Denying a father to parent his child

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I’m sorry? What does that have to do with getting married and STAYING married? Valid/invalid is only in case of divorce and annulment. Plenty of Catholics have married because of a child, and many of them have STAYED married through challenges. How would that be out of line with Catholic teaching, to provide a family for your own child?

Honestly your response puzzles me. If the parents both want the child, and they were together long enough to create the child, then they should honestly consider whether marriage is a viable option. They would have to put aside their own desires (after the fact) and put the other and the child ahead of their own wants, though.
Having been in the same situation I can tell you a priest will not marry a couple until the child is born and at least a few months old. Priests had advised us to wait until after the birth before deciding so that a marriage would be entered in validly and not under duress. As one priest put it “just because you are having a child together does not mean you are called to be married to each other.”
 
I’m sorry? What does that have to do with getting married and STAYING married? Valid/invalid is only in case of divorce and annulment. Plenty of Catholics have married because of a child, and many of them have STAYED married through challenges. How would that be out of line with Catholic teaching, to provide a family for your own child?

Honestly your response puzzles me. If the parents both want the child, and they were together long enough to create the child, then they should honestly consider whether marriage is a viable option. They would have to put aside their own desires (after the fact) and put the other and the child ahead of their own wants, though.
Indeed. Stick to your guns. Who is to say that love is not in such a marriage? Rather officious to do so methinks.
 
Unwed mothers do not choose to have their babies to increase the number of adoptable babies in the market. Perhaps, people wanting to adopt should think about the older children waiting, often in vain, for a family.
I wish I could follow what you are trying to say here…
 
I wish I could follow what you are trying to say here…
She is saying that many waiting to adopt should consider fostering and adopting children (not babies) who are eligible for adoption and need homes. Also, to her first point she is saying that just because it is an unwed pregnancy does not automatically mean the child should be placed for adoption. For those who think like this, please do the crisis pregnancy centers a favor and don’t volunteer. Adoption is a wonderful option but not the only one for a crisis pregnancy. And, it comes with a lot of pain for all involved. If you cannot see that then you are not looking at this option realistically.
 
Having been in the same situation I can tell you a priest will not marry a couple until the child is born and at least a few months old. Priests had advised us to wait until after the birth before deciding so that a marriage would be entered in validly and not under duress. As one priest put it “just because you are having a child together does not mean you are called to be married to each other.”
and waiting is OK, but the marriage should not be ruled out if the father may be willing to do the right thing. I know this is out of fashion nowdays, the unmarried mother is so common, but not a few long-lasting marriages were constructed on an accidental pregnancy.

I admit that if they are of 2 different faiths and the families are already unsupportive and warring, they have their challenges, but sometimes that can lead to a Romeo-and-Juliet style closeness.

I just hate to see this whole situation, honestly. There’s no great solution. Pretty sure we all agree on that. Almost any of the choices except adoption leads to a possible unhappy outcome for the child.
 
and waiting is OK, but the marriage should not be ruled out if the father may be willing to do the right thing. I know this is out of fashion nowdays, the unmarried mother is so common, but not a few long-lasting marriages were constructed on an accidental pregnancy.

I admit that if they are of 2 different faiths and the families are already unsupportive and warring, they have their challenges, but sometimes that can lead to a Romeo-and-Juliet style closeness.

I just hate to see this whole situation, honestly. There’s no great solution. Pretty sure we all agree on that. Almost any of the choices except adoption leads to a possible unhappy outcome for the child.
Don’t assume that adoption is always a happy outcome for a child. While plenty of adoptees (myself included) have had happy lives I would not say that of every adoption. I have had some unhappy moments surrounding the fact that I am adopted and for non-adoptees this is very difficult to understand, but the complications are just different with adoption and sometimes those complications are not happy.
 
Don’t assume that adoption is always a happy outcome for a child. While plenty of adoptees (myself included) have had happy lives I would not say that of every adoption. I have had some unhappy moments surrounding the fact that I am adopted and for non-adoptees this is very difficult to understand, but the complications are just different with adoption and sometimes those complications are not happy.
Of course it’s not a guarantee, but it’s a lot more likely to be a happy outcome than starting out life with a teenage or young adult unmarried mother!
 
Of course it’s not a guarantee, but it’s a lot more likely to be a happy outcome than starting out life with a teenage or young adult unmarried mother!
Hmmmmmmm… The Lord can work in both situations methinks…

If at all feasibly possible, the child should be with the birth parent. Yes?
 
