Describe mortal vs venial sin

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There is a concept that seems to be lost here. Please forgive me if I have missed this. Just because we are only required to confess mortal sins, this does not mean that venial sins are not an affront to God. We should not dismiss venial sin as “unimportant.” Rather all sin is bad, and should be avoided at all costs. Mortal sin is just the type of sin that causes a break in the relationship. To put it in human terms: Lying to your friend about something trivial is bad, but it probably won’t destroy the friendship, although it will affect it negatively. Having an affair with your friends wife will sever the relationship. Think of the same kind of thing with venial and mortal sin. Venial sin will have a negative effect on your relationship with the Lord, but mortal sin will sever communion until it is dealt with. (My apologies for the poor analogy).
 
Bookcat said:
In addition to what already wrote…

it opens the door to scruples and is not clear …

for example under mortal sin it includes…

“denying help to the poor, needy or destitute when able to help them easily”

He says this is serious matter…without further detail…

so a poor person asks for money on the street…and you easily could give them a couple dollars…but do not…that is mortal sin???

of course there are ways to commit a mortal sin in this area…

or “knowingly voting for someone who is pro-abortion” is also grave…

well it can be…

but what about when both canidates are pro abortion??

this just is too fuzzy…and like i said bound to cause people problems…especially those with scruples! in fact a mine-field for them…
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Not to derail the discussion but - Why should one feel confined to Two candidates.
Too many people are easily duped into thinking they must vote for one of the major party candidates.
In many elections, especially in federal ones there are more than two options. Plus a place for a write in candidate.
If you wish to make your vote really count, vote third party, or vote write in.
The big parties want you to think that such voting is just “throwing away your vote”. But is it? When Ross Perot’s group pulled something like 11% of the popular vote, the other parties couldn’t scramble fast enough to try and win those voters back. Then once they did, it was right back to “business as usual”.
Think about how important the so called “swing votes” are. Most elections are decided by less than 5% of the vote these days. If sufficient numbers of people start voting for third party candidates, the majors start looking for the reason so they can adjust their campaigns and platforms to lure those voters back. It’s just common sense to recognize that we should vote for the person that reflects our views most closely whether that person has much chance of winning or not.

Peace
James
 
CWBetts said:
We should not dismiss venial sin as “unimportant.”
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Yes of course…

CCC

1863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134
 
JRKH said:
Not to derail the discussion but - Why should one feel confined to Two candidates.
Too many people are easily duped into thinking they must vote for one of the major party candidates.
In many elections, especially in federal ones there are more than two options. Plus a place for a write in candidate.
If you wish to make your vote really count, vote third party, or vote write in.
The big parties want you to think that such voting is just “throwing away your vote”. But is it? When Ross Perot’s group pulled something like 11% of the popular vote, the other parties couldn’t scramble fast enough to try and win those voters back. Then once they did, it was right back to “business as usual”.
Think about how important the so called “swing votes” are. Most elections are decided by less than 5% of the vote these days. If sufficient numbers of people start voting for third party candidates, the majors start looking for the reason so they can adjust their campaigns and platforms to lure those voters back. It’s just common sense to recognize that we should vote for the person that reflects our views most closely whether that person has much chance of winning or not.

Peace
James
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I have voted for others (locally) myself. (but on a larger scale…when life is on the line…it is in my opinion to choose one who can win and who is prolife…in fact the older moral manuals gave the example of if ones voting one way …let a bad person into office…that this was a problem…that sometimes one needs to vote to keep the worst out of office!)

but one can still often all of them are pro-abortion…but one is not pro-killing the sick elderly…so…

anyhow it is best to start a new thread on this if you like.
 
CWBetts said:
There is a concept that seems to be lost here. Please forgive me if I have missed this. Just because we are only required to confess mortal sins, this does not mean that venial sins are not an affront to God. We should not dismiss venial sin as “unimportant.” Rather all sin is bad, and should be avoided at all costs. Mortal sin is just the type of sin that causes a break in the relationship. To put it in human terms: Lying to your friend about something trivial is bad, but it probably won’t destroy the friendship, although it will affect it negatively. Having an affair with your friends wife will sever the relationship. Think of the same kind of thing with venial and mortal sin. Venial sin will have a negative effect on your relationship with the Lord, but mortal sin will sever communion until it is dealt with. (My apologies for the poor analogy).
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Very true!

‘I tell you that you must purify your soul from all inclination to venial sin; that is to say, you must not voluntarily retain any deliberate intention of permitting yourself to commit any venial sin whatever.’

St. Francis de Sales

‘All who do not attend to what is smallest will fall into what is greater. For even a venial sin, by which conscience is disturbed, will become mortal if exercised and made habitual, and will be punished severely because of the negligence shown.’

The Holy Spirit to St. Bridget of Sweden

Again, maintain your fear of God in order not to fall through pride, even though you do not consent to the thoughts. Anyone who stands firm stands by the power of God alone. Thus fear of God is like the gateway into heaven. Many there are who have fallen headlong to their deaths, because they cast off the fear of God and were then ashamed to make a confession before men, although they had not been ashamed to sin before God. Therefore, I shall refuse to absolve the sin of a person who has not cared enough to ask my pardon for a small sin. In this manner, sins are increased through habitual practice, and a venial sin that could have been pardoned through contrition becomes a serious one through a person’s negligence and scorn, as you can deduce from the case of this soul who has already been condemned.

