Denied reception on the tongue

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My choice of the word is quite deliberate – when it comes to young people serving at the altar or a lay person engaged in a ministry.

This is not religious life, priesthood, or permanent diaconate where one is examining vocation…this is fulfilling a liturgical role. For which there are more people who want to be in that role than there are available slots.

I was not interested in accepting into altar service any young person who did not want, passionately, to be there – with all that entailed in terms of how s/he would participate. I met with the boy (or girl) applying to serve to discuss what about serving Mass motivated them…why did they want to be involved in that way in the parish…and issues or concerns as well as what they hoped to learn or in what way they hoped to grow liturgically.

If I had the sense they were doing this because their parents wanted them to be there, or if they showed by their deportment that they really were not highly motivated by this liturgical ministry, I suggested deferring their participation and told the parents, “no, this was not a good fit, at least not at the present moment – and besides we’re really oversupplied presently, anyway.”

That would be just as true if someone was not happy with some aspect of serving or being reader or being an Extraordinary Minister…if they preferred, for example, to kneel for Communion or to receive only one species – instead of conforming to the ceremonial of the parish – I would encourage them to take their place with their families and do just that.

There was no place in the sanctuary or sacristy of my parish for a reluctant person…we didn’t have that many slots and we had many people who very much wanted the chance to be part of the liturgical team and were very enthusiastic for the opportunity.
Thank you for your explanation–I can understand in that context. Unfortunately in America–at least in my area–we are not blessed with too many people wishing to serve, but rather with too few. It is really quite sad. I wish we had the problem you had/have over here.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Whether or not we agree with them is beside the point. After working in parishes nearly all my life, I’ve never encountered a priest who didn’t have the final say.
On everything. .
While the priest has a great amount of latitude in the conduct of the liturgy, the priest cannot licitly disobey the valid instructions of his bishop, nor of the Church.
 
While the priest has a great amount of latitude in the conduct of the liturgy, the priest cannot licitly disobey the valid instructions of his bishop, nor of the Church.
There are certainly certain things that a pastor or a Bishop has leeway in deciding on what happen in his parish especially for things that are not mandatory or if the equivalent is just as good. The pastor can decide on that in his parish.

As for the parishioners, they should always be humble and obedient to the clergy especially on matters pertaining to the liturgy. That’s what it has always been but sometimes we want our ways and rights, more of me and less of Jesus.
 
There are certainly certain things that a pastor or a Bishop has leeway in deciding on what happen in his parish especially for things that are not mandatory or if the equivalent is just as good. The pastor can decide on that in his parish.

As for the parishioners, they should always be humble and obedient to the clergy especially on matters pertaining to the liturgy. That’s what it has always been but sometimes we want our ways and rights, more of me and less of Jesus.
Well stated.

And anyway, just try and tell a pastor that he is in error.
that never.goes.well.
Doesn’t here either, frankly. There are so many liturgy experts here on CAF that one wonders how all the parishes function in their absence. 😃

We don’t use patens either. Our parish, built in 2000, does even own any.
We have a small congregation and a roster of about 60 readers, another 50 EMHC, a small army of servers, child and adult, a crew of 40 church cleaners that come every Tuesday morning (the church still looks brand new)!We have 3 choirs.
The complaint we receive is that people only “get” to read or do anything about twice a year.
I myself read at the Easter Vigil, New Year’s Day, and on Confirmation Day, when I read in Spanish. That’s it.

At any rate, Father’s posts have been most helpful. 👍
 
And I have no objection with the wise advice you offered to her, especially since you are in a unique position to provide her with sound advice regarding this matter.

If I had any issue it was with a small part of post 36, which was not directed to the OP, where you claimed the OP said something she didn’t really say. You’ve nicely addressed above–why the OP should perhaps have phased her concern or should I say complaint differently–because of how it may be heard and for the alarm bells it may set off, but still I don’t think we should accuse her of saying something she didn’t actually say.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
Actually, Don Ruggero is correct. In the OP’s first post she said:

“What is my recourse as I’m quite livid they would EVER be denied the Holy Eucharist?”

