Depression or Mystical Union?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lady_Love
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Dave…thank you for taking the time to explain this. I believe I don’t feel so dense anymore. 🙂
. I totally agree with you that our response should be out of love. We can’t by our redemption
 
Dave, I never said that God causes evil or implied that God wants the abuse of a child. I was merely pointing out the way God can turn “all things to good.” I was pointing to the way God can transform our sufferings into joy and give them meaning and purpose.

I know quite a few individuals who suffer from ailments of the mind because of various forms of childhood trauma and they deserve the hope of mystical union, even in and through their brokenness.

Dave, I conclude that you have not understood what I am trying to communicate here. Maybe my understanding of depression is different than your understanding of depression.

I chuckle at you saying I need professional help. I know that I am not perfect and I do make mistakes, I am even wrong often, but I am very confident that God still finds me a useful tool. He often uses my imperfections to His advantage. I think before you make rash judgments about the state of my mental health, you should at least try to get to know me or even maybe adopt a spirit of charity and fraternal correction if needed, rather than resorting to the all discrediting statement that imply’s that there is something “wrong” with me, such as “You need professional help!”

I’m am sorry if I frustrate you with my logic, I believe we have a communication issue.

I happen to know well what Jensianism is and I have been fighting against it for years, constantly trying to convey the deep compassion and unrelenting love of God. Trying to lead people to hope where they perceive their is none.

My suggestion is to PM me. I am saddened that you may have already formulated an image/understanding of me that is rather unflattering but that too is human nature and I don’t hold it against you. I would like to get to know you outside of this thread. My the Holy Spirit rush upon you, give you peace and a heart that is warm, maybe grow even to like me.

Sincerely,

Beloved of Jesus
 
The title of this thread is very misleading, confusing and inappropriate to start with. The OP’s viewpoints are far- fetched to say the least. I am afraid people who have no clear understanding of dark night and mystical union with God will get confused and misled. After some of my posts trying to prevent the mix up of depression with spiritual matter, and after Dave’s great explanation of what Dark Night is and is not, it appeared that someone is still misled by what OP said. That’s quite unfortunate.

The more I read this thread the more I feel disheartened. Originally I was not going to post on this thread any more. But as OP’s posts get more and more twisted, I feel obligated to defend some innocent minds who may get confused.

To link mystical union with depression is dangerous and outrageous. It is an insult to the mystical union with God. OP further uses the case of child abuse to make it sounds like sex abuse is a gift from God. The way OP wrote is mixing some truth with complete falsehood. And that “something sounds correct” can disguise the part of falsehood if the reader does not read it carefully. For example, she said the child who has been sexually abused had “been given a full chalice of the suffering of Jesus,” (sounds a right saying) so it is “a gift”(total falsehood). Saying such a thing is to call the evil good, it is to use some sublime term to water down a real tragedy and give it a false good name. It is misleading, dangerous and very cruel.

Depression has nothing to do with neither dark night nor mystical union, whatsoever. period.
 
I am sorry if this thread has caused confusion. My intentions for this thread are being misunderstood and the more I try to explain my questioning of the matter and my process of thinking, the more confused people seem to be about it.

It seems that I have angered some by my question and comparison. I need to clarify a few thing though. My example of child abuse is NEVER to imply that God wills child abuse! That’s absurd! And I am a bit insulted that anyone would think that is what I am implying!

I was using it as an example of how a person who has suffered trauma can find hope and even union with Christ by means of what they suffer. Unless you believe that only those who have never been victims of trauma are the only ones called to mystical union?
 
Lady_Love said:
I am sorry if this thread has caused confusion. My intentions for this thread are being misunderstood and the more I try to explain my questioning of the matter and my process of thinking, the more confused people seem to be about it.

It seems that I have angered some by my question and comparison. I need to clarify a few thing though. My example of child abuse is NEVER to imply that God wills child abuse! That’s absurd! And I am a bit insulted that anyone would think that is what I am implying!

I was using it as an example of how a person who has suffered trauma can find hope and even union with Christ by means of what they suffer. Unless you believe that only those who have never been victims of trauma are the only ones called to mystical union?
Click to expand...
Well…I don’t think they are saying that. Well I hope they are not saying that because if they are then I’m toast!
 
simple_soul said:
Well…I don’t think they are saying that. Well I hope they are not saying that because if they are then I’m toast!
Click to expand...
Simple soul, you are correct. I am not saying that. Don’t be confused.

My post did not say that OP was saying God “willed” child abuse. she needs to re-read my post.
 
InLight247 said:
Simple soul, you are correct. I am not saying that. Don’t be confused.

My post did not say that OP was saying God “willed” child abuse. she needs to re-read my post.
Click to expand...
You stated in your post that I “make it sound like child abuse is a gift from God.”

So if that is not what you were implying, please clarify now.
 
