Describe the most liturgically abused Mass that you have ever been to

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My goodness, I feel a LOT better about the many churches I’ve been to in my travels.

I think the worst one would have been when we were traveling and something about the church just felt…off. The Tabernacle was incredibly hard to find. The priest had a female assistant of some sort, and she read the gospel and gave the homily. (Honestly, I was pretty young, and I didn’t really notice that this wasn’t proper). But when, during the consecration, she lifted the chalice (while the priest lifted the bread), even I noticed something weird was going on, and my whole family marched out. (So I don’t know what else happened).

But God was apparently watching out for us, because we kept driving, and when we reached our destination there was a Catholic church right next to the hotel, and they had a mass just starting! (at 10pm yet!) 👍

I only remember one other mass, somewhere in the boonies where there was a real priest shortage. The priest was VERY elderly and in poor health (and serving 3 parishes). He sped through the mass so fast, the people hadn’t even finished their responses and he was on to the next prayer. And he literally shoved the Eucharist into your hand to speed up the line. (I saw him after mass collapsing into a car, where someone was driving him to his next parish for **another ** mass, so I really felt sorry for him) 😦

Tif
 
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Mordocai:
ok huge question:
How does one know if the Mass you’re attending IS VALID.
I’ve been to a few Masses that really upset me and some youth Masses that saddened my soul, but they were valid I know that.
What makes a Mass invalid?

And also, WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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For the Mass to be valid, a few things must be present
  1. A validly ordained priest
  2. The correct Words of Consecration ( “this is my body”, “this is my blood”), said by the priest
  3. Intent, the priest must intend to confect the Eucharist.
  4. Valid Matter. 100% wheat bread, no additives, and 100% grape wine, no additives (any color is fine).
#4 is usually the biggest problem. Too many parishes try alternate breads, with honey, raisins ect…
 
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Brendan:
For the Mass to be valid, a few things must be present
  1. A validly ordained priest
  2. The correct Words of Consecration ( “this is my body”, “this is my blood”), said by the priest
  3. Intent, the priest must intend to confect the Eucharist.
  4. Valid Matter. 100% wheat bread, no additives, and 100% grape wine, no additives (any color is fine).
#4 is usually the biggest problem. Too many parishes try alternate breads, with honey, raisins ect…
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Ok, I can’t believe the honey raisin thing :eek: Brendan is this for real? I’ve never heard of it. I do have a question my friend, what is meant by “confect”? I like this list you put up by can you give a little more detail. So far it looks my priest is doing it right but I am curious about a few things. 🙂
 
“Liturgical” dancer in leotard lead the procession into mass carrying a bowl of incense - no water added to the wine, everyone was to stand during consecration, more “euchristic” ministers than a baseball team, all of them women, “…us and for all” rather than “…for all men” priest wandered around during the “sign of peace”, “…but only say the word and I shall be healed” left out, no crucifix or cross, tabernacle 'way off in an alcove. I don’t remember what else.

Except for the dancer, this was EVERY sunday - I guess the dancer was for special occasions. EDIT
 
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TraderTif:
My goodness, I feel a LOT better about the many churches I’ve been to in my travels.

I think the worst one would have been when we were traveling and something about the church just felt…off. The Tabernacle was incredibly hard to find. The priest had a female assistant of some sort, and she read the gospel and gave the homily. (Honestly, I was pretty young, and I didn’t really notice that this wasn’t proper). But when, during the consecration, she lifted the chalice (while the priest lifted the bread), even I noticed something weird was going on, and my whole family marched out. (So I don’t know what else happened).

But God was apparently watching out for us, because we kept driving, and when we reached our destination there was a Catholic church right next to the hotel, and they had a mass just starting! (at 10pm yet!) 👍

I only remember one other mass, somewhere in the boonies where there was a real priest shortage. The priest was VERY elderly and in poor health (and serving 3 parishes). He sped through the mass so fast, the people hadn’t even finished their responses and he was on to the next prayer. And he literally shoved the Eucharist into your hand to speed up the line. (I saw him after mass collapsing into a car, where someone was driving him to his next parish for **another ** mass, so I really felt sorry for him) 😦

Tif
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10 PM MASS? And it wasn’t Christmas Eve or anything? I find that most unusual. Almost qualifies as a miracle even. :angel1:

Mind you I do feel sorry for priests who have to cover a lot of territory.
 
