Denominations similar to Catholocism?

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LP4H said:
BTW, I’ve been wondering lately, the Church of Christ claims to follow the format of the early Christians, correct? How close are they to Catholocism? Are they anti-Catholic?
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They are not close at all. In fact, they tend to be rather anti-Catholic in their outlook. About the only thing they have in common with Catholic teaching is their belief in the necessity of baptism for salvation (however they don’t really seem to have a sacramental outlook like Catholic theology does) and they have communion every week, but they believe it is only symbolic. They also believe it’s possible to lose one’s salvation but they don’t believe in original sin.
 
GKC said:
Ah, but I’m not a part of the Worldwide Anglican Communion. Lots of us are not.

Ah, but I’m not Protestant. Any more than the Orthodox are.

I congratulate you on your escape. Would that more follow you.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
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Nicely said.
 
jmcrae said:
Like that the Gnostics or the Arians or the Nestorians, etc., were “proto-Protestants.” :rolleyes:
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Okay, thanks, I thought you were denying that there was an Augustinian heritage common to both Catholics and Protestants.

(Please note, as others evidently have failed to do, that I am NOT saying that Augustine was a Protestant though I AM saying that Protestantism is, at least originally, Augustinian).
 
Steadfast said:
Do you really want to start with me?
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No.
Steadfast said:
You will hamfistedly propose cartoons of history
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  1. I am not hamfisted–whatever that may be (I am guessing it is a veiled insult). 😦
  2. I don’t propose “cartoons” of history–whatever that may be(I am guessing it is a veiled insult).
Steadfast said:
which I will then use nuance and a broader view to punch holes in, creating a more variegated picture and one considerably less congenial to the Catholic Fundamentalist.
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I shall try to translate this: You will twist the Church Fathers out of context in an attempt to create an illusion that is more congenial to the protestant fundamentalist. 😃
Steadfast said:
But it won’t make any difference because to a certain mindset it is better not to allow oneself to be confused by facts.
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Facts can be confusing–Truth is not.
 
I think the base of the OP’s question is about manner of worship rather than what they believe. Assuming this is the question, the list of Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist is probably correct. But the question belies a big question and issue. What is more important- manner of worship or what we believe?

Then it becomes more complex because issues of the efficacy of sacraments, concept of sin/salvation/redemption, and right relationship between the created and creator come into play.
 
Steadfast said:
Okay, thanks, I thought you were denying that there was an Augustinian heritage common to both Catholics and Protestants.

(Please note, as others evidently have failed to do, that I am NOT saying that Augustine was a Protestant though I AM saying that Protestantism is, at least originally, Augustinian).
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St. Augustine was the Bishop of Hippo - I’m not sure how much more Catholic one could get, without actually becoming Pope.

He had spent some portion of his young adulthood as a member and teacher of a heretical sect called the “Manicheans,” but he renounced this heresy and was baptized by St. Ambrose before studying for Holy Orders in the Catholic Church.

I am also under the impression that he was one of the more influential Bishops who helped to give us the canon of the New Testament during the period between 385 and 405 AD.
 
jmcrae said:
St. Augustine was the Bishop of Hippo - I’m not sure how much more Catholic one could get, without actually becoming Pope.

He had spent some portion of his young adulthood as a member and teacher of a heretical sect called the “Manicheans,” but he renounced this heresy and was baptized by St. Ambrose before studying for Holy Orders in the Catholic Church.

I am also under the impression that he was one of the more influential Bishops who helped to give us the canon of the New Testament during the period between 385 and 405 AD.
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It hurts my feelings when I write things and people don’t read them but go ahead and respond anyway.
 
Steadfast said:
It hurts my feelings when I write things and people don’t read them but go ahead and respond anyway.
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I was agreeing with you that he wasn’t proto-Protestant.

Then I added some biographical information about him, because I thought it would be interesting.

Yes, they often quoted from Augustine’s works to support various theological ideas.

There were four distinctly different forms of Protestantism, to begin with (Lutheran, Mennonite, Calvinist, and Anglican), and they each understood things quite differently from each other, but their biggest differences from each other, and (at that time) from the Catholic Church were political and organizational; not theological. The theological differences came later.
 
Orionthehunter said:
I think the base of the OP’s question is about manner of worship rather than what they believe. Assuming this is the question, the list of Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist is probably correct. But the question belies a big question and issue. What is more important- manner of worship or what we believe?
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That’s pretty much what I was thinking when I posted, similar in structure. Are those four the only ones similar to us?
 