Hmmmmmmm… The Lord can work in both situations methinks…

If at all feasibly possible, the child should be with the birth parent. Yes?
No. I believe in adoption in cases of premarital pregnancy, in MOST cases. I think it’s selfishness that keeps teenagers from sacrificing for the greater good of the child. Also, getting pregnant out of wedlock has no shame attached to it now, so there is really no reason to give up the baby, especially since the government will help by providing welfare.

I know I argue for this couple to marry if at all possible, which may seem contradictory, but really the ideal would be for them to agree to give the baby up for adoption and then go their separate ways. Heartbreaking for them, but better for the child.

yes, of course the Lord can work in both situations, but statistics prove out that unmarried moms are the poorest segment of our society, just above the homeless.
 
Being poor does not equate to being unholy.

To sever the birth parent bond is indeed a traumatic thing. I personally opt for for keeping the bond. There are a plethora of documented phenomenon in regard to psychological, spiritual and biological connections between Birth Parent and Child.

For an example it has been reported that a female child will evidence secondary sex characteristics far quicker with an adopted father than a biological Father.

See here as well: livescience.com/1955-love-hormone-improves-mother-child-bond.html

and here: fatherandchild.org.nz/magazine/issue-13/the-bond-of-the-blood/
 
No. I believe in adoption in cases of premarital pregnancy, in MOST cases. I think it’s selfishness that keeps teenagers from sacrificing for the greater good of the child. Also, getting pregnant out of wedlock has no shame attached to it now, so there is really no reason to give up the baby, especially since the government will help by providing welfare.

I know I argue for this couple to marry if at all possible, which may seem contradictory, but really the ideal would be for them to agree to give the baby up for adoption and then go their separate ways. Heartbreaking for them, but better for the child.

yes, of course the Lord can work in both situations, but statistics prove out that unmarried moms are the poorest segment of our society, just above the homeless.
A lot of the unwed pregnancies are not of teenagers. Do we need to change the culture? Yes. Do we need to return to the Baby Scoop era? NO WAY!!!
 
No. I believe in adoption in cases of premarital pregnancy, in MOST cases. I think it’s selfishness that keeps teenagers from sacrificing for the greater good of the child. Also, getting pregnant out of wedlock has no shame attached to it now, so there is really no reason to give up the baby, especially since the government will help by providing welfare.

I know I argue for this couple to marry if at all possible, which may seem contradictory, but really the ideal would be for them to agree to give the baby up for adoption and then go their separate ways. Heartbreaking for them, but better for the child.

yes, of course the Lord can work in both situations, but statistics prove out that unmarried moms are the poorest segment of our society, just above the homeless.
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions here, from the assumption that unmarried mothers are all just selfish teenagers to the idea that wealth is so important that it should be the main factor to consider in who is the best gaurdian for a child. While adoption is clearly better in some cases, it certainly is not so in all, or even most. There are too many factors involved to make that kind of generalization.
 
No. I believe in adoption in cases of premarital pregnancy, in MOST cases. I think it’s selfishness that keeps teenagers from sacrificing for the greater good of the child. Also, getting pregnant out of wedlock has no shame attached to it now, so there is really no reason to give up the baby, especially since the government will help by providing welfare.

I know I argue for this couple to marry if at all possible, which may seem contradictory, but really the ideal would be for them to agree to give the baby up for adoption and then go their separate ways. Heartbreaking for them, but better for the child.

yes, of course the Lord can work in both situations, but statistics prove out that unmarried moms are the poorest segment of our society, just above the homeless.
It might seem ideal for you but really, it is not for you to tell an unwed mother to marry the father or give up her child. The Church does not say so. If the mother loves her baby and will do her best, (which strangely some think is not possible or improbable), great for the child. We cannot say on one hand that mothers have a bond with their children from birth, nuture them etc and then say a mother for the only reason that she is unwed, should give up her child. Should widows and widowers give up their children too?
 
Having been in the same situation I can tell you a priest will not marry a couple until the child is born and at least a few months old. Priests had advised us to wait until after the birth before deciding so that a marriage would be entered in validly and not under duress. As one priest put it “just because you are having a child together does not mean you are called to be married to each other.”
Totally untrue. A priest will not witness the marriage if he feels the couple has serious impediments to marriage or he knows the couple is being pressured to marry. My sister married at 7 months pregant (or so) and was married in the Church. Many years and four kids later they are very happy. Simply being pregnant is NOT, on its own, an impedimet to valid marriage.
 
