Denominations in Catholicism

[Eruvande]

Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?

 

[LilyM]

Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?

The factions within Protestantism disagree about such fundamental things as infant baptism, whether the Eucharist is real, symbolic or just not required at all, OSAS or not, sola scriptura or not, even whether Christ really existed, was really crucified or whether these things are only allegories or parables. Little differences like that.

There is not nearly the disagreement among those churches that are in communion with Rome.

 

[JugglingReferee]

Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?

Here are all the denominations within Catholicism:

 

[JustaServant]

Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?

Identify them.

 

[Eruvande]

Well, the first that spring to mind are sedevacantists, traditionalists, SSPX (I think I’ve spelled that right) liberalists. That’ll do for starters. It seems that everytime I start to progress a little towards the church, someone from one of these factions will crop up and I feel blindsided again. There’s lots of stuff I love about the church, but of the few things that keep me away, this is one.

 

[JustaServant]

Well, the first that spring to mind are sedevacantists, traditionalists, SSPX (I think I’ve spelled that right) liberalists. That’ll do for starters. It seems that everytime I start to progress a little towards the church, someone from one of these factions will crop up and I feel blindsided again. There’s lots of stuff I love about the church, but of the few things that keep me away, this is one.

Sedevacantists are not part of the Catholic Church. They are a heretical breakoff.
The SSPX is an order of priests, not a denomination. They are in irregular union with the Church, but are still considered Catholic.
Two down…
That the best you can come up with?

 

[Eruvande]

Actually, I’d rather not if you’re going to be rude. I’m not trying to win an argument, I’m trying to work something out for my own faith journey.

All I’m saying is there isn’t quite the unity I’m sold from certain apologists. That gives me pause.

 

[Spencerian]

Well, the first that spring to mind are sedevacantists, traditionalists, SSPX (I think I’ve spelled that right) liberalists. That’ll do for starters. It seems that everytime I start to progress a little towards the church, someone from one of these factions will crop up and I feel blindsided again. There’s lots of stuff I love about the church, but of the few things that keep me away, this is one.

Hi!

The word “denomination” means that a portion has split off from a whole. That’s where we Catholics see our Protestant brethren. That said, denomination also implies that one ecclesiastical community has substantial differences in the practices of doctrine as compared to another.

The great thing about being Catholic is, despite the rites (or ecclesiastical communities with local customs in the celebration of our Lord, such as Byzantine Catholics), every Catholic accepts the core doctrines and dogmas of the Magisterium, the teaching body of the Church. No other Christian faith tradition, I think, is as consistent in the fullness of its teaching throughout its entire laity.

That said, yes, you have schismatic groups. These are few and far between, fortunately. You mentioned the most common. They believe that the Church’s teachings are “too modern,” or “not keeping in step with the times,” or some other thing.

Don’t let your interest in Catholic teaching sway you here. These schematic groups are often the result of individualistic goals (failure to accept this teaching or that because it interrupts that person’s status quo, often enough). There are over 1 billion Catholics in the world–and the scant number of them with clear goals to turn the Church against itself or the unchanging teachings of the Lord are very few.

Remember that Christ selected twelve men to be his central followers and bishops-to-be. One of them rebelled–nastily. The Eleven picked up their pieces, filled the office of the offender when he died and continued on. The Catholic Church’s apostolic authority ensures a unity that no other faith (Christian or otherwise) seems to hold. It’s why Christ created it.

In short, don’t throw the billions of Catholic babies in communion with Rome out with the dirty bathwater of the small schematics. We pray that they soon understand that the laity does not guide the Church–nor does the clergy. *God *does–starting with the clergy and then through the laity.

In non-Catholic circles, schismatic is often synonymous with “yet another Christian church”. That’s been done, statistically, as much as 30,000 times. They can’t all be right, nor have they the fullness of truth. But their teachings have a source, and that’s commonly a group of books codified by the Catholic Church over 1600 years ago.

If you have other groups you care to know about, just ask. We’re glad you’re searching for the fullness of your faith. God pray that you find it, as we have, in the Catholic Church.

 

[schaick]

Actually, I’d rather not if you’re going to be rude. I’m not trying to win an argument, I’m trying to work something out for my own faith journey.

All I’m saying is there isn’t quite the unity I’m sold from certain apologists. That gives me pause.

Catholics always say protestant and include non-trinitarians in the mix "even whether Christ really existed, was really crucified ". Ridiculous.

One nice thing about non-catholic churches- majority of people worshipping with you are like minded. If they **can’t believe **something for some reason they are free to move to a congregation that they are comfortable in. They are still considered Christian and part of the Church Jesus built.

You can’t force faith- you either believe or you don’t.

