Denial of Clemency in Death Penalty Cases

  • Thread starter Thread starter LSK
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unless I misread the article, the execution is set for Tuesday.

I also understand that Mr. Williams, himself, is not active in any ‘movement’ to halt his execution and has put himself into the hands of God.
 
Everyone, place yourselves at Tookie’s side spiritually and say the Chaplet of Divine Mercy or another prayer for him as he comes face to face with God. He sounds very ready to meet God, but it is a wonderful act of kindness to pray the Chaplet for people who are being executed.
 
Here are my thoughts from a post on another thread.
40.png
koda:
I don’t believe in the death penalty. And then there is the fact that our justice system does not offer justice to people like Tookie. He was convicted on jailhouse snitch testimony - not very reliable since the only incentive these guys have to testify is if they get something out of it. And Tookie will deny his guilt until his last breath. Considering that one of the reasons for not giving him clemency was that he hadn’t repented for his crimes (still claimed to be innocent) then I think there is a strong possiblity that he is innocent. In cases like is, the attitude is “if they didn’t do this, they did something else” and there is no real effort made to find the truth once they have a good suspect. And if all you have is a public defender and extremelyl limited funds, you’re pretty much sunk. We have two justice systems, one for the rich and one for the poor. If he were a white man from an upper middle class family, no way do I believe he would have rec’d the DP.

And then there’s the work he’s done with children and teens - telling them the truth about gang life and working for peace. He’s actually making a difference.

Personally, when I’ not so mad at the gov, I’m going to say a little prayer for him since he could have saved this man but chose not to.
Click to expand...
 
I think the idea of praying for anyone facing execution is a grand one…and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy is the perfect prayer. Mr. Williams will be facing time in purgatory for his crimes, I am sure, and I know that the decision reached by the Govenor was not an easy one. The Modesto Bee ran an article about the devastation the crimes left in the lives of the little girls of one of the men murdered during the rampage. She has not spoken to her mother for over 10 years because she had been told that the man who murdered her father was already dead. She found out differently when she was contacted by a reporter.
 
My reply on a similar topic:

Sounds like Arnold made a solid decision. There seems little doubt about the question of guilt in this case. This was a violent man who committed several horrendous crimes.

BUT the biggest argument against the death penalty is that there have been innocent folks executed for crimes that they did not commit. And once you execute someone you can NOT bring them back. That is a mistake that is impossible to correct and impossible to reconcile.

I don’t particularly find the idea of this man’s so called turnaround to become a productive member of society all that compelling as an argument against the death penalty. He was a brutal, violent SOB and was guilty of crimes warranting the DP. IF he did reform that is great and maybe he can help change someone else’s life to avoid what he did. BUT I don’t think this absolves him of his responsibility for four butal murders.

What is tragic is that his death opens the way for more executions, and somewhere along the way an innocent man may
pay the ultimate price for being misidentified or for simply being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

The biggest problem with the DP is that it can NOT be reversed. Once you execute them, you can not suddenly say “Oops sorry, we killed the wrong guy”. That just doesn’t cut it.

Mr. Williams was and very likely was to the very end a very violent man. The fact that he personally could have prevented many other murders does not speak well for him. As a co-founder of the gang, he was respected enough in the group that his word was enough to spare or condemn a rival or innocent by stander.

While this was fine IF he ordered someone, NOT to be killed…, how many times did he give the go ahead, or simply did not stop a killing. Every murder that he ordered and every murder that he did not lift a finger to stop, is also partially or directly his responsibility.

AS an example or case against the DP, Mr WIlliams is a very poor choice. A far better example would be someone who was executed for a crime they did not commit, especially if that person was otherwise a law-biding citizen…
 
I agree, and I also think that there is always problems evaluating a jailhouse conversion. I know that one of the problems with this particular person was his refusal to participate in the ‘debriefing program’ developed at Pelican Bay that would have given law enforcement officials incredible information regarding the gang he founded. Men who have participated in the program are isolated from the rest of the prison population and their families on the outside are given special protection because it is assumed that their lives are now in danger.

However, the problem remains with a DP case is that it is irreversible. There better not be any error. There better not be any problems, any slip ups, an corruption within the legal system at all.
 
