Demons

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Faith1960 said:
What if it isn’t?
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Anything is possible, but you have to keep in mind, modern day science, and our ‘experts’ of today have their own agenda, and this usually does not include God, they credit creation to primordial ooze eventually turning into a human being LOL, in other words, they will do everything they can to discredit God and the spirit world, and will never even acknowledge or admit they exist. They think they have it all figured it out, just like every other generation, but like every other generation, eventually they are proven wrong.

I mean, even if it was true, how many experts today would come out and tell people certain things are most surely the result of demonic presence or activity? LOL that would NEVER happen, they would come up with a normal, natural explanation.
 
Hello Tennure.
tennure said:
youtube.com/watch?v=bA9SCJRYRb4

Locust’s are actually very friendly creatures, they pose no threat to human life, but after they sprayed them all with multiple pesticides, they later told everybody hey it’s “Kosher” you can eat them!

If you follow the Bible then you follow the word of Rome and the word of “Apollion” apollo, the Roman Sun God…
“How bright thou art, oh Son of the Dawn…”

If you follow Islam then you follow the Pagan rock of Memphis…

If you follow the Tohrah then you follow the Chaldee and their vision of a one world Government where they turn the temple of the “On High!” into a place of buisness…

Fear not the serpent, for it does not decieve…

3.bp.blogspot.com/-kWIvLdfWRMM/UCXSh6Uc6XI/AAAAAAAAH7I/prX5gpPT7Mw/s640/Caduceus.png

It just bite’s you if you p*ss it off!
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So you consider yourself a friend of the devil huh? And I don’t mean a Grateful Dead fan. Remember them?

Glenda
 
Hello Mikelke.
mikekle said:
Can we know FOR SURE we are right about this though? I tend to believe Jesus versus our modern day experts on such things…what if it really is demonic activity, but our secular society just ‘labels’ as something else, for a variety of reasons, but mainly so they dont have to acknowledge the spiritual realm/ God.
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Keep in mind that the same modern society that labels things demonic in origin as mental illness also calls infanticide a reproductive health measure. And they call it progress.

Glenda
 
Hello Mtndweller.
MtnDwellar said:
It is not a mistake to think that holy objects and holy people repel demons.

There are demons and there are DEMONS. Some demons will be repelled by the mention of the holy name of Jesus. Other demons take more effort. Sacramentals do indeed offer protection.

Sacraments are effective. By virtue of our baptisms we have the right to command demons with the power of the Holy Spirit and in the name of Jesus. The Church gives us all of the weapons we need to fight the diabolic. Christ did not ascend into heaven and leave us defenseless.
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Why did you twist my words? I didn’t say one word against the use of sacramentals at all. Read what I wrote again S-L-O-W-L-Y. It is a misguided notion to think that Baptism reduced the number of demons nor is it true that Holy objects and persons will ensure that nothing demonic occurs or that one is “safe” from demons. That is magical thinking and distorts things in favor of the demon.

Glenda
 
Hello Faith.
Faith1960 said:
In my book Evidence of Satan in the Modern World, author Leon Christianiti says
“There is no reason to believe that the number of cases of possession quoted in the Gospels represent the normal number either at that period or today. It is possible, even probable that such cases would occur with extraordinary frequency in the neighborhood of Jesus. The union in one person of deity and human nature, as in Jesus, Son of Man and Son of God, would, by God’s will, give rise to its counterpart in repeated manifestations of diabolism.”
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That particular book is problematic. It contains a very dangerous notion that perhaps person possessed are somehow working out their salvation and gain Heaven by their suffering. This is false. Discard that book immediately. It is dangerous.

Glenda
 
glendab said:
Hello Faith.

it is a mistake to think that the presence of Holy persons or objects keeps demons away. They can both be present at the same time, otherwise no actual exorcisms would be necessary. The demons would simply flee when a holy person or object came near. Not so. I’ve read accounts of the Blessed Sacrament being used to repel demons during the Rite and it failing and causing a bigger commotion then usual when the Priest attempts to either give Communion to the possessed or exposes it for confirmation of demonic presence. Yikes! :eek:

Glenda
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glendab said:
Hello Mtndweller.

Why did you twist my words? I didn’t say one word against the use of sacramentals at all. Read what I wrote again S-L-O-W-L-Y. It is a misguided notion to think that Baptism reduced the number of demons nor is it true that Holy objects and persons will ensure that nothing demonic occurs or that one is “safe” from demons. That is magical thinking and distorts things in favor of the demon.

Glenda
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Please do not condescend by asking me to read S-L-O-W-L-Y. My reading comprehension is adequate even at a high speed.

I did not twist a single word of yours or anyone elses. Your post did not even mention the word Baptism as you seem to claim. Your own words are, “it is a mistake to think that the presence of Holy persons or objects keeps demons away”

I have a different opinion which is contrary to your statement. My opinion is that holy people and holy objects (sacramentals) do keep demons away.
 
glendab said:
Hello Faith.

That particular book is problematic. It contains a very dangerous notion that perhaps person possessed are somehow working out their salvation and gain Heaven by their suffering. This is false. Discard that book immediately. It is dangerous.

Glenda
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Ah. Baloney. It has a nihiil obstat and imprimitur and I’m keeping it.
 
Some holy people have been possessed. Being possessed does not necessarily mean that a person is not in a state of grace or is not working out his salvation. God bless you.
 
