Demolishing "modern" churches?

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Am I the only one who is disturbed by the architecture of some of these modernist churches in the last 50 years? Is it sinful to wish that they be demolished and replaced by traditional architecture that was present before Vatican II?
 
Am I the only one who is disturbed by the architecture of some of these modernist churches in the last 50 years? Is it sinful to wish that they be demolished and replaced by traditional architecture that was present before Vatican II?
and you of course will be the leading contributor and fundraiser of the capital campaign to replace such buildings with new churches?
 
It’s more like 60 years but who’s counting?

Anyway, some of those churches are indeed hideous, but some aren’t half bad, at least in relative terms. It’s mostly in the accoutrements, and it would be silly to incur the expense of demolition and rebuilding where the structure itself is sound. In general, most of the former can at least be brought to the standard of the latter with a little work here and there (including changing most, if not all, the furnishings, including adding a solid free-standing altar that can be used for ad orientem celebration. And of course that means there is at least a pradella, if not a rail with a gate).
 
took a tour of some of the churches within the city of Cleveland slated for closing and noted how many of the actual buildings, even though cherished by their parishioners, are objectively old, ugly, and exemplify the worst in ecclesial architecture of the late 19th early 20th c–ugly brick or facade, ugly design, inharmonious architecture etc.
 
I am in full accord with the notion of knocking down, burning, and otherwise demolishing such churches as Los Angeles Cathedral, for example. These sorts of formless blobs and shapeless blocks must be utterly destroyed. Not only do I believe they are offensive to God, but they make me personally wish to reject (contemporary) Catholicism as a man-centered religion, for all the architectural narcissism they display. Each new radical modernist structure is just another experiment in how far the architect can go without starting a riot.

Please order, buy, rent, or borrow “Ugly as Sin” by Michael Rose. It explains not only the beauty of traditional (pre-Bauhaus) architecture, but also the wondrous morality of it. Even the very space in which we gather to receive God must be awe-inspiring. Our worst relativists will never admit that ultra-modern space-ship churches are awe-inspiring or wondrous; however, they will say that the same are ‘comfortable’ and ‘feel-at-home’. Naturally, we’re not in Church to feel cosy or at home. The infallible symmetry of God’s perfect, simple Trinity should be reflected in our temples dedicated to His Name.

In my opinion, the pagan Parthenon in Athens would be a more fitting space (without all the polytheist imagery, of course) to worship God than most churches established after 1950. This is the sign of degeneracy instituted by Schönberg, Expressionism, and Modernism.
 
Am I the only one who is disturbed by the architecture of some of these modernist churches in the last 50 years? Is it sinful to wish that they be demolished and replaced by traditional architecture that was present before Vatican II?
We have been building houses for ourselves. it is time to go back and build Houses for our Lord.
 
Am I the only one who is disturbed by the architecture of some of these modernist churches in the last 50 years? Is it sinful to wish that they be demolished and replaced by traditional architecture that was present before Vatican II?
No matter how hard you wish or put on those red ruby slippers and tap your heals together you are not going to live before the 1960’s. If you are interested in beautiful churches then Europe is your answer. As America expanded in the period after WWll new churches were built with the money available. Remember that the very first members of the Church met in homes not in magnificent cathedrals. Maybe instead of dreaming of tearing things down you could be proactive about changing the things you dislike so much.
I’ll pray that you find some joy and contentment in your young life and that college will help you learn about the world.
 
No. Ugly can be had at any price.
Very true Apollos! Just like with other items, architectural styles change over time. What was thought to be avant garde in 1950 is considered ugly today. I hope that most of us are more worried about what happens inside our churches than what we see from the street. I visited the Cologne Cathedral last summer and was also able to visit churches in Paris, Amsterdam, St. Petersburg and Poland. Most were built over 150 years ago and in most cases 300 years ago. They were financed and constructed in a different era.
 
I am in full accord with the notion of knocking down, burning, and otherwise demolishing such churches as Los Angeles Cathedral, for example. These sorts of formless blobs and shapeless blocks must be utterly destroyed. Not only do I believe they are offensive to God, but they make me personally wish to reject (contemporary) Catholicism as a man-centered religion, for all the architectural narcissism they display. Each new radical modernist structure is just another experiment in how far the architect can go without starting a riot.