Hollywood and European intellectuals would do better to run commercials to use this case as an example to stay out of gangs.

Instead, they give gangs credibility by holding up this man to be a hero.

Every day, gangs rape and murder - and who cares about these victims? Do they count for nothing? It is only important to look compassionate or to be compassionate? Is it only hard to see someone killed that we feel as we know or are the unseen murdered just bland statistics?

Bishop Sheen talked in no uncertain terms about the false compassion that existed even during his time and was growing into what exists today.

If someone has to pay the ultimate price for a crime, let’s not waste the opportunity to teach what is right and what is wrong and why. I pray for Williams’ soul and, if he indeed did convert, he will be well placed with God. But let us not forget that those murdered abruptly had very little chance of making peace with Jesus.
 
on a side note, the episiode of Life is Worth Living that was shown friday on EWTN was the one on false compassion.
 
40.png
Brain:
on a side note, the episiode of Life is Worth Living that was shown friday on EWTN was the one on false compassion.
Click to expand...
Yes! Do you have any idea how to identify that talk and/or how to order it?
 
40.png
LSK:
…Does the denial of clemency to a man who witnesses to a conversion during his time in prison seem right or wrong?
Click to expand...
whether the conversion/redemption was authentic or a contrivance is a personal matter between Williams and his Deity

the clemency question seems to fall clearly into the “give to Caesar” category

Arnie did good in a politically charged situation
 
40.png
Brad:
Every day, gangs rape and murder - and who cares about these victims? Do they count for nothing? .
Click to expand...
One problem that I have with abolishing the death penalty is what happens if a convicted killer escapes. Who or what will protect the innocent from an escaped killer? It’s nice that people are holding candles and having vigils for these criminals, but unfortunately, these candles do little to protect the innocent victims from these horrific crimes.
 
40.png
stanley123:
One problem that I have with abolishing the death penalty is what happens if a convicted killer escapes. Who or what will protect the innocent from an escaped killer? It’s nice that people are holding candles and having vigils for these criminals, but unfortunately, these candles do little to protect the innocent victims from these horrific crimes.
Click to expand...
That is a problem in the penal system as well as the case where a prisoner who may kill a prison guard or another prisoner. The DP does put a final end to their killing spree. BUT these types of problems can be solved with more secure prisons and more careful handling of inmates.

However, the problem of wrongly executing an innocent person can never be solved. No change in the system and no amount of technology and no amount of compensation can ever bring someone back after they are executed.
 
The Catholic in me is against the death penalty. The Republican in me supports it. Right now, the Catholic is winning, but I do have to say that he killed people in cold blood. He never accepted responsibility for these deaths. Did he truely repent?

I pray for his soul.
 
40.png
wcknight:
BUT these types of problems can be solved with more secure prisons and more careful handling of inmates…
Click to expand...
Perhaps in theory. But in practice, I am not convinced that they have they been solved yet. I don’t think that anyone can guarantee the life of an innocent child with a convicted killer on the loose.
 
40.png
wcknight:
That is a problem in the penal system as well as the case where a prisoner who may kill a prison guard or another prisoner. The DP does put a final end to their killing spree. BUT these types of problems can be solved with more secure prisons and more careful handling of inmates.

However, the problem of wrongly executing an innocent person can never be solved. No change in the system and no amount of technology and no amount of compensation can ever bring someone back after they are executed.
Click to expand...
The chances of an innocent person being executed in our system are practically nil (in these days that is, I’m not talking about 40 years ago). I have a good friend; a smart lawyer, former public defendent, and law school professor who is convinced that it is virtually impossible for an innocent person to be executed in our system today. He said that 99.9% of the people he has defended were guilty.
 
At first I was against him being executed. But then my father told me that one of the people he killed, he lied and said he wasn’t gonna hurt him, only to have the victim lie face down and shot him in the back and the back of the head with a shotgun. But then again, he does seem accepting of all this and putting it in God’s hands…
 
40.png
Jabronie:
The Catholic in me is against the death penalty. The Republican in me supports it. Right now, the Catholic is winning, but I do have to say that he killed people in cold blood. He never accepted responsibility for these deaths. Did he truely repent?

I pray for his soul.
Click to expand...
He never showed any remorse…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top