Although the incident she described referred to the manner of reception, her question implied that this equated to a denial of Communion.
 
Actually, Don Ruggero is correct. In the OP’s first post she said:

“What is my recourse as I’m quite livid they would EVER be denied the Holy Eucharist?”

Although the incident she described referred to the manner of reception, her question implied that this equated to a denial of Communion.
I think “i don’t do that, hold out your hand or I will bless you” pretty much qualifies as denied. What if the child had stood there insisting on communion on the tongue? The EMHC would deny it to her.

And another thing, EMHC **cannot **give a blessing in the communion line! This EMHC seems very poorly trained.

This is definitely something to talk to the pastor about.

The OP may also want to instruct her child to get in the communion line with the priest in the future and/or what to do if this scenario happens again.
 
Perhaps I shouldn’t be jumping into a tread this late, but I am curious about two things:
  1. Some here have alluded to a right to receive Communion on the tongue. In what sense is this a right? Is it stated in canon law, for example?
  2. I can understand to some extent preferring to receive the Eucharist directly from the concecrated hand of the priest. However, I don’t really understand that preference when EMs are involved - at that point, a layperson has already touched the host. Why the preference to receive on the tongue in such cases?
 
Perhaps I shouldn’t be jumping into a tread this late, but I am curious about two things:
  1. Some here have alluded to a right to receive Communion on the tongue. In what sense is this a right? Is it stated in canon law, for example?
[92.] Although each of the faithful always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice, if any communicant should wish to receive the Sacrament in the hand, in areas where the Bishops’ Conference with the recognitio of the Apostolic See has given permission, the sacred host is to be administered to him or her. However, special care should be taken to ensure that the host is consumed by the communicant in the presence of the minister, so that no one goes away carrying the Eucharistic species in his hand. If there is a risk of profanation, then Holy Communion should not be given in the hand to the faithful.
Redemptionis Sacramentum #92
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html
  1. I can understand to some extent preferring to receive the Eucharist directly from the concecrated hand of the priest. However, I don’t really understand that preference when EMs are involved - at that point, a layperson has already touched the host. Why the preference to receive on the tongue in such cases?
Simply because that is their preference. A priest might prefer Eucharistic Prayer #1, or using Penitential Rite Form A. They may use that as they see fit. The Church has given the priest that right, and a layperson cannot refuse that right. And it is a legitimate right of the priest.

Likewise, the Church has given each person the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue or kneeling., or where permitted, standing or in the hand. It is no less of a right than what the Church gave to the priest to choose which EP they use, or which form of the Penitential Rite., and neither the priest nor another layperson can
refuse them either.

To show the extent of how seriously the Vatican takes this, several bishops attempted to restrict the reception of Communion on the tongue during the Swine Flu outbreaks. They were overruled by the Vatican.

4.bp.blogspot.com/_kweFJm8yGGQ/Sw60x4VU22I/AAAAAAAADCM/1VgEgwyGiek/s1600/CommLetter7-24-09.jpg
 
Perhaps I shouldn’t be jumping into a tread this late, but I am curious about two things:
  1. Some here have alluded to a right to receive Communion on the tongue. In what sense is this a right? Is it stated in canon law, for example?
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

From above link, paragraph 92:
Although each of the faithful always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice, if any communicant should wish to receive the Sacrament in the hand, in areas where the Bishops’ Conference with the recognitio of the Apostolic See has given permission, the sacred host is to be administered to him or her. However, special care should be taken to ensure that the host is consumed by the communicant in the presence of the minister, so that no one goes away carrying the Eucharistic species in his hand. If there is a risk of profanation, then Holy Communion should not be given in the hand to the faithful.

And GIRM:
  1. If Communion is given only under the species of bread, the priest raises the host slightly and shows it to each, saying, Corpus Christi (The Body of Christ). The communicant replies, Amen, and receives the Sacrament either on the tongue or, where this is allowed and if the communicant so chooses, in the hand. As soon as the communicant receives the host, he or she consumes it entirely.
  1. I can understand to some extent preferring to receive the Eucharist directly from the concecrated hand of the priest. However, I don’t really understand that preference when EMs are involved - at that point, a layperson has already touched the host. Why the preference to receive on the tongue in such cases?
I can’t answer that for you. I receive in the hand.
 