Please order, buy, rent, or borrow “Ugly as Sin” by Michael Rose. It explains not only the beauty of traditional (pre-Bauhaus) architecture, but also the wondrous morality of it. Even the very space in which we gather to receive God must be awe-inspiring. Our worst relativists will never admit that ultra-modern space-ship churches are awe-inspiring or wondrous; however, they will say that the same are ‘comfortable’ and ‘feel-at-home’. Naturally, we’re not in Church to feel cosy or at home. The infallible symmetry of God’s perfect, simple Trinity should be reflected in our temples dedicated to His Name.

In my opinion, the pagan Parthenon in Athens would be a more fitting space (without all the polytheist imagery, of course) to worship God than most churches established after 1950. This is the sign of degeneracy instituted by Schönberg, Expressionism, and Modernism.
I agree with you 1100000000000%, BUT, who would pay for the reconstruction of the sacred buildings?
You will like the book: Ugly As Sin: catholic-and-christian.blogspot.com/2009/05/how-ugly-churches-breed-godless.html

GLORIOUS OFFENSES:

View attachment 8917View attachment 8918
Before After
(The above is a true renovation of a cathedral recently)
Would that before-and-after picture be of the Rochester cathedral? I think I have seen it on Cleansing Fire (the blog)
 
No matter how hard you wish or put on those red ruby slippers and tap your heals together you are not going to live before the 1960’s. If you are interested in beautiful churches then Europe is your answer. As America expanded in the period after WWll new churches were built with the money available. Remember that the very first members of the Church met in homes not in magnificent cathedrals. Maybe instead of dreaming of tearing things down you could be proactive about changing the things you dislike so much.
I’ll pray that you find some joy and contentment in your young life and that college will help you learn about the world.
Money had little to do with it. The American Bishops wanted desperately to fit into a predominantly Protestant country. This meant low key (build our churches to look like theirs) and no more statues than absolutely necessary. I know you would like to believe differently but the past cannot be changed simply because it doesn’t suit our purposes.
 
Our Gregorian schola has moved to a new parish (we rehearse there and tour different parishes every month).

It is a modern 1960s church. You may love, or hate the architecture (I find it bright, airy and spartan which I happen to like), but you have to appreciate the fact that the tabernacle is on the altar, and there’s still a communion rail (not that it’s ever used, but that’s another issue).

So it isn’t all bad.
 
Am I the only one who is disturbed by the architecture of some of these modernist churches in the last 50 years? Is it sinful to wish that they be demolished and replaced by traditional architecture that was present before Vatican II?
The people who built these monstrosities sure didn’t shed a tear as they destroyed churches built by the sacrifice of our forefathers.

I think it is a noble wish you have because you wish to see God properly glorified through our buildings dedicated to His worship. Don’t let a liberal mindset which sees all confrontation as evil fool you into thinking that weakness in the face of evil is a virtue.
 
Am I the only one who is disturbed by the architecture of some of these modernist churches in the last 50 years? Is it sinful to wish that they be demolished and replaced by traditional architecture that was present before Vatican II?
Perhaps wasteful to the extreme. So…who gets to finance and who gets sole authority on what is “acceptable”. Heck…out here we have enough trouble just to keep up repairs on what we have.

Hmmmmm…sorry Lord, I was going to feed the hungry and clothe the poor but I built a beautiful new cathedral instead…:rolleyes:

Maybe a better idea would be for any new churches being built to be more traditional…of course I have a suspicion that someone will find something to grumble about.
 
Perhaps wasteful to the extreme. So…who gets to finance and who gets sole authority on what is “acceptable”. Heck…out here we have enough trouble just to keep up repairs on what we have.

Hmmmmm…sorry Lord, I was going to feed the hungry and clothe the poor but I built a beautiful new cathedral instead…:rolleyes:

Maybe a better idea would be for any new churches being built to be more traditional…of course I have a suspicion that someone will find something to grumble about.
Im just sick and tired of catholic churches that look like protestant mega-churches
 
Am I the only one who is disturbed by the architecture of some of these modernist churches in the last 50 years? Is it sinful to wish that they be demolished and replaced by traditional architecture that was present before Vatican II?
IMHO

