Demon/devil pacts in Dungeons&Dragons

[CeaselessMedik]

The warlock class in the new edition of D&D is based on making a pact with the fey, a great old one (think H.P. Lovecraft), or a demon/devil (basically another species of demon). They’re still typically heroic when played by a player, but does this mean D&D shouldn’t be played?

 

[christus_vincit]

The warlock class in the new edition of D&D is based on making a pact with the fey, a great old one (think H.P. Lovecraft), or a demon/devil (basically another species of demon). They’re still typically heroic when played by a player, but does this mean D&D shouldn’t be played?

I’d stay away. Often times Satan can deceive us by disguising real evil in the form of a game. These things aren’t as innocent as they seem and can invite evil into your life.

 

[Pat_Payne]

Oh no, not this again…

I will admit, I do have heartburn when the names of actual demons are mentioned in the game (some of the “statted, therefore you can kill them” villains are Asmodeus and Beelzebub, and in one issue of Dragon someone unofficially statted up Satan – that one was quickly forgotten and is an old shame for painfully obvious reasons – that does bug me, as real-life evil forces should not crop up in a game. But OTOH, DMs can easily ignore or exclude those names from the game.)

That doesn’t mean I think that having a villain summon demons and end up having his comeuppance come either at the claws of said demons or at the swords of adventurers putting an end to him is harmful to souls. I don’t like (and as a DM actively forbid) heroes or player characters from summoning demons, as it is not a heroic act or one to be emulated by players. But to say that its mere existence in a fantasy game is inherently Satanist is a bridge too far for me. It’s how it’s used.

I doubt that Satan inspired Gary Gygax to create D&D. It is, when played right, a good and wholesome activity. However, he can use careless players as tools.

Then again, he can use beer, which is good and beneficial and a sign that God loves us very much, to turn careless drinkers into alcoholics. Or sex, which in the form intended by God is a live giving act, into a selfish and narcissistic and mortally sinful behavior. Or food, necessary to life, can easily become gluttony. None of those things are evil in and of themselves. Everything is good and is blessed by God. It is how it is used or abused that turns it sinful and evil. And it is that potential that the Devil corrupts with.

All of that being said, if Holy Mother Church were to exercise her ordinary magesterium and explicitly tell us that D&D or other RPGs were sinful, I would stop playing them out of obedience. But no such pronouncement has been made as far as I know.

 

[1newcatholic]

The warlock class in the new edition of D&D is based on making a pact with the fey, a great old one (think H.P. Lovecraft), or a demon/devil (basically another species of demon). They’re still typically heroic when played by a player, but does this mean D&D shouldn’t be played?

So you play fantasy games in which you kill other people and can have sexual relationships with other characters, but you’re a little weirded out because demons or spirits show up as part of the backstory?

It’s just a game. If it bothers your conscience, don’t play it.

 

[Razanir]

beer … is good and beneficial and a sign that God loves us very much

But yeah. It’s the same deal as with Harry Potter. If you’re mentally stable enough to tell the difference between fact and fiction, it can be fine. But if you’re the type of person who may be convinced that magic is real upon reading Rowling’s books, then maybe the warlock isn’t the best example.

As it stands, I can already think of interesting ways to “baptize” the warlock. What if your character was forced into a pact as a child, and is now working to become a force of good despite it? You could do similar in Pathfinder. Their sorcerers have bloodlines that grant the powers, including a demon somewhere in your ancestry. Same deal. It could make for an interesting antihero to have a character who got his magic from a demon in their ancestry (which can even manifest itself as claws or bat wings), but who uses their powers for good.

Sure the warlock is slightly occultic. But that same detail also opens up creative character concepts.

 

[C794]

Which is all okay because while the occult is cleary evil, it is not bad to create a fictional character who is involved in it. Especially if you know it’s not morally permissible. I don’t play D&D, but I like to create characters within other mediums; many of these are evil or cooperate with evil. This isn’t because I think it’s cool or find evil appealing, but because I created a character who does. From my understanding it would be the same with D&D.