The intentions are important to me, not the way you perform the ceremony. The only time I had a problem was when the pastor started trying to tell the congregation what to do in a political matter.
 
“Liturgical” dancer in leotard lead the procession into mass carrying a bowl of incense - no water added to the wine, everyone was to stand during consecration, more “euchristic” ministers than a baseball team, all of them women, “…us and for all” rather than “…for all men” priest wandered around during the “sign of peace”, “…but only say the word and I shall be healed” left out, no crucifix or cross, tabernacle 'way off in an alcove. I don’t remember what else.
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Except for the dancer, this was EVERY sunday - I guess the dancer was for special occasions.
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What are these “bowls of incense”? Have they never heard of a boat and thurible? A censer at least?

I am reminded instead of pagan worship (the paten actually was, before the Christians adopted it as communion plate, an incense holder). The normal pagan practise was to have incense in a bowl and to sort of walk and let it smoke upwards.

If I am not mistaken, the thurible is more of a Jewish custom. This is an honourable origin indeed.
 
Has anyone ever been to a Mass in which the congregation was invited to "co-consecrate:mad: " the Eucharist along with the Priest?

I haven’t, but has anybody else been to such a Mass?
 
LilyM said:
10 PM MASS? And it wasn’t Christmas Eve or anything? I find that most unusual. Almost qualifies as a miracle even. :angel1:
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During the school year we have a Sunday Mass at 9PM every week. But I live in a college town, so maybe that is why.

After reading these, I am very happy that most, if not all, of the Masses that I have attended have been abuse free. Or abuse free enough for me to really have to look for the problems.
 
I went to an invalid Mass once. The priest changed the words of consecration to: “This bread is my body”. This immediately invalidated the consecration of the wine too. When I asked the priest why he did it, he replied that he wanted to make the Mass more interesting for the young people. He didn’t even know that that would invalidate the Mass. The bishop was pleased that I told him.
 
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maryjk:
During the school year we have a Sunday Mass at 9PM every week. But I live in a college town, so maybe that is why.

After reading these, I am very happy that most, if not all, of the Masses that I have attended have been abuse free. Or abuse free enough for me to really have to look for the problems.
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Hmmm … I would be seriously tempted to skip mass altogether and watch it on TV instead, mortal sin notwithstanding, if my only alternative was 9 or 10 pm on a Sunday night.

I’m sure my local parish would love the idea of doing a late-night Mass like that … NOT! 😛
 
Some of these have been really bad. I wonder, are we permitted to leave if it appears that the mass is being abused? Lets say for arguments sake that this is the last Sunday Mass in the area so no other way to fulfill the obligation. Although this is probably a question for the Apologists (who never answer my questions! 🙂 )
 
Servus Pio XII:
What are these “bowls of incense”? Have they never heard of a boat and thurible? A censer at least?

I am reminded instead of pagan worship (the paten actually was, before the Christians adopted it as communion plate, an incense holder). The normal pagan practise was to have incense in a bowl and to sort of walk and let it smoke upwards.

If I am not mistaken, the thurible is more of a Jewish custom. This is an honourable origin indeed.
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I have seen this twice during 18 years of singing in a cathedral choir. And, yes, I immediately thought of a Cecil B. deMille epic. Walk? Oh, no, the “liturgical” dancers held the bowls of incense straight armed out in front of them. They swayed from side to side, then dart forward and lift the bowls and “swirl” them around. Not to mention the poles with banners and ribbons. It was quite a while before I could pick my jaw up off the floor and sing.
 
Wow, the choreography of that one - holding the bowls out straight, dipping and swirling, straight out of Hollywood! Bet they gave out Oscars! There are no ratings for the most liturgically abused Mass - any abuse is still abuse.
 
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LilyM:
Hmmm … I would be seriously tempted to skip mass altogether and watch it on TV instead, mortal sin notwithstanding, if my only alternative was 9 or 10 pm on a Sunday night.

I’m sure my local parish would love the idea of doing a late-night Mass like that … NOT! 😛
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Stop the presses. That is not the only Mass.

There is one on Saturday evening at 5. On Sunday there is on at 8:00, one at 10:30. Then two in the evening on Sunday. One at 5 and one at 9.

For daily Mass, there are two. One at 8 and one at 12:10.

