Denominations which allow Women Pastors.

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GK said:
Lutherans and Anglicans are, how you say, motley.

Some more Catholic than others. In many dimensions.

GK
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Anglicans may be motley, as you often proclaim. Lutherans are precise and quite exact in matters of salvation.
 
EvangelCatholic said:
I must have missed it, Jon. Can you state again where Augustana forbids women priests?
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Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order.
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Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.
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But the issue of “proof” falls on you, as it is your communion’s determination that the ordination of women is both scriptural and confessional. So, the question stands, can you state where in scripture, the confessions, the councils of the early Church, the tradition of the Church, east or west, the ordination of women is considered orthodox?

Jon
 
GKC said:
Motley, then. Perhaps on other issues as well.

GKC
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The thing is, the LCMS has stood, essentially still this last 50 years or so, while the ELCA has drifted, and in some cases marched, away from Lutheran orthodoxy.

Jon
 
PRmerger said:
Could you please cite your sources? How does one know that this is the Mass that these women are celebrating?
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Good question:
There is no record of any special form of them during the first four centuries. It is probable that the garb of the clergy in those times was the common dress of laymen. The outer garments worn by men of those days were long and flowing, a modified form of the old Roman toga; and consequently the vestments used in the divine service took the same general form. Gradually the custom was introduced of making them of rich and costly materials, to add greater beauty thereby to the rites of religion. When the hardy barbarians of the North had overwhelmed the luxurious nations of southern Europe and had brought in their own fashions of dress, the Church did not see fit to change the garb of her ministers as worn at the services of her ritual, but she permitted them to change their ordinary dress to some extent, and forbade them to wear their vestments except while officiating at sacred rites.
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awakentoprayer.org/vestments.htm

:hmmm:

Jon
 
JonNC said:
But the issue of “proof” falls on you, as it is your communion’s determination that the ordination of women is both scriptural and confessional. So, the question stands, can you state where in scripture, the confessions, the councils of the early Church, the tradition of the Church, east or west, the ordination of women is considered orthodox?

Jon
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Nice deflection!
 
PRmerger said:
👍

Firstly, as this is a* Catholic* forum, you are going to get, well, Catholic responses. Lots of them. Most of them.

Secondly, as this dialogue segued, it was YOU who brought up the Catholic Faith.

To wit:
These are your words (bold mine):

And I simply responded that Paul’s words must be understood with the lens of the Faith which gave us these words.

And that only in a Bible Alone forum would there be a problem with Paul’s injunction to have women be silent in church while yet having women lectors.

Incidentally, the Catholic Church has no women Eucharistic ministers.

Priests and deacons are Eucharistic ministers.

All lay people are Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion.

Not Eucharistic ministers.
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Just to clarify for you it was not me but (name removed by moderator) who first said the women I had referred to were not following the teaching of the Catholic Church. I was merely agreeing. And thanks for the semantics or vocabulary lesson on what Catholics call women who are ministers of or who distribute Communion. Have a good day.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Just to clarify for you it was not me but (name removed by moderator) who first said the women I had referred to were not following the teaching of the Catholic Church.
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Fair enough.

Catholicism was part of the discussion, then.

QED.
And thanks for the semantics or vocabulary lesson on what Catholics call women who are ministers of or who distribute Communion. Have a good day.
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It’s not a semantics or vocabulary lesson I was explaining to you, Sy.

Rather, it’s a theological position. Very important distinction I was making for you.

I would hope that you will now be better informed and never use the term “Eucharistic Minister”, unless you are referring to a priest or deacon.

Again, the theology that is being posited is of great import. It is the foundation for understanding the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The priest is the ordinary minister of Holy Communion, because it is he who confects the Eucharist.

The lay ministers are merely the extra-ordinary distributors.
 
Sometimes it is best to personalize the subject as I hope to do with the attached video. To my knowledge, the Church of Sweden was the first among Catholics to ordain women. Even the Church of England, which has had full communion with these Lutherans since the 1800’s, stopped ecumenical relations with Uppsala for 10 years after the first Lutheran woman priest *.

Take a look at these women processing in the Hogmassa [Holy Mass]; the celebrant is carrying in the chalice, as is the custom among some Lutherans. All these joyous faces praising God.

youtube.com/watch?v=styhk1N8AmM*
 
JonNC said:
The thing is, the LCMS has stood, essentially still this last 50 years or so, while the ELCA has drifted, and in some cases marched, away from Lutheran orthodoxy.

Jon
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Sounds familiar. Very familiar. Very, very familiar.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus
 
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