Of course there are factions in Catholism. In any given Catholic parish there are those people that don’t believe in the transformation, purgatory, pope infallibility, etc. There are those that want to follow Vatican II, or Vatican I. There is another denomination - the Old Catholic Church that doesn’t believe in pope infallibilty.

It appears to me that Catholics for some reason need to hold on to the thought that Catholics need to possess the right to exclude people from the “catholic” = universal church that Jesus built.

The main thing that keeps me from being Catholic is their belief that the wafer is transformed and the worshipping of it. I believe in the Real Presence in under and with and that we are to consume it- not worship it. It may sound like a pretty fine line but I believe transformation and worship of the wafer is idol worship.

 

[Scoobyshme]

Catholics always say protestant and include non-trinitarians in the mix "even whether Christ really existed, was really crucified ". Ridiculous.

One nice thing about non-catholic churches- majority of people worshipping with you are like minded. If they **can’t believe **something for some reason they are free to move to a congregation that they are comfortable in. They are still considered Christian and part of the Church Jesus built.

You can’t force faith- you either believe or you don’t.

Of course there are factions in Catholism. In any given Catholic parish there are those people that don’t believe in the transformation, purgatory, pope infallibility, etc. There are those that want to follow Vatican II, or Vatican I. There is another denomination - the Old Catholic Church that doesn’t believe in pope infallibilty.

It appears to me that Catholics for some reason need to hold on to the thought that Catholics need to possess the right to exclude people from the “catholic” = universal church that Jesus built.

The main thing that keeps me from being Catholic is their belief that the wafer is transformed and the worshipping of it. I believe in the Real Presence in under and with and that we are to consume it- not worship it. It may sound like a pretty fine line but I believe transformation and worship of the wafer is idol worship.

Actually, there is but one Church, which is the Body of Christ. And one is either a member of that Church or one isn’t. When we are baptized, we become members of that Church, the Catholic Church. However, some members are separated from the Body of Christ, i.e., they are out of communion with the Body of Christ, and, therefore, with Christ, Himself. Some by choice, some by invincible ignorance, some by culpable ignorance. God will judge each soul according to its culpability.

But to try to separate Christ from His Church is error. Christ and His Church are inseparably one. He founded His Church. Not Martin Luther. Not Zwingli or Calvin. Nor any of the other thousands of mere men who founded any of the thousands of Protestant denominations.

Historically, there was but one Christian Church for the first 1000 years of Christianity, the Catholic Church. Then, in 1054, the Orthodox split off. Only in 1517 did Protestantism begin, and it has been constantly splintering ever since, into more and more denominations, all based on some mere human’s personal interpretation of the Bible. That method is clearly the wrong approach.

 

[Theophorus]

Catholics always say protestant and include non-trinitarians in the mix "even whether Christ really existed, was really crucified ". Ridiculous.

One nice thing about non-catholic churches- majority of people worshipping with you are like minded. If they **can’t believe **something for some reason they are free to move to a congregation that they are comfortable in. They are still considered Christian and part of the Church Jesus built.

You can’t force faith- you either believe or you don’t.

Of course there are factions in Catholism. In any given Catholic parish there are those people that don’t believe in the transformation, purgatory, pope infallibility, etc. There are those that want to follow Vatican II, or Vatican I. There is another denomination - the Old Catholic Church that doesn’t believe in pope infallibilty.

It appears to me that Catholics for some reason need to hold on to the thought that Catholics need to possess the right to exclude people from the “catholic” = universal church that Jesus built.

The main thing that keeps me from being Catholic is their belief that the wafer is transformed and the worshipping of it. I believe in the Real Presence in under and with and that we are to consume it- not worship it. It may sound like a pretty fine line but I believe transformation and worship of the wafer is idol worship.

Quite a few misconceptions here Schaick I’ll stick to just two so as not to take this thread too far off topic:

There is a big difference between protestants(separated Christian brethren) and the ‘non-trinitarians’ as you call them. Since modern non-trinitarians generally deny the divinity of Christ or deny His humanity I don’t think it is fair to them (or fair to protestants) to call such groups protestant.

If you believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist(‘The Wafer’) as you seem to suggest then in what way do you deny the ‘transformation’ of bread into the body and blood into Christ? And if it is truly Christ why not worship Him?

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Well, the first that spring to mind are sedevacantists, traditionalists, SSPX (I think I’ve spelled that right) liberalists. That’ll do for starters. It seems that everytime I start to progress a little towards the church, someone from one of these factions will crop up and I feel blindsided again. There’s lots of stuff I love about the church, but of the few things that keep me away, this is one.

Hi,

First, there are factions in the Church. We are human, so tend to disagree. But I don’t think they could be called denominations in the same sense that we mean to use the word when we talk about, say, Baptists and Episcopalians.