I think “i don’t do that, hold out your hand or I will bless you” pretty much qualifies as denied. What if the child had stood there insisting on communion on the tongue? The EMHC would deny it to her.
“Denial of the Eucharist” means that a person approached the minister and the minister refused absolutely to minister the sacrament to them. Denial of the Eucharist is a very specific canonical phrase. It does not mean – and should not be used to convey – that the minister did not give the sacrament to them in the manner that they wished to receive It. The phrase means were denied access to the sacrament at all. THAT is what denial of the Eucharist means.

Now, having said that…as a retired chancery official, if someone had done that to me with regard to a priest of the diocese, and I found out they were making a misleading allegation, that would instantly close the case. The person would have prejudiced their own case by how they formulated what they said.

It is nothing short of absurd to speak of “denial of the Eucharist” when the original poster clearly writes: “He even went so far as to separate her “praying hands” in order to put the Host into her hands; even though her mouth was open the whole time to receive on the tongue.” The child was not being denied the Eucharist; she was not given the opportunity to receive on the tongue. These are two very distinct realities.
And another thing, EMHC **cannot **give a blessing in the communion line! This EMHC seems very poorly trained.
You are making a judgment having heard only the “livid” person who lost “composure” and without even knowing the ecclesiastical jurisdiction.

In fact, the minister COULD give a blessing to a non-communicant, depending upon the disposition of the bishop of the diocese. In my diocese, they certainly could. The bishops of the United States have not made a cohesive determination, thus in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, no one should bless a non-communicant. In the Archdiocese of New York, only those ordained are to give such a blessing. In the Diocese of Saint Petersburg, the Extraordinary Minister herself blesses…as but three examples out of more than 170.

dosp.org/worship/wp-content/uploads/sites/28/Can-an-Extraordinary-Minister-of-Communion-give-a-blessing.pdf

As a priest, I would advise that anyone who became livid and lost composure in this circumstance, would indeed benefit from seeking help from a priest…beyond resolving the issue of the sacrament’s mode of reception.
 
A priest might prefer Eucharistic Prayer #1, or using Penitential Rite Form A. They may use that as they see fit. The Church has given the priest that right, and a layperson cannot refuse that right. And it is a legitimate right of the priest.

Likewise, the Church has given each person the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue or kneeling., or where permitted, standing or in the hand. It is no less of a right than what the Church gave to the priest to choose which EP they use, or which form of the Penitential Rite., and neither the priest nor another layperson can
refuse them either.
And indeed this is a very welcomed contrast.

As you write, the Presider ultimately is the one to make discretionary decisions such as you list – and many more besides.

He is, however, repeatedly admonished throughout to balance this right, that is properly his, against the needs of the people who are participating in the Mass…and that is the point that precisely needs to be made clear here, when the language employed is much too absolute.

While the decisions are his, he is always to take into account many other factors and even is directed to place those factors ahead of his own preference in his decision-making.

A fundamental principle of pastoral theology concerns the weighing of various goods in order to arrive at a determination that is the best outcome in circumstance available, which was always given the emphasis in my lectures to provide needed balance.

You, as Presider, will have the right to decide X – but is X really the best decision for the people to whom you are ministering? Or, in fact, should you actually choose to do C, at the other end of the scale?

You are correct to cite the admonition of the Holy See concerning a sweeping decision certain bishops made for an entire geographic region at the time of the Swine Flu, rather than acting on a case by case basis.

Of course, in balance to that, there was also the unfortunate case involving the United States when they sought to impose, by draconian effort, a rubric on the posture after Communion. The Holy See had to intervene to say that the rubric was being over-applied…as it was stating a preference for the posture in that moment, all else being equal…not a command to be enforced under threat of punishment.

There are times when I have had to overrule an individual communicant in hospital…either because they wanted to receive in the hand when they could only receive a tiny fragment that I had to place in the mouth because to act otherwise was to risk the particle being lost or a patient who wanted to receive on the tongue but the infection control procedure obviated it.