LP4H said:
That’s pretty much what I was thinking when I posted, similar in structure. Are those four the only ones similar to us?
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Similar is a relative term. I think what is more objective is to say that the Anglicans, Lutherans and Methodists have worship that devives some of its order, prayers, and rhythm from the Liturgy of the Catholic Mass and that the Orthodox Mass is essentially the Byzantine Rite used by the Byzantine Catholics.

Personally, I’m not familiar enough with other non-Catholic Christian services to provide light on the degree that their service is derived from one of the Catholic Rites (Antioch, Alexandria, Byzantine, Roman, Gallican).
 
LP4H said:
That’s pretty much what I was thinking when I posted, similar in structure. Are those four the only ones similar to us?
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Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox all have liturgical services that, in some ways, are similar to the Catholic service. Personally, I wouldn’t include Methodists in this list. Their worship tends to be more what you would expect from a Protestant service as opposed to being liturgical.
 
Charismatic Episcoapl Church (no relation to the Anglican Communion in any form) is almost identical.
 
rr1213 said:
Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox all have liturgical services that, in some ways, are similar to the Catholic service. Personally, I wouldn’t include Methodists in this list. Their worship tends to be more what you would expect from a Protestant service as opposed to being liturgical.
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Liturgy, gk leitorgia, literally means “the work of the people.” All worship is the work of the people, and all worship has a liturgy.

Having said that, United Methodists are by definition and tradition liturgical. I would direct you to the official statement by the Church regarding normative worship.\

Methodism was by its history and tradition a balance of the evangelical and the sacramental.
 
O.S.Luke said:
Liturgy, gk leitorgia, literally means “the work of the people.” All worship is the work of the people, and all worship has a liturgy.

Having said that, United Methodists are by definition and tradition liturgical. I would direct you to the official statement by the Church regarding normative worship.\

Methodism was by its history and tradition a balance of the evangelical and the sacramental.
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Sure, but if you compare a Methodist service to an Episcopal or Lutheran service, there is little in common from a liturgical sense. The Methodists will use some of the liturgy from the BCP during the Lord’s Supper, but even there it is not much from the Episcopal perspective. Nothing wrong with the Methodists, I just do not think that they are a liturgical church. Not in my experience at least, and I was raised Methodist and my family is still Methodist. I believe that you are Methodist as well, but maybe your experience has been different. Have you attended Episcopal and Lutheran services as a point of comparison?
 
Been Methodist all of my life, grew up around Episcopalians, and was a musician for a Catholic Church for two years. I’ve always seen the UMC as nothing LESS than a liturgical and sacramental church. I also belong to a UMC religious order devoted to sacramental education and practice.

Service of Word and Table I is virtually identical to Rite II in the BCP, except our eucharistic prayer is more Hippolytan than the BCP.
 
O.S.Luke said:
Been Methodist all of my life, grew up around Episcopalians, and was a musician for a Catholic Church for two years. I’ve always seen the UMC as nothing LESS than a liturgical and sacramental church. I also belong to a UMC religious order devoted to sacramental education and practice.

Service of Word and Table I is virtually identical to Rite II in the BCP, except our eucharistic prayer is more Hippolytan than the BCP.
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Well, you certainly have the experience then to make an educated comparison. Perhaps there are regional differences, because the Episcopal services I used to go to are very different from the Methodist ones I’ve attended. For one thing, the Episcopal service is going to be pretty much liturgical throughout. The Methodist services (which I’ve attended at least) look liturgical only at the point of the service that commences with the Lord’s Supper. Maybe another difference is the frequency of communion. I see your signature below, but I’d still hazard a guess that most Methodists take communion only once a month. So, if that is the case, the other three weeks are less liturgical. In comparison, most Episcopal services will have the Eucharist each week (they have been getting away from morning prayer for a while). I spent about 23 years in the Methodist Church in Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia and 20 years in the Episcopal Church in Virginia. It is interesting to see that we have very different conclusions about something that is not that complex. No wonder then that Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox come to different conclusions on more complex subjects!
 
Steadfast said:
Do you really want to start with me?

Because here is what will happen:

You will hamfistedly propose cartoons of history which I will then use nuance and a broader view to punch holes in, creating a more variegated picture and one considerably less congenial to the Catholic Fundamentalist.

But it won’t make any difference because to a certain mindset it is better not to allow oneself to be confused by facts.
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What is this? The argument by intimidation?

Jeremy
 
“Episcopalian, also known as “catholic light”, all the same sins, half the guilt.” -----Robin Williams
 
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