It might seem ideal for you but really, it is not for you to tell an unwed mother to marry the father or give up her child. The Church does not say so. If the mother loves her baby and will do her best, (which strangely some think is not possible or improbable), great for the child. We cannot say on one hand that mothers have a bond with their children from birth, nuture them etc and then say a mother for the only reason that she is unwed, should give up her child. Should widows and widowers give up their children too?
That is ridiculous and you know it is. :rolleyes:
 
It might seem ideal for you but really, it is not for you to tell an unwed mother to marry the father or give up her child. The Church does not say so. If the mother loves her baby and will do her best, (which strangely some think is not possible or improbable), great for the child. We cannot say on one hand that mothers have a bond with their children from birth, nuture them etc and then say a mother for the only reason that she is unwed, should give up her child. Should widows and widowers give up their children too?
I am still trying to figure out what is being said here…
 
Abortion may pose a serious threat to a child’s life if the unwed mother doesn’t want to be further involved with her unborn baby’s father. For that reason, I would advise the young man in question to be very cautious when pushing for any of his “paternal rights”.
 
Abortion may pose a serious threat to a child’s life if the unwed mother doesn’t want to be further involved with her unborn baby’s father. For that reason, I would advise the young man in question to be very cautious when pushing for any of his “paternal rights”.
Oh good grief! Seriously? :rolleyes:You would deny Fathers their very own children because a woman might do something? Might get an abortion? How** misandric** is that?

What you suggest puts society in the role of ‘enabler of misbehavior.’ Women need to learn to take responsibility for their behavior. This is what abortion does too.

In essence Abortion encourages women to have the all the indicriminate sex they want, and if one gets pregnant, hey! Don’t sweat it! Planned Parenthood to the rescue!! :rolleyes: No. There are consequences and results to every behavior and women (men too) need to learn this.

I reiterate. Good grief.

By analogy, that is like saying we better give every citizen whatever they want in terms of Gov’t. entitlements or they just might rob a bank! :cool:

I beg you to reconsider.
 
I actually have a horse in this race and can speak deeply into this issue out of real experience. Before I do, there are a few things that I want to get out there first.

A father’s rights are inherent, given by God, and should only be removed if he is unfit, period.

A mother’s rights are inherent, given by God, and should only be removed if she is unfit, period.

Now, there is an absolute cloud over the major issue in this whole debate, and that is divorce in general and the reasons people list as the reasons. Irreconcilable differences is far and away the number one reason listed on divorce petitions, but such a large margin, it undermines the more serious reasons. People can’t get along or agree on things is the primary reason children are taken away from one of their parents.

There is also an absolute bias in preference of the mother. Make no mistake, it is a bias, and it is prevalent in every level of societal views on family rights. It is present in the abortion practice, birth certificates, custody, parenting time, and financial assets. The rights of the father in all of these instances is a back burner issue.

Societal view has relegated men, in the view of the courts, to sperm donors and financial contributors. It is the default position, and the burden of proof to the contrary is on the man’s shoulders, both legally and in the court of opinion. Where did this view come from? Is it based on any real evidence, facts, or study? Or is it based in the ideology of a movement with an agenda? I will not force my view down your throat, but the evidence is out there for anyone to find, do your own research.

In my divorce, I was not the petitioner. We both worked in stable jobs and were good parents. I was at home with my son during the daytime, and worked third shift to make sure he wasn’t in someones care other than his parents. That’s right I was there from the time he woke up until 9pm at night. My wife got home at 7pm every night and spent a few hours with him before bedtime.

When we separated, she asked me to move out and get my own place while we worked on things, which I did. I still spent the same time with my son, picking him up before she went to work. I still paid a large portion of her household bills and my own. I was, and remain a good father. There was no abuse, infidelity, or in-propriety of any kind…at least on my part.

The court gave primary custody to my wife, citing that because she was not unfit, the courts deference was to the mother. My son is 14 now, and has grown up with a part time dad. I have never missed a child support payment. I paid for braces because she could not afford it. I provide insurance, medical, dental, life. They live in a brand new 3 bedroom home, that I paid for (at least its a good place for my son), and I live in an apartment. I have been unable to claim him on my income taxes since the divorce, even thought I provide for at least half his needs. I have money set aside to help with his future education.
I do all of this because I love my son, and would have done it inside the marriage as well, not because the court said I should (incidentally, the support is the only thing court ordered in all of this).

There is no legitimate reason for the outcome, but there is a biased reason for it. And who really loses here? My son.
 
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