For example, I would happily denounce and condemn any pro life Catholic politician who would wink and flirt with say, white supremacists, to get enough votes because that group tends to lean pro life or pro whatever. Ends doesn’t justify the means and all that.

Let me clarify. In the 2020 presidential race, we are flying through as much of the eye of a needle as ever existed. If Trump can get re-elected — and let me be clear that there are a lot of Republicans I’d far prefer to see at the top of the ticket than Donald Trump — and if the Republicans can keep at least 50 seats in the Senate, then we may get at least one more Supreme Court Justice who may join with other Justices to chip away some of the “rights” asserted under Roe v Wade. Failing that, it’s game over for at least two more years, possibly four, possibly six or eight.

Personally, I think Biden shot himself in the foot by picking Kamala Harris, and is going to have a harder time getting re-elected, than if he’d picked a less-polarizing running mate. Vowing to pick a woman was very self-limiting for him to do. We shall see.

HomeschoolDad:

we are at war against the forces of evil,

We are always at war with evil. It’s just a matter of what way we are.

This could simply be a cultural difference… What one might get is a swing to the other side. And then eventually a swing back.

American politics are always a swing in one direction, followed by a swing in the other. Every dog has his day.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I also think it’s highly probable that selective abortions of males will become more common by the 22nd/23rd century, or perhaps in this century.

And will this be sexist? Why or why not?

Or am I reading more into this than is there — does “selective abortions of males will become more common” mean it will be more common than it is now, or does it mean that more males will be aborted than females?

Tis_Bearself:

I’m registered Dem

This explains a lot.

In defense of @Tis_Bearself, there is a Democrat tradition in my family, and in fact I am forced to state a preference for the Democrats, to be able to vote in their primaries. All of these folks who get access to my state’s voter rolls think I am a Democrat, and I get tons of mail and marketing calls on behalf of Democrat candidates. For what it’s worth, if both parties were equally pro-life, I would be far more aligned with the Democrats — universal health care, Medicare for All, making disability payments easier to get, free school meals for all pupils, the list goes on. And, yes, I would raise taxes. Nothing in this world is free.