 

[christus_vincit]

Which is all okay because while the occult is cleary evil, it is not bad to create a fictional character who is involved in it. Especially if you know it’s not morally permissible. I don’t play D&D, but I like to create characters within other mediums; many of these are evil or cooperate with evil. This isn’t because I think it’s cool or find evil appealing, but because I created a character who does. From my understanding it would be the same with D&D.

It is never wise for a Catholic to play the role of a demonic “warlock”. Fictional or not - why would you want to emulate such evil or associate yourself with it in any way? Would the saints have played this game in the role of a warlock?

 

[edwest2]

It’s troubling, and I don’t mean that in a knee-jerk way. I work for a company that publishes fantasy fiction books. I’ve read a lot of manuscripts. Selling your soul to the devil in a fixed story setting is one thing. Role-playing games can take something like that and modify it to suit the DM and/or players. I’ve played the older version of D&D.

Example: If I played with a group and knew the DM well, this pact with the demon/devil thing would just be a story element. A bit of fantasy and nothing more. It should end badly. The end.

OR, people start talking about “What if it’s real?” Or decide to look into it. Some people start out curious and then find themselves reading books that claim to contain “real magic” and so on. As a DM, I think I would not include the option to make a pact with a demon or devil in my games. I would not be comfortable with presenting this concept to a group of strangers or friends.

I mean using demons and devils as bad guys is fine. “We defeat the demon horde!” “We use our (fictional) magic to send the devil(s) back to their home dimension.”

But pacts? No. Especially in a game with a bunch of strangers or even a few strangers.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

It is never wise for a Catholic to play the role of a demonic “warlock”. Fictional or not - why would you want to emulate such evil or associate yourself with it in any way? Would the saints have played this game in the role of a warlock?

Good point. The DM could introduce such bad guys as non-player, evil characters. Fighting evil to defend the good and innocent people is common in books, but role-playing, or acting it out, could lead to bad consequences in real life. Human curiosity being what it is.

Best,
Ed

 

[C794]

It is never wise for a Catholic to play the role of a demonic “warlock”. Fictional or not - why would you want to emulate such evil or associate yourself with it in any way? Would the saints have played this game in the role of a warlock?

having never played D&D I can’t say for certain, but I doubt that playing such a character is trying to emulate it and I’m certain it’s not associating oneself with evil. My closest experience to D&D would be roleplaying video games and in these your character is just a character in a story. In playing these games, I look at the provided background information and decide who the character is. A lot of times it makes more sense for the character to be evil. While doing this I feel like I’m just watching a bad character in a movie. Often times I create evil characters to be am antagonist to my good ones. This does involve playing as the evil person to help understand their motivations and personality. I approach such games as telling a story; I don’t see how D&D is any different.

 

[Razanir]

It is never wise for a Catholic to play the role of a demonic “warlock”. Fictional or not - why would you want to emulate such evil or associate yourself with it in any way? Would the saints have played this game in the role of a warlock?

Two cases immediately spring to mind:

1. You’re the DM and you need a villain.
2. As I hypothesized above, you could play as a character who once made a pact with a demon, but who now tries to use it as a force of good.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

Talk about insanity look at this link it will give all an idea how evil the world has become with Satan, would like your thoughts.

aleteia.org/en/society/article/vancouvers-dilemma-what-to-do-about-that-9-foot-naked-statue-of-satan-5874041625772032

 

[edwest2]

Talk about insanity look at this link it will give all an idea how evil the world has become with Satan, would like your thoughts.

aleteia.org/en/society/article/vancouvers-dilemma-what-to-do-about-that-9-foot-naked-statue-of-satan-5874041625772032

Yes, Satan is being marketed more and more. A Black Mass in the US, a new Satanic Temple in a US city. Lines have to be drawn. It should be obvious to everyone that claims of Satanism in North America were not exaggerations. It’s real. Satan is real. Satanists exist.

