Denying the Crucifixion

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

We all know that Islam denies the crucifixion (see Qur’an 4:157). But is there any other group of people, in the 600 years from Jesus to Muhammad, that deny the crucifixion like the way muslims do?

 

[Valke2]

what about the Gospel of Barnabus?

 

[Delta2]

We all know that Islam denies the crucifixion (see Qur’an 4:157). But is there any other group of people, in the 600 years from Jesus to Muhammad, that deny the crucifixion like the way muslims do?

Manichaeism and Basilides gnostic sects

Here is some historical evidences of crucifixion :

answering-islam.org/Silas/crucified.htm

and here the details of that gnostic sects :

spotlights.org/Crucifixion4.htm

 

[inJESUS]

Gnostics believed Jesus was crucified in appearance, and Muhammad repeats the same words.

 

[Angelos]

what about the Gospel of Barnabus?

There is no historic evidence for the assertion that the Gospel of Barnabas existed prior to Mohammad and Islam.

 

[rpp]

Islam got many if it’s ideas from gnosticism, including the denial that Christ actually died on the cross. Islam is simply gnosticism taken to its logical conclusion. This is why many consider Islam not its own religion, but a Christian heresy.

 

[bpbasilphx]

** This is why many consider Islam not its own religion, but a Christian heresy.**

**There were non-Christian schools of gnosticism, as well. That’s what Kabbalism basically is. Gnosticism was not born of Christianity.

but by denying that Jesus died on the Cross, they think they are freed with having to come to terms with His Resurrection.

After all, a dead man only needs to be buried. A man who rises from the dead is in a position to make non-negotiable demands.

I confess there is no God but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**

 

[teancum79]

LOL thats great

 

[MelanieAnne]

You also have to recognize the milieu in which Islam was founded ~ in the physical and religious midst of Christianity and Judaism, with Islam even claiming ~ perhaps at least initially for expediency ~ many Christian and Jewish holy sites as also holy to Islam. Islam had to distinguish itself in some way. The easiest way to deny Christianity is to strike at the foundation of faith which is the resurrection of Jesus.

If Jesus didn’t die, then then was no resurrection (it wouldn’t be necessary to resurrect a man that was still alive) and Christianity is a fraud. That may not be how it is described in the Koran, but that is the essence of the Muslim belief. They HAVE to believe that Jesus didn’t die on the cross because to believe otherwise would put them on the path to Christianity.

In my opinion they are wrong, but not just about THIS, they are wrong about many things, starting with the nature of God.

 

[paarsurrey]

There is no historic evidence for the assertion that the Gospel of Barnabas existed prior to Mohammad and Islam.

Hi

There is no secular historic evidence for the assertion that Jesus existed prior to Mohammad and Islam. It is only because of Quran that we believe Jesus and Mary existed.

Thanks

 

[MelanieAnne]

Hi

There is no secular historic evidence for the assertion that Jesus existed prior to Mohammad and Islam. It is only because of Quran that we believe Jesus and Mary existed.

Thanks

That’s just not so. And while you’re at it, please provide the PROOF of the existence of Mohammad.

Sorry, I don’t mean to sound argumentative, but if the Koran is credible evidence (which I personally doubt because I believe it came from Satan to distract humanity from the Truth) then the scriptures that precede the Koran are also evidence because the Koran trades on the pre-existing beliefs and scriptures.

It is not rational to say the scriptures that came before are not credible if you want to prove the validity of your new religion, especially if your religion is based in some part on those scriptures. That’s just silly.

The fact is that Muslim belief is founded on the concept that there was no crucifixion/resurrection because that is the only way the religion could be established as a separate belief system. It’s a function of process. In my opinion it’s a flawed, erroneous process, but it is strictly a matter of process no matter what you believe.

 

[Catholic90]

Hi

There is no secular historic evidence for the assertion that Jesus existed prior to Mohammad and Islam. It is only because of Quran that we believe Jesus and Mary existed.

Thanks

This is absolutely a FALSE statement. Do some research and you will find PLENTY of reliable evidence of Jesus’ existence.

Islam is full of deceptions. This is just one more.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
There is no secular historic evidence for the assertion that Jesus existed prior to Mohammad and Islam. It is only because of Quran that we believe Jesus and Mary existed.**

**I believed in Jesus and Mary before I even heard there WAS a Coran.

Of course, the entities the Coran calls Jesus and Mary are not the real ones, anyway.

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead. **

 

[Angelos]

Hi

There is no secular historic evidence for the assertion that Jesus existed prior to Mohammad and Islam. It is only because of Quran that we believe Jesus and Mary existed.

Thanks

You mean that Christians existed prior to Islam and Mohammad although Jesus did not???

 

[Lilyflower]

You mean that Christians existed prior to Islam and Mohammad although Jesus did not???

Of course Christians and Christ existed before Islam, as did the Church

 

[Lilyflower]

**

There is no secular historic evidence for the assertion that Jesus existed prior to Mohammad and Islam. It is only because of Quran that we believe Jesus and Mary existed.**

 

[Lilyflower]

The Koran is flawed in its account of the Crucifixion since it states that when the Sanhedrin guard turned up to arrests Jesus at night in the dark, they took the wrong man. This is in direct conflict to the Gospels which faithfully record: Now the traitor [Judas] had agreed with them upon a signal: ‘The One I kiss is your man; seize Him and get Him safely away,’ When they reached the spot, he stepped forward at once and said to Jesus, ‘Rabbi’, and kissed Him. Then they seized Him and held Him fastMk 14:44-45

So there was no mistaken identity. But for further proof Jesus said to them: ‘Do you take me for a bandit that you have to come with swords and cudgels?’ I taught in the temple and you did not lay hands on me. But let scripture be fulfilled’. Mk 14:48-50

Also Recorded in Jn 18:1-12 where John records the event more eloquently. John leaves us in absolutely NO DOUBT that they had arrested Jesus.

 

[Lilyflower]

This will probably be my last posting, No doubt I will be booted off this forum for saying so but the Koran is a blasphemy.

Christians would be justified for burning Islamic images. They do not because the Holy Spirit is in them gently guiding them to love their Moslem brethren.

This further proves that He whose Name is unspeakable, moves with Christians. ‘You wil know them by their fruits!’

 

[Holly3278]

What about St Paul’s writings that existed within a few decades of Christ?

 

[Angelos]

Of course Christians and Christ existed before Islam, as did the Church

My question was a rhetorical one. I simply wanted to remind dear paarsurey that there would have been no Christians (believers in Christ) before Mohammad if Christ had not existed.