Denying oneself, emptying, etc

[AlanFromWichita]

What does it mean to deny oneself, as Jesus said we must?
(Matt 16:24, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23)

What does it mean to lose one’s life for Jesus’ sake?
(Matt 10:39, 16:25, Mk 8:35, Lk 9:24, 17:33, Jn 12:25)

What does it mean to go into our “private rooms” or “inner rooms” and pray, when most people lived in one room buildings?
(Matt 6:6)

Can we categorize these things as ways to “empty ourselves” and if so, of what?

What are other ways we are commanded to do similar things?

I have opinions on these things, in part because I am an advocate of contemplative prayer forms such as found in Lectio Divina’s last stage. With that hint at my own opinions, though, I’d like to open it up for others first so I can maybe hone my own ideas before promoting them.

Alan

 

[Trishie]

If we take Jesus’ understanding it always comes back to loving God above all and others as ourselves. It always comes back to love:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:36-40

Jesus describes the Last judgement in which He is judge of souls, but what He judges them upon is whether they lived acts of practical kindness. If they did, He also took the acts of practical kindness, even to the apparently least of persons, to have been done to Him. If they did no live in practical kindness to others then they had chosen hell. Matthew 31-46

It would seem that Jesus’ perception of denying oneself, “emptying oneself”, comes very much back to being unselfish and serving others. (Could I, by the way ask for a scriptural quote where Jesus actually used the words’, “empty yourself”. I’m not sure it it is scriptural, or religious-speak. To “deny ourselves” in the interests of loving God, loving others as self certainly is scriptural)

“Let us love one another, since love comes from God.” [John 4:7] "Since the Father loved us so much that He sent You to be the sacrifice that takes our sins away, we too should love one another.” [John 4:10-11] “By such love, everyone will know that we are Your disciples.” “Anyone who says ‘I love God’, and hates his brother is a liar, since a person who does not love the brother that he can see, cannot love God whom he has never seen.”
[1 letter of John 4:20-21]

Our love “is not to be mere words or mere talk, but something real and active; only by this can we be certain that we are children of the truth.” [John 3:18-19] Your apostle Paul exhorts, “Do not let your love be pretence, but sincerely prefer good to evil. Love each other as brothers should, and have a profound respect for each other…If any of the saints are in need you must share with them; and you must make hospitality your special care.” [Romans 12:9-13]

“Is there a poor brother among you, one of your brothers, in any town of yours? Do not harden your heart or close your hand against that poor brother of yours, but be open-handed with him.” [Deuteronomy 15:7-8] “Each one should give what he has decided in his own mind, not grudgingly or because he is made to, ‘for God loves a cheerful giver.’” [Proverbs 28:2] “And there is no limit to the blessings which God can send you…for yourselves…for all sorts of good works.” [2Corinthians 9:6-8] “None of us lives for himself only.” [Romans 14:7]

“We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves…For Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written, ‘The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me.’” [Romans. 15:1-3] “Malice must be banished from your tongue.” [Psalm 34:13] “Cease to do evil. Learn to do good, search for justice, help the oppressed, be just to the orphan, and plead for the widow. Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.” [Isaiah 1:17-18]

We can quote text after text that backs up this interpretation, of actually living-out of Christian love, that Jesus places on our call to follow Him. Without such practical love, (balanced in prayer and action) this “denying ourselves” and “emptying ourselves” means nothing, just a clashing of symbols.

 

[Trishie]

*Regarding denying oneself, emptying oneself…without love, these things have no life.
To love God, to love others with goodwill and prayer combined with acts of practical kindness, this is denying self. It costs to be unselfish, and to give to others, and even more, to be faithful in giving to others. And not merely to wish another well, but to actually work for their good, this is denying self, or emptying self if you wish *
“If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?” James 2:16. *But to do so often means that we have to deny our own comfort. That is denying self, but for love, as Jesus desires.
*
1 Corinthians 13 Love

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

The following is the “denying”, of selfish impulses

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

God bless you, Alan

 

[InLight247]

What does it mean to deny oneself, as Jesus said we must?
(Matt 16:24, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23)

Always put God’s will above our own.

What does it mean to lose one’s life for Jesus’ sake?
(Matt 10:39, 16:25, Mk 8:35, Lk 9:24, 17:33, Jn 12:25)

Dwell things of heaven, not things of earth, alway put God first. Live, move, and have one’s being in Him so it is not I live but Christ lives in me.