Some of the factions you listed are simply wrong - for example, Pope Benedict is a legitimate pope, so the sedavacantists are wrong, and the SSPX really shouldn’t be ordaining Bishops without papal approval, and some of those who go with that crowd may reject some doctrinal stuff. My recommendation: Just avoid these groups. A good rule of thumb is that if a group distances itself from the Pope, it’s probably wrong.

Some other factions are more or less within the scope of orthodox Catholicism. Those who call themselves “Traditional Catholics” in my experience tend to prefer the Extraordinary Form of the Mass and are more likely to hold stricter (but usually permitted) interpretations of some doctrines, while the more “liberal” Catholics like to sing “Go Make a Difference” at mass for some reason and tend to hold softer (but usually still within the bounds of orthodox) interpretations.

There are exceptions of course: some people who call themselves traditional Catholics believe that every single person who is not a formal member of the Catholic Church must necessarily go to Hell for that reason alone, and this is wrong; whereas some self identified liberal Catholics who believe that Hell doesn’t really exist or that it is impossible for people to go there (as distinct from hoping that no one will, which is permitted), or disagree with the Church on moral issues such as abortion and the like.

And then there’s the rest of us, who just call ourselves Catholic, accept that the Church is correct in its teachings, and do our best to follow them without identifying with any particular faction. It’s really not necessary to join a faction or determine where you stand on the scale of permissible beliefs in any area - some things we must just accept in a vary specific and firm way (Real Presence), some things we are free to wonder about and probably won’t know the answer to until we die (the method - though not the fact of - creation, how many people end up in Hell).

In short, I wouldn’t worry about the factions at all. Start with the Catechism and official teaching, and if you later find yourself drawn towards a specific subgroup of Catholics that has certain beliefs and preferences within those which are acceptable - that’s fine. And if not, don’t worry about it. Most Catholics don’t, so far as I am aware.

 

[Theophorus]

Well, the first that spring to mind are sedevacantists, traditionalists, SSPX (I think I’ve spelled that right) liberalists. That’ll do for starters. It seems that everytime I start to progress a little towards the church, someone from one of these factions will crop up and I feel blindsided again. There’s lots of stuff I love about the church, but of the few things that keep me away, this is one.

The Most Basic requirements for being a Catholic is to Follow Christ, and also be in communion with the successor of Peter as a member of the Church He founded. In this Church Christ has Revealed many things to us which likewise must be held to call oneself Catholic.

The Various Groups that you mentioned lack certain aspects of this relation to His Church and/or to His teachings and so cannot all rightly be called Catholic denominations and in the Case of the SSPX, they never were nor are they now considered a denomination but a Group that is not currently in full communion with the Church.

I can see how these would be stumbling blocks to recognising the Catholic Church as one, but then squabbles and factions have always existed in the Church. Just look at the Apostles, in communion with Peter, but often arguing about how things should get done!

God Bless you on your journey of discernment, May you find the Way, and the Truth, and the Life Christ wishes you to lead.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?

LilyM is right: denominations are separate ecclesiastical organizations that often disagree on fundamental matters, such as whether baptism is necessary for salvation, how and in what way the Real Presence in the Eucharist is true, etc.

All Catholics are united in believing the teachings of Catholic Christianity. Any “factions” that deny these are going against Catholic Christianity; they are not “denominations” within Catholicism.

Well, the first that spring to mind are sedevacantists, traditionalists, SSPX (I think I’ve spelled that right) liberalists. That’ll do for starters. It seems that everytime I start to progress a little towards the church, someone from one of these factions will crop up and I feel blindsided again. There’s lots of stuff I love about the church, but of the few things that keep me away, this is one.

I don’t think those “factions” are comparable, for the following reasons:

Sedevacantists are extremely reactionary schismatics. Denying that we have a valid Holy Father is quite enough to put one well outside the Catholic Church.

Traditionalists and liberals/progressives are just umbrella terms for like-minded groups of people who have different ideas about implementing and practicing the Catholic faith. They are still part of the same church, and their ideas can coexist in unity. Unity is not uniformity.

For instance, a “traditionalist” Catholic may be wary about that Assisi III interreligious gathering. A so-called “liberal” Catholic might support it without the sort of reservations that the traditionalist has. A “traditionalist” might prefer the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, whereas a “liberal” would not.

These are valid disagreements, matters where diversity is possible and the practicing of the faith in real life inherently offers several options.

Protestant denominations, however, are organizationally separate. I think that’s the difference. You can become a member at a “Methodist” church, or a “Presbyterian” church, or a so-called “non-denominational” church.