Again, speaking as a parish priest now retired, if someone came to me making a statement “My children have always and everywhere received on the tongue. What is my recourse as I’m quite livid they would EVER be denied the Holy Eucharist?”"

My very first question would be: “Why do you formulate what you said in the way you did? Do you think receiving in the hand is in any way not perfectly acceptable and completely virtuous?”

As I said, over the years, I have seen very sad situations in which a person ends up having a hostile relationship with their parish priest, their chancery officials and the bishop himself over how the person chose to react to situations and how the person chose to engage the officials. When one moves from a situation of dialogue to one of livid confrontations…well, one ought not be surprised when one finds one is then only having confrontations with doors that have been closed, locked, and barred.
 
I can’t think of a time when I’ve been denied the option of receiving Communion on the tongue. We are sometimes denied the cup if there’s sickness going around, which is perfectly fine with me. I prefer to receive on the tongue but have no problem receiving in the hand if the priest or EMHC is shorter than I.

OP, I hope you’re able to get everything resolved with the pastor.

God bless you.
 
Actually, Don Ruggero is correct. In the OP’s first post she said:

“What is my recourse as I’m quite livid they would EVER be denied the Holy Eucharist?”

Although the incident she described referred to the manner of reception, her question implied that this equated to a denial of Communion.
That is not the sentence Don Ruggero quoted and was addressing in his response. The sentence Don Ruggero quoted was clear that they were denied reception on the tongue. Also the title of the thread clearly puts us on notice regarding what we are discussing.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
That is not the sentence Don Ruggero quoted and was addressing in his response. The sentence Don Ruggero quoted was clear that they were denied reception on the tongue. Also the title of the thread clearly puts us on notice regarding what we are discussing.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
Yes and I specifically chose to focus on the sentence I did because I wanted to underscore the absolute folly of using the very specific phrase, with its specific meaning, “denial of the Eucharist” – even with some attempt to qualify it – in this particular instance.

AnnArbor is indeed correct to point out what s/he does.

Since, however, the original poster said that s/he was livid and since s/he went on to say that it had been necessary for her to regain the composure s/he had lost, I preferred to focus on the other formulation because frankly the qualification not only does not help…it actually does further harm. And that was the point I most wanted to underline. As AnnArbor correctly points out, the words in the first post actually were:

What is my recourse as I’m quite livid they would EVER be denied the Holy Eucharist?

It is precisely that sort of language, formulated as it is, that would do the original poster the gravest damage in a discussion with the parish priest or a chancery official…it completely destroys credibility. But again, that will be his or her choice that s/he will then have to live with.
 
You guys are getting caught way up in the weeds on this denied not denied…The child was forced to receive in a way contary to the parents teaching. Of coarse the child was denied. It is the parents responsibility to form and educate their children not some lay person.

The preferred and traditional way of receiving is on the tongue. The exception is in the hand. Permission had to be given for that to happen. At least three prominent Cardinals agree (easy to find for anyone wanting to look) that anyone who says you cannot receive on the tongue is wrong. I posted a video of Cardinal Arinze stating as much.
 
Children should be taught that receiving both ways is acceptable.

Would parents be just as guilty as the EMHC if ( if there is no valid excuse) when the parents insist a child receive only one way?

I ask because I know some parents that insist thier children only recieve one way,( without any extenuating circumstances to warrant this…).Or do parents have authority over church teaching about this?
 
You guys are getting caught way up in the weeds on this denied not denied…The child was forced to receive in a way contary to the parents teaching. Of coarse the child was denied. It is the parents responsibility to form and educate their children not some lay person.

The preferred and traditional way of receiving is on the tongue. The exception is in the hand. Permission had to be given for that to happen. At least three prominent Cardinals agree (easy to find for anyone wanting to look) that anyone who says you cannot receive on the tongue is wrong. I posted a video of Cardinal Arinze stating as much.
I note the confidence in your statement. I agree with you generally in your context but disagree slightly on points.

Parents has responsibility too to teach correct message. Why? So that the child will not unnecessarily encounter rejection of what was being taught to him by others in later life.