What does it mean to go into our “private rooms” or “inner rooms” and pray, when most people lived in one room buildings?
(Matt 6:6)

It is the inner room or our heart, not necessarily the physical room. Like Brother Lawrence said - be able to adore God even at the moment with a sword in hand.

Can we categorize these things as ways to “empty ourselves” and if so, of what?

Empty ourselves belongs to the efforts of working toward holiness that starts from the purity of heart followed by actions of generous love. This “empty” includes getting rid of any attachment not of God.

What are other ways we are commanded to do similar things?

Virtues, practice the presence of God, frequent recollection, pray with attentive listening, love our neighbors, share our talents, live a generous Gospel life …

I have opinions on these things, in part because I am an advocate of contemplative prayer forms such as found in Lectio Divina’s last stage. With that hint at my own opinions, though, I’d like to open it up for others first so I can maybe hone my own ideas before promoting them.

Alan

Just my thoughts, hope they help a little …

 

[Gertabelle]

Always put God’s will above our own.

Dwell things of heaven, not things of earth, alway put God first. Live, move, and have one’s being in Him so it is not I live but Christ lives in me.

It is the inner room or our heart, not necessarily the physical room. Like Brother Lawrence said - be able to adore God even at the moment with a sword in hand.

Empty ourselves belongs to the efforts of working toward holiness that starts from the purity of heart followed by actions of generous love. This “empty” includes getting rid of any attachment not of God.

Virtues, practice the presence of God, frequent recollection, pray with attentive listening, love our neighbors, share our talents, live a generous Gospel life …

Just my thoughts, hope they help a little …

Great post! Thanks. I also love your signature – that Psalm is my favorite scripture, and is my daily inspiration and guide post. “To be near God is my happiness. I have made the Lord God my refuge.”

Gertie

 

[DBT]

What does it mean to deny oneself, as Jesus said we must?
(Matt 16:24, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23)

What does it mean to lose one’s life for Jesus’ sake?
(Matt 10:39, 16:25, Mk 8:35, Lk 9:24, 17:33, Jn 12:25)

What does it mean to go into our “private rooms” or “inner rooms” and pray, when most people lived in one room buildings?
(Matt 6:6)

Can we categorize these things as ways to “empty ourselves” and if so, of what?

What are other ways we are commanded to do similar things?

I have opinions on these things, in part because I am an advocate of contemplative prayer forms such as found in Lectio Divina’s last stage. With that hint at my own opinions, though, I’d like to open it up for others first so I can maybe hone my own ideas before promoting them.

Alan

In a word, my answer to your post would be this: recollection; as recollection encompasses everything you say.

In recollection we:

1. Withdraw within ourselves as often as we can to be alone with Christ
2. View our hearts as a “hermitage” we take with us where ever we go. Thus, silence and simplicity is not a place we go to . . . but an attitude we maintain through everything we do.
3. Combat, habitually, the greatest destoyer of recollection . . . thoughts.
4. Understand that resisting the pull of our thoughts in order to be with Christ is in silence and simplicity is the height of spiritual asceticism . . . ie; denying oneself. And it is the gateway in which we pass from ascetic denial (recollection) . . . to mysticism (infused contemplation).

I’m currently spending ALOT of time with Francisco Osuna’s “Third Spiritual Alphabet” which can basically be described as a treatise on recollection. 600+ pages can basically be boiled down to the points above. This book is the single work that that influenced St. Teresa of Avila the most. And his teaching that “thoughts spoil everything” was a precursor to St. John of the Cross’ teaching on the via negativa . . . or nada . . . which lies at the heart of his treatment of the active night of spirit in which we learn to maintain habitual custody over the pull of our thoughts and feelings . . . so that they can be swept away by Christ in moments of pure contemplation when He desires to give it.

This kind of habitual denial and emptying is what makes possible the “last stage” of Lectio you allude to, imo. For if we are weighed down by our cares, concerns and preoccupations . . . we will not be able to enter into the silence in which He can be found. And wants to be found.

Dave

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Wow. These are some really great posts, and I don’t know what much more I can say at this point.

DBT, yours matches most closely to what I came into this thread thinking, but I’ve never heard it put together quite like that, in so few words.

Thank you all for your answers. I’m still trying to think of something to say that hasn’t already been said.

Alan