Originally by Inlight247
For example, she said the child who has been sexually abused had “been given a full chalice of the suffering of Jesus,” (sounds a right saying) so it is “a gift”(total falsehood).
Click to expand...
I am not saying OP said God “willed” child sex abuse. I am saying OP linked child abuse as a gift by “a full chalice”. It is a way of misleading and causing confusion just like her thread title and all her posts in this thread.
 
InLight247 said:
I am not saying OP said God “willed” child sex abuse. I am saying OP linked child abuse as a gift by “a full chalice”. It is a way of misleading and causing confusion just like her thread title and all her posts in this thread.
Click to expand...
You might find this shocking but a woman who was a victim of child abuse recently referred to her trauma as a “gift.” Not the trauma itself but the journey that it took her on into a deeper relationship with God. This woman, in my opinion, is a very holy woman who dedicates her life to her many children and her christian community, a woman full of the Holy Spirit.

Maybe it is scandalous for her to refer to it as a “gift” but maybe we all have something to learn here.
 
A person by God’s grace could excel above his misfortune and develop a deeper relationship with God.

It is important to be completely clear that the gift is not the horrible experience itself, but rather God’s grace in helping those people to grow spiritually from it. This is totally different from calling depression as a mystical union.
 
You are right. It is confusing. I have found this thread informative and clarifying the differences between purgation and redemptive suffering.
 
Lady_Love said:
books.google.com/books?id=g0QQtlJSyOEC&pg=PA206&lpg=PA206&dq=psychology+and+dark+night+of+the+soul&source=bl&ots=SLCTR238QN&sig=gt-LPTy81xEIlyyyFWfwG-hPRFQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HAGaUdDGKKXn0wHhtICwDg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=psychology%20and%20dark%20night%20of%20the%20soul&f=false

Here is the “Encyclopedia of psychology” which discusses the Dark Night and depression for those who want to read the psychologists point of view.
Click to expand...
All I can say is wow from the little bit that I read. Especially the part that the link opened to. It is almost like reading a study of myself. I remember having those kind of conversations like I had two people inside of me arguing about morals and politics and anything else that happened to pop into my mind. I remember when I was younger my mother observed me in one of those conversations and laughingly asked me what I was doing. I must have really gotten into the conversation because she could see I was talking and expressing what I was talking about by enacting the two sides. It was like I was acting out the role of each side of the conversation. I was kind of embarrass that I had become so absorbed in what I was doing that I was not aware of the fact that I was talking loud enough and using facial expression to emphasize the argument I was having in my head so I just told her I was talking to myself. She just warned me that to talk to myself was ok but if I started to answer then there was a problem. It would mean I was crazy. I was kind of petrified and did not dare tell her I was already getting answers let alone full blown conversations.
For better or worse this is the first time I have ever heard of these kind of conversation as being something other than just a crazy person talking to themselves. I wonder how much truth there is to what they are saying.

The other thing this reading has reminded me of is something I realized the other day.
I believe that there is an insidious evil out there that wants us to be devoid of any kind of feelings and emotions. This lack of detachment from feeling anything is what is stifling and choking the very life out of us in that downward spiral of chaos and confusion. This lack of emotional feelings is why we have bombings with the intent to kill, mass shooting killing sprees, and is epitomized in abortion. It is because people don’t care and no amount of reasons will convince them that it is evil. They need to care in order to care one has to have feelings about something. Because love is a feeling and we will not let ourselves feel it we are enraged when we see others who show their feelings and do unspeakable evils against them with every though word or action. We have made war on Love. God Himself who is our very life and it is epitomized in the act of abortion. … It is like this burning flame of desire to do God’s Will is all an emotion and there for bad but its not.

From what I grasped of the reading it is like they have realized what I am realizing. We have to learn to care again. We have to learn how to feel again. If we do not we are like emotionless robots capable of unspeakable atrocities and this is epitomized in abortion…we have to quite numbing ourselves from trying not to feel…

Sorry to just ramble on here…but I hope and pray it makes some sense… and that I really am understanding what I am reading and am not too far of base with it…
 
I absolutely believe that a person who is deeply depressed and emotionally drained could be being called to the religious life, be that the sisterhood, priesthood, or simply a prayer warrior for Christ. This I do know… I was on various meds and visited with countless psychiatrists, for many, many years… to no avail. It wasn’t until I began confiding in God and serving others that I FINALLY found the motivation to fight the deep sadness in my heart. By the grace of God alone, I was able to wake up in the morning, get a job and start being active in my childrens lives. God chastises those He loves… to strengthen them, to help them reach their full potential. When we willingly accept our cross and carry it… all of the pain and misery lessons, because we know that God is going to bring out a greater good. The knowledge of this not only makes the journey bearable… it makes it enjoyable at times. 🙂 It is not always an easy road, but its a joyful one.
 
Lady_Love said:
You are right. It is confusing. I have found this thread informative and clarifying the differences between purgation and redemptive suffering.
Click to expand...
I think your post above is a perfect stopping point of this confusing thread. 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top