But there’s no such thing in the Catholic world as a “traditionalist” church, a “liberal” church, etc. While a given parish may fit into some of these categories, their classification remains simply Catholic, and all Catholics know that can attend Holy Mass there and receive the Eucharist.

I think the SSPX is your best example, but even in that case, that society’s canonically irregular status (its bishops, priests, and religious are suspended) belies the very legitimacy of its separateness.

 

[Joe_5859]

All I’m saying is there isn’t quite the unity I’m sold from certain apologists. That gives me pause.

Perhaps it would help you to look in the section of the Catechism that talks about what it means that the Church is “One”. It can be found in CCC 813-822.

Unity doesn’t mean that every single Catholic needs to be of the same opinion on every single issue. There is room for legitimate differences of opinion.

Nonetheless, there are also genuine wounds to unity, as you have observed. We cannot ignore that fact. All we can do is acknowledge it and work towards greater unity. When you get a billion people together – each with their own ideas, egos, faults and failings – conflict is inevitable. That the Church is still standing is a testament to Her divine origin.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Off topic posts split into SPLIT: Martin Luther returned the Church to the original.

 

[rinnie]

Actually, I’d rather not if you’re going to be rude. I’m not trying to win an argument, I’m trying to work something out for my own faith journey.

All I’m saying is there isn’t quite the unity I’m sold from certain apologists. That gives me pause.

We are all united to Christ through his Church. What would probally help you the most is read up and find out what Church was established by Christ and has all of the acquirements.

Look for all of the 7 Sacraments. Don’t go by certain apologists. And don’t judge God by his people. We are not perfect like Christ, we are humans and we are sinners.

Very few of us are Saints!! We pray, we try to live the commandments and to become a SAINT is our goal! But is is so hard.

The unity in the Catholic Church you will find is the truth of GOD. We all agree on his word and his truth.

Don’t let personal opinons get in the way of the truth the Church teaches.

Example Billy is Catholic, but he feels abortions is okay. Well guess what? Billy can be a very good person, he can attend church everyday, BUT he is not a true Cathoic, and he does not obey GODS word. So POINT!! Lets listen to GOD through the CHURCH and not Billys opinion.

Even our own Pope can give his own personal opinion, BUT its the Opinions given to him BY GOD that we must obey and agree with. The Pope is human like us all, and he has human opinions like us, he can be wrong. But when he speaks in Gods voice, Thats what we must listen and obey.

What I am trying to say is don’t let gifted people who do know alot of the word, confuse you when they express THEIR opinion, not Gods word, I think thats where you are getting confused.

 

[rinnie]

Actually, I’d rather not if you’re going to be rude. I’m not trying to win an argument, I’m trying to work something out for my own faith journey.

All I’m saying is there isn’t quite the unity I’m sold from certain apologists. That gives me pause.

Here is something else. Christ tells us to listen to the CHURCH, the CHURCH is the pilar of all truth. Not certain apologists. Don’t get confused!!

My Priest and I can disagree on many things, its our person opinions. But the big difference in the Protestant and Catholic Church is this, Authority!!

Its not my Priests personal opinion or mine that has the final say, Its the True word of God defined by the Church that has the last say!! Thats why there is UNITY!! Because when it is defined by GOD and is true teachings of the Church it CAN"T be wrong. Every Catholic Church obeys the true word of God.

In a Protestant Church I can go to 50 different Church’s and get 50 different truths. But God said there is only ONE CHURCH and ONE TRUTH.

Pray for Gods grace to lead you, and you will land on your knees in prayer and then you will be home!! Good luck, You are in my prayers.

 

[JustaServant]

Actually, I’d rather not if you’re going to be rude. I’m not trying to win an argument, I’m trying to work something out for my own faith journey.

All I’m saying is there isn’t quite the unity I’m sold from certain apologists. That gives me pause.

Not trying to be rude my friend. Some of us are just a little hyper-vigilant when someone asks this kind of question. It usually comes from people trying to prove an point.

The Catholic Church has a Billion people world wide, so you are not going to have a billion people agree on everything. But that is no the definition of a denomination. I think perhaps you are looking for a different word.

 

[Eruvande]

Not trying to be rude my friend. Some of us are just a little hyper-vigilant when someone asks this kind of question. It usually comes from people trying to prove an point.

The Catholic Church has a Billion people world wide, so you are not going to have a billion people agree on everything. But that is no the definition of a denomination. I think perhaps you are looking for a different word.

No doubt - factions is probably the better term. Apologies, I’m floundering about trying to make sense of something I’ve only known through the lens of protestant apologists, so I’m aware that my perspective is coloured by that.

Thank you all for your replies. I suppose the sedevacantists are actually just another form of protestant. And yes, it does make sense that there would be differences of opinion among brethren. I shall have to get a copy of the catechism.