Nacho45 said:
I have no idea why, but thanks.🤷

It’s usually the point when a Protestant realizes the Catholic Church isn’t what they were told growing up.
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I am sure you did not intend it this way, but it seemed to (or at least pointed in the direction) say the Church’s teachings are made valid by Protestant agreement.
 
glendab said:
Hello Faith.

That particular book is problematic. It contains a very dangerous notion that perhaps person possessed are somehow working out their salvation and gain Heaven by their suffering. This is false. Discard that book immediately. It is dangerous.

Glenda
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There is a similar and Catholic concept which is not problematic at all - redemptive suffering.

Fr. Fortea and others think that Anneliese Michel was a victim soul. Her possession served to help not only Anneliese, but also mankind in general.
 
Hello MtnDweller.
MtnDwellar said:
There is a similar and Catholic concept which is not problematic at all - redemptive suffering.

Fr. Fortea and others think that Anneliese Michel was a victim soul. Her possession served to help not only Anneliese, but also mankind in general.
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**If demonic possession was good for a soul, Jesus wouldn’t have cast them out. **

He would’ve called His disciples around the Gadarene Demoniac and said “Look how easy it is to get to Heaven - just let yourself be possessed by devils! See how redemptive his suffering is! Hand your body and soul over to Satan and be saved!”

Did He say those things? No. I read that book and very gladly threw it out. I feel so strongly about the advise in that book, that I also think the Imprimatur need re-evaluation. Seriously. Not everything with one these days deserves one.

Glenda
 
glendab said:
Hello MtnDweller.

If demonic possession was good for a soul, Jesus wouldn’t have cast them out.

He would’ve called His disciples around the Gadarene Demoniac and said “Look how easy it is to get to Heaven - just let yourself be possessed by devils! See how redemptive his suffering is! Hand your body and soul over to Satan and be saved!”

Did He say those things? No. I read that book and very gladly threw it out. I feel so strongly about the advise in that book, that I also think the Imprimatur need re-evaluation. Seriously. Not everything with one these days deserves one.

Glenda
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My sarcasm detector is reading 10.
Assuming there is a modicum of seriousness in your post:

Any suffering has a redemptive quality if offered in union with Christ’s suffering. Christ commanded us to carry our crosses and follow Him.

Possession does not involve handing one’s soul over to Satan.
 
Faith1960 said:
Why are there so many demons in Jesus’ day? Were some of these mentally ill.persons? If so, isn’t the Bible wrong about calling them demons?
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i have seen the types that are described in the book

Hostage to the Devil: The Possession and Exorcism of Five Contemporary Americans by Malachi Martin (Jan 6, 1999)

unclean- spirits are kind of like – a computer or smart phone virus-- some are more active and some are more benine – it is easy to see the evidence of spiritual demonic activity - after you are born agaiin–

it is just another aspect of being spiritually functioning as a christian – – as saint paul says in 1 cor - 1;20 -

“Yes!” The promises of God are “Yes” and the promises of God are “Amen.” Jesus said … God is looking for someone to say “Yea” and “Amen” to Him. … And if He’s not your Lord of all, you gradually, eventually find that He’s not your Lord at all.
 
Hello Montaindweller.
MtnDwellar said:
My sarcasm detector is reading 10.
Assuming there is a modicum of seriousness in your post:

Any suffering has a redemptive quality if offered in union with Christ’s suffering. Christ commanded us to carry our crosses and follow Him.

Possession does not involve handing one’s soul over to Satan.
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Have you ever read the offending book?

Glenda
 
I would have to agree with Mtndwellar Possession can affect body and soul, or just body. For a soul to be possessed would be an injustice attributed to God if the person had no choice, The soul has free will, and intelligence. For the devil to enter the soul would be to give up free will, and intelligence and he would be the director of both. Such is not the case.
but in the case of Judas who had such a close relationship with Jesus, his sin was all the more serious involving his will, and mind. It is said that “Satan entered in…” He gave access to Satan by his free will and choice. The result was no hope, and suicide. Satan’s influence and control. This isn’t the case with all possessions that are just bodily, and if my memory serve me right, I read of a case of possession that was translated as a redemptive act for all the suffering the person experience, she was finally freed.
 
Just got my copy of An Exorcist Tells His Story, by Gabriele Amorth. The forward is by Fr. Benedict Groeschel and he sounds ver skeptical ablut deminic possession, saying he didn’t initially want to write the forward, that as a pshychologist he has trouble with Fr. Amorths approach.

He said that Fr. Amorth is "by no mens naive abiout the pshychological causes of aberrant behavior his own work is not a form of psychotherapy.

He writes about “those possessed by evil spirits” in quotation marks.

I googled him and it said online that his forward is “tepid” an that he has seen diabolical oppression, but never in his years as a priest has he seen diabolical possession.

If he’s skeptical, we should be, too.
 
Faith1960 said:
Just got my copy of An Exorcist Tells His Story, by Gabriele Amorth. The forward is by Fr. Benedict Groeschel and he sounds ver skeptical ablut deminic possession, saying he didn’t initially want to write the forward, that as a pshychologist he has trouble with Fr. Amorths approach.

He said that Fr. Amorth is "by no mens naive abiout the pshychological causes of aberrant behavior his own work is not a form of psychotherapy.

He writes about “those possessed by evil spirits” in quotation marks.

I googled him and it said online that his forward is “tepid” an that he has seen diabolical oppression, but never in his years as a priest has he seen diabolical possession.

If he’s skeptical, we should be, too.
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I mean, maybe we should be too.
 
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