I see nothing wrong with having a Mass late on Sunday. It is a full Mass. I have been told that many times there is not enough seating and they have people standing. 👍 This Mass works.
 
While certainly not as bad as some here, I’ve seen many liturgical abuses, but this one took the prize. A visiting priest during the consecration, lifted up the Host and said, “see who you are and who you will become”.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think these words are acceptable. By the way he was the head of some ‘theological’ college.
 
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m134e5:
Why the happy face beside this thread? Do people enjoy talking about how bad things get in the Church? Personally, I think liturgical abuses are most unfortunate, and are nothing to be happy about.
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Hello m134e5 c-3-p-o whatchamacallit,

Your post cracked me up. It’s a good question. Thank you ever so . . .

All seriousness aside, Portland, OR, St. Clare parish, Father Dunkin (not real name). He was a gifted homilist, very engaging and passionate. And a wonderful sense of humor. We appreciated him then but we know better now.
  1. He “worked the crowd” ala Phil Donahue. Before Mass, he goes, “Is anybody here from out of town?! Okay, I’ll come down there!” Microphone in hand (cordless), he jogs up the aisle, speaks into mike, “Where you from?” Adroitly aims microphone at guest, who’s standing in the pew, “I brought my family here from England.” Father: “Oh, that’s WONderful, wonderful!” Looks around the church, “Do we have anyone else visiting here?” He did this most Sundays.
  2. He permitted women homilists: a nun, the pastoral associate, and a woman who was a teacher, I think . . . Girls and boys could wear anything: green hair, jeans, t-shirts with slogans, flip-flops - and these were just the Eucharistic Ministers!
  3. During a homily, Father Dunkin gave his personal reflection on the film, “Chocolat.” Alluded to film’s sensual overtones. Several months later at his retirement party after Mass, I made a big pot of hot cocoa and sprinkled in a healthy dose of cinammon. I served it with a big soup ladle into his mug. You should’ve seen the perplexed look on his face! Priceless!
  4. During a homily, he spent ten minutes shaming no one in particular, the congregation in general, for racist remarks made by a student, on a school day, to a 10-year-old who became so overcome with embarrassment (she and her family sitting behind us) she tried to disappear in her mother’s coat. At the climax of his message, Father Dunkin dramatically yelled, “If I ever blah blah blah . . it’s a God-DAMN injustice.”
This was the worst - and it occurred after Father Dunkin retired. Same parish, different priest, Father Suntan.

During a funeral for a long time parishioner and active lesbian, five or six women of the church - during Mass - positioned themselves in front of the dias, formed a circle, and held up a huge hand-thrown ceramic bowl, painted black. Saying a new age prayer, rocks were put into this bowl, followed by a grey dust that finished off the ceremony with a rising cloud of … grey dust. (The deceased was a friendly person and I liked her. But I am compelled to mention her lifestyle which, like the ceremony just described, when practiced openly in the Church as she did, is in defiance.)

Honestly, I informed the Archdiocesan Chancery. The response I got was, " ! ."

Oh, I also asked, “Why doesn’t the priest mention Hell, Satan, or sin?” The response I got was more elaborate than the first: “Because people will leave!”

Well, our family left St. Clare Parish in 2004. Thank you Catholic Answers and KBVM radio and EWTN!
 
Dolores - hope you have found a Catholic Church to attend Mass and you can get by. You are 100% right about thanking God for giving us EWTN and CA! I pray the worst is over but the clean up and restoration is a huge job. I feel helpless and then I remember - PRAY! Keep the Faith!
 
Call me dumb, but why are our Bishops and Cardinals allowing these abuses to continue - and why doesn’t Rome do something about them? No holy water in the fonts? I never heard of such a thing!
 
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brotherhrolf:
I have seen this twice during 18 years of singing in a cathedral choir. And, yes, I immediately thought of a Cecil B. deMille epic. Walk? Oh, no, the “liturgical” dancers held the bowls of incense straight armed out in front of them. They swayed from side to side, then dart forward and lift the bowls and “swirl” them around. Not to mention the poles with banners and ribbons. It was quite a while before I could pick my jaw up off the floor and sing.
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I’m picturing liturgical dancers trying to get their big break in Hollywood, their portfolios filled with snapshots and video of their Mass performances.

Thank God the only time I have to see liturgical dancing in my parish is when they put on a ‘live’ stations of the cross. Thankfully, our priest does not allow it during a Mass.
 
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