The receiving of whether on the tongue or hand is just a preference, and either one is acceptable. Parents should tell a child that, not so much about having to fight it out if the priest does not accede to his/her preference. That, though right, could only lead to confrontation and belligerency, which if being put into the mind of the child. I don’t think parents should put that so early in a child’s head. He/she should be given the space to make the decision especially with something such as preferences.

If anything, the child should be taught first of all, that the Church is the administer of the Sacraments. This administering is given to the clergy, which in some cases they can decide the practices in their parishes.

In the US, the instruction is to be given on the hand, it is not the exception. On the tongue is more of the exception, because if the communicant wants to, then it will be given on the tongue.

The child should be taught that he/she should be submissive to the Church and in practice, to the priest of the parish, especially in the area of Sacraments and liturgy. This is the general principle of thing.

The child should be taught that whether it is on the hand or tongue, it makes no difference to the efficacy of the Sacrament received. Once the child understood this, less hurt and disappointment would be experienced, should he/she come to a parish where the priest decided that receiving is only on the hand.
 
In the US, the instruction is to be given on the hand, it is not the exception. On the tongue is more of the exception, because if the communicant wants to, then it will be given on the tongue.
This is not at all true.

The norm, everywhere, is on the tongue. The U.S. has an indult that allows reception in the hand. The exception is for the hand, not the tongue.

There is no instruction that communion is to be given in the hand in the U.S.
 
I note the confidence in your statement. I agree with you generally in your context but disagree slightly on points.

Parents has responsibility too to teach correct message. Why? So that the child will not unnecessarily encounter rejection of what was being taught to him by others in later life.

The receiving of whether on the tongue or hand is just a preference, and either one is acceptable. Parents should tell a child that, not so much about having to fight it out if the priest does not accede to his/her preference. That, though right, could only lead to confrontation and belligerency, which if being put into the mind of the child. I don’t think parents should put that so early in a child’s head. He/she should be given the space to make the decision especially with something such as preferences.

If anything, the child should be taught first of all, that the Church is the administer of the Sacraments. This administering is given to the clergy, which in some cases they can decide the practices in their parishes.

In the US, the instruction is to be given on the hand, it is not the exception. On the tongue is more of the exception, because if the communicant wants to, then it will be given on the tongue.

The child should be taught that he/she should be submissive to the Church and in practice, to the priest of the parish, especially in the area of Sacraments and liturgy. This is the general principle of thing.

The child should be taught that whether it is on the hand or tongue, it makes no difference to the efficacy of the Sacrament received. Once the child understood this, less hurt and disappointment would be experienced, should he/she come to a parish where the priest decided that receiving is only on the hand.
You are quite correct.
As the person in charge of education and the educators that prepare the children for First Holy Communion, we tell parents the children have the option of either way. Most English speakers choose hand, most Spanish speakers choose tongue in our area.
For the most part, I would say in our area, 80% of the people choose hand over tongue.
But the main point is, no one EVER ever makes a scene and no one condemns either practice. That’s the issue here. When people believe, and tell their children that others are doing it wrong…either way. The anger that results and the confusion to the kids is unfortunate in this regard.

That is the point of this whole thing.
The incorrect belief that one way is somehow “better” when Christ is truly present no matter which way we receive Him.
I wasn’t there, but whomever is to blame, there should never be a scene in the Communion line.
 
If anything, the child should be taught first of all, that the Church is the administer of the Sacraments. This administering is given to the clergy, which in some cases they can decide the practices in their parishes…
The clergy may certainly decide the vast majority of practices for the parish, but this choice is not among those.
[92.] Although each of the faithful always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice, if any communicant should wish to receive the Sacrament in the hand, in areas where the Bishops’ Conference with the recognitio of the Apostolic See has given permission, the sacred host is to be administered to him or her. However, special care should be taken to ensure that the host is consumed by the communicant in the presence of the minister, so that no one goes away carrying the Eucharistic species in his hand. If there is a risk of profanation, then Holy Communion should not be given in the hand to the faithful.
As you noted, the Church is the administrator of the Sacraments; as such, the Church has determined that the right to choose is to be given to the individual Communicant.
 
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