Peace,
Ed

 

[CeaselessMedik]

To those who said it’s okay if you handle it right: now my OCD is acting up, thinking perhaps the decision to include this content might imply deeper personal immorality. (Specifically, my mind turns to abortion, but that’s a big obsession of mine. This doubt is not limited to that.) Should I refrain from buying more D&D content?

 

[Pat_Payne]

To those who said it’s okay if you handle it right: now my OCD is acting up, thinking perhaps the decision to include this content might imply deeper personal immorality. (Specifically, my mind turns to abortion, but that’s a big obsession of mine. This doubt is not limited to that.) Should I refrain from buying more D&D content?

Honestly? This particular question (concerning your mental state and what is appropriate or not given it) is best left to professionals – your priest or spiritual director (who can give you much more concrete spiritual advice than we can), and a mental health professional (if you have been diagnosed with OCD, he or she can help you with this from the medical angle). All we on this forum can do is take wild stabs in the dark as far as it goes with the double whammy of OCD and possible scrupulosity.

If your confessor or spiritual director says for you to stop, then stop. If your therapist says it’s probably not a good idea to play right now, then stop. However, us answering that question for you is not going to be an authoritative answer, and you’re probably going to get multiple contradictory answers from the people on the boards.

 

[CeaselessMedik]

Well, I’m actually an atheist. I come here because I share a lot of ideas with you.

 

[PolarGuy]

I consider it sinful to play anything other than first-edition D&D. All the new stuff is just junk.

 

[Melissa]

I consider it sinful to play anything other than first-edition D&D. All the new stuff is just junk.

I’m 2nd ed AD&D, myself. It’s 3e (no 3 for me!) where it went off the rails.

But seriously … here we go again.

The thing is that demons, magic, vorpal swords, and such are all fictional devices within the game, and ‘summoning a demon’ is handled through the rolling of dice (‘oops, you got a little tiny imp … on the plus side, he seems easy to control’ or … ‘uh oh … you just summoned a RBG and you feel his claws slice through you as it suddenly becomes a whole lot hotter. Here’s a new character sheet. What would you like to play this time?’) There’s just no comparison with anything in the real world. Having a character make a pact with a demon is just having two fictional beings interact in a particular way. Even calling them by the names assigned to real demons (if those are actually their names) doesn’t make the game creatures real.

That said, people with difficulties discerning fact and fiction, people with issues with obsessiveness, and other like issues should not be involved.

 

[Pat_Payne]

Well, I’m actually an atheist. I come here because I share a lot of ideas with you.

Whoops – my bad The stuff about the therapist still holds, however

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’d stay away. Often times Satan can deceive us by disguising real evil in the form of a game. These things aren’t as innocent as they seem and can invite evil into your life.

Seeing as I’m raring to try the new edition and have all intentions on being a warlock plumbing into the secrets of the ancient ones… I’ll give you a call when people around me start having manic visions of non-euclidean architecture and fourth-fifth-sixth-dimensional cephalopods. :whacky:

It is never wise for a Catholic to play the role of a demonic “warlock”. Fictional or not - why would you want to emulate such evil or associate yourself with it in any way? Would the saints have played this game in the role of a warlock?

If these saints were Renaissance and like their Shakespeare, I can actually imagine them having pacts with the fey folk. That means fauns, satyrs, and even the faerie queen, Titania herself!

Uh-huh. Such evil indeed. (“Whatcha gonna do Ms. Saint? Summon Philoctetes to train you into a hero? HAHAHAHAHA!!!”)

OR, people start talking about “What if it’s real?” Or decide to look into it. Some people start out curious and then find themselves reading books that claim to contain “real magic” and so on.

Ed, if the likes of Cthulhu are real, then all life is meaningless. Otherwise, it’s all just gonna be Lovecraft Lite. Same aesthetics but half the characteristic hopelessness of the original.