Sinful? nah, probably not

A personal opinion which you are entitled to hold? without a doubt

A comment that suggests some deeper issue? well, I’m not a psychologist but…
 
Im just sick and tired of catholic churches that look like protestant mega-churches
I believe that is entirely the point of modernisation in America. 🙂 The more Protestant a nation in its makeup, the bigger was the rush to change sanctuary and façade. The Blessed Lord was shifted to the side so we could make Protestants feel more comfortable about our “cannibalism”. Bucer, Melancthon, Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli would be quite happy with the shift from Altar->Priest->People to Priest->Altar->Table, and the moving of the tabernacle to the side chapels. Have you seen pre-Vatican II Lutheran churches? There is always a “picnic table” and no tabernacle thereupon. Thank God it was not a real requirement of Vatican II that these things be done, or else Archbishop Fulton Sheen would not have lamented Sanctuary-changing, as he did in the 1970’s. What can be done inside can be undone.

The problem here is not with sanctuaries, but with the overall structure of churches. A huge block of concrete shaped like a “plus” + sign, and covered in abstract murals, means and signifies nothing but narcissim. The Protestants invented narcissism in official morality (cf. Luther’s disagreement with the Epistle of James), whereas the most degenerate popes never even imagined changing the Bible to suit their needs. Anything that moves us towards even looking like Protestants should be condemned and reversed, if already enacted. Nicholas Owen and the Jesuit Martyrs of England did not die so we could appease the descendants of their murderers with lunch-tables and undisciplined blocks.
Perhaps wasteful to the extreme. So…who gets to finance and who gets sole authority on what is “acceptable”. Heck…out here we have enough trouble just to keep up repairs on what we have.

Hmmmmm…sorry Lord, I was going to feed the hungry and clothe the poor but I built a beautiful new cathedral instead…:rolleyes:

Maybe a better idea would be for any new churches being built to be more traditional…of course I have a suspicion that someone will find something to grumble about.
The more liberal-“looking” churches inspire almost no devotion; realistically, this can be seen in the floundering Homeless Outreach programs based in ugly churches. On the other hand, the gigantic edifices always have flourishing homeless programs. People simply “feel” (and thus act) more holy in an ancient-looking church. Lex credendi, Lex orandi? 😉 Devotion is required to inspire men to feed the poor. Classical architecture inspires devotion, a sense of awe, displacement into another World, and the presence of the Most High. A shopping mall does not exhibit these tendencies, and modern churches are simply shopping malls. Sure, it’s all psychology… but every little thing that affects us must be used for the greater glory of God. We are not above psychology simply because we’re “more advanced” these days - sin remains, sadly.
I agree with you 1100000000000%, BUT, who would pay for the reconstruction of the sacred buildings?
I believe the Roman Catholic Church has a not-insignificant amount of money. How were all these despicable travesties of architecture, fit only for “Frank Lloyd Wrong”, financed in the first place? It was either by charismatic (in the traditional sense) theologians, fiery bishops, and righteous priests, or by progressive protestant/liberal Catholic businessmen with a lot of money to throw around. We just need to find their polar opposites to create real churches.

Holy is God in eternity.
 
On a side note, this reminds me of the time I went to visit LA and asked a lady in the bus if there were any old churches we could visit. Being from Europe, I had a good laugh when she said that ‘yes, we have very old churches, this one church is from the 1930’s!’
 
Perhaps wasteful to the extreme. So…who gets to finance and who gets sole authority on what is “acceptable”. Heck…out here we have enough trouble just to keep up repairs on what we have.

Hmmmmm…sorry Lord, I was going to feed the hungry and clothe the poor but I built a beautiful new cathedral instead…:rolleyes:

Maybe a better idea would be for any new churches being built to be more traditional…of course I have a suspicion that someone will find something to grumble about.
I dont think money is the problem. the problem was the temptation of making the CC go with the times. it surely there was no shortage of money when it came to pay settlements to victims. so, that is our punishment for trying to build houses for ourselves instead of building it for our Lord. I remember talking to a friend of mine, she is a protestant anti Catholic, but she told me something very interesting. she told me when she went to europe, she decided to enter into the CC, the old ones. to my surprise she told me that she really felt the presence of our Lord in that Church. the beauty, the whole climate in the Church, the mysticism within the Church, the Chant. to the contrary, she cannot say the same thing about the modern Church. there is a reason why our ancestrals built the Church in a certain way. they had a zeal for our Lord. today, the buildings represents what we believe, which is very little faith and no zeal for te things of our Lord.
 
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