After having committed a venial and pardonable sin, he augmented it through habitual practice, trusting to his other good works, without thinking that I might take lesser sins into account. Caught in a net of habitual and inordinate pleasure, his soul neither corrected nor curbed his sinful intention, until the time for his sentencing stood at the gates and his final moment was approaching. This is why, as the end approached, his conscience was suddenly agitated and painfully afflicted because he was soon to die and he was afraid to lose the little, temporary good he had loved. Up until a sinner’s final moment God abides him, waiting to see if he is going to direct his free will away from his attachment to sin.

However, if a soul’s will is not corrected, that soul is then confined by an end without end. What happens is that the devil, knowing that each person will be judged according to his conscience and intention, labors mightily at the end of life to distract the soul and turn it away from rectitude of intention, and God allows it to happen, since the soul refused to remain vigilant when it ought to have.

The Lord Jesus Christ to St. Bridget
 
I was on a Miles Chirsti retreat a couple of years ago, and the priest preaching the retreat spoke of the common mistake that we sometimes make of “making a pact with venial sin”. He explained that sometimes we do habitual venial sins…and because we do them so often, they eventually open the door for mortal sins to take their place.

Makes sense.
 
Bookcat said:
I have voted for others (locally) myself. (but on a larger scale…when life is on the line…it is in my opinion to choose one who can win and who is prolife…in fact the older moral manuals gave the example of if ones voting one way …let a bad person into office…that this was a problem…that sometimes one needs to vote to keep the worst out of office!)

but one can still often all of them are pro-abortion…but one is not pro-killing the sick elderly…so…

anyhow it is best to start a new thread on this if you like.
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True, It was not my intention to get off topic.
Just wanted to get a plug in about not getting “tied up” in the whole “2 party myth”.

Peace
James
 
holy_moly said:
OnceLostSoul;6296755:
The pastor’s reply was that
a) one cannot build a theology based on a single verse.
b) any teaching that white lies are not sins that condemns one to Hell if one dies unrepentant would contradicts scripture verse Rev 21:8.

Sounds like that pastor is contradicting himself & is basing his theology on one …verse (Rev 21:8) :eek:
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I found a second Bible quotation to support and confirm the passage quoted earlier (1 John 5:16-17) on the concept of mortal and venial sins.

Jesus Himself distinguishes between greater and lesser sins when He said this to Pontius Pilate:
Jesus answered him, ‘You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.’ (John 19:11)
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Other than Catholics and Orthodox Christians, most Christians do not believe in a distinction between between mortal and venial sins. Note that the term ‘venial sin’ is never explicitly mentioned in the Scriptures, although ‘mortal sin’ is mentioned in some bible versions like NRSV.

The pastor also cited “Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it” (James 2:10). So he wasn’t building a theology based on just 1 verse either.
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Are heresy and apostasy mortal sins?? I found the definition but not the penalties.
Are heretics excommunicated?
Is a schismatic in mortal sin? I believe schismatics such as Society of St. Pius X—the “Lefebvrists” are automatically excommunicated? Are they also in a state of mortal sin for not submitting as it is defined below.
Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
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apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
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schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him
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thanks,
dona
 
donanobis said:
Are heresy and apostasy mortal sins?? I found the definition but not the penalties.
Are heretics excommunicated?
Is a schismatic in mortal sin? I believe schismatics such as Society of St. Pius X—the “Lefebvrists” are automatically excommunicated? Are they also in a state of mortal sin for not submitting as it is defined below.

thanks,
dona
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The excommunications against the SSPX have been lifted. As for apostasy and heresy, they are mortal sins if they are done with full knowledge and full consent of the will (which, I really don’t see how all three conditions would not be met for these sins.)
 
CWBetts said:
The excommunications against the SSPX have been lifted. As for apostasy and heresy, they are mortal sins if they are done with full knowledge and full consent of the will (which, I really don’t see how all three conditions would not be met for these sins.)
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I agree to the extent of those “leading” an apostosy or heresy. There may be less culpability for those who are misled by these “trusted” leaders.

Peace
James
 
Bookcat said:
Can not say that I recommend this one…too much opinion there. Some of which I disagree with…
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Only my opinion, please take it or leave it, but the above reminds me once when someone told me that examining their conscience made them feel “uncomfortable.”

Which then reminded me of listening to a talk or something about how many of us have lost a sense of sin.

Which then reminded me of the effects of sin and to simply look at a crucifix to see what Jesus suffered because of our sins. Which them reminded me of His words “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”

just my two cents…
 
crenfro said:
Only my opinion, please take it or leave it, but the above reminds me once when someone told me that examining their conscience made them feel “uncomfortable.”

Which then reminded me of listening to a talk or something about how many of us have lost a sense of sin.

Which then reminded me of the effects of sin and to simply look at a crucifix to see what Jesus suffered because of our sins. Which them reminded me of His words “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”

just my two cents…
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I certainly have not lost a sense of sin. I seek to always think with the Church … I hold that …one must see sin as sin. Mortal sin as mortal sin. Imperfections as imperfections. Virtues as virtues.

But as to this examine…while there is much there that is right on target…

I cannot recommend that particular examination of conscience. Too much opinion etc and especially for those with scruples I certainly would not recommend them read it…
 
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