M
McatholicN
Guest
Could someone give me a good decription of lukewarmness? I know that lukewarmness is a mortal sin and I’d like to know if I’m committing it.
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B
broconsul
Guest
I can’t, but your priest probably can! 
I might say that if you’re worried about being lukewarm, you’re probably not. I could be wrong though!
I might say that if you’re worried about being lukewarm, you’re probably not. I could be wrong though!
T
the_Assyrian_1
Guest
dear Junior Member:
Read Revelation 3:14 - 22 the Seventh Church - Laodicea
They were Luke Warm, Jesus speaks to them, he says:
Read Revelation 3:14 - 22 the Seventh Church - Laodicea
They were Luke Warm, Jesus speaks to them, he says:
The paragraph continues, its a good read. You will know if you need help and if you are committing it when you read the word. You can get commentaries on it also… but its pretty straight forward…
F
FightingFat
Guest
Is it? If it is, I’ve never heard of it (although I love the quote from Revelation, above, and often ponder on it myself). I mean if I’m unsure how I feel about gerbils, I neither love them, nor hate them, is that a sin?
H
houston1
Guest
I like this question. I would like an answer to this as well.
E
Edward_H
Guest
I think it’s been said to be a creeping lack of desire to put love and effort into your interior life.
It can occur without one’s awareness. Often, perhaps most often, it starts in small ways: Distraction in Mass, unchecked. Hurried prayers. Prayers done with a lack of energy and love. Lengthening of time between confessions.
If you’re familiar with the “theory of the broken window” to explain urban blight, I think the analogy applies to our interior life.
Good book on it, and some practical tips is this one:
scepterpublishers.org/product/index.php?FULL=108
It can occur without one’s awareness. Often, perhaps most often, it starts in small ways: Distraction in Mass, unchecked. Hurried prayers. Prayers done with a lack of energy and love. Lengthening of time between confessions.
If you’re familiar with the “theory of the broken window” to explain urban blight, I think the analogy applies to our interior life.
Good book on it, and some practical tips is this one:
scepterpublishers.org/product/index.php?FULL=108
M
McatholicN
Guest
Would the examples you gave be mortal sin? Where is the line drawn as to mortal sin by lukewarmness.
E
Edward_H
Guest
I don’t know…doubt it, given the insidious, undetected aspect of it. A priest could/should answer that question.
I treat them as venial, but the devil can get us just as quick that way, no?
I treat them as venial, but the devil can get us just as quick that way, no?
Divine Mercy Novena:
Ninth Day
“Today bring to Me the Souls who have become Lukewarm, and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. These souls wound My Heart most painfully. My soul suffered the most dreadful loathing in the Garden of Olives because of lukewarm souls. They were the reason I cried out: ‘Father, take this cup away from Me, if it be Your will.’ For them, the last hope of salvation is to run to My mercy.”
Ninth Day
“Today bring to Me the Souls who have become Lukewarm, and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. These souls wound My Heart most painfully. My soul suffered the most dreadful loathing in the Garden of Olives because of lukewarm souls. They were the reason I cried out: ‘Father, take this cup away from Me, if it be Your will.’ For them, the last hope of salvation is to run to My mercy.”
Lukewarm soul. St. Jean-Marie-Baptiste Vianney
It is true that a Christian who lives in tepidity still regularly – in appearance at least – fulfils his duties. He will indeed get down on his knees every morning to say his prayers. He will go to the Sacraments every year at Easter and even several times during the course of the twelve months. But in all of this there will be such a distaste, so much slackness and so much indifference, so little preparation, so little change in his way of life, that it is easy to see that he is only fulfilling his duties from habit and routine … because this is a feast and he is in the habit of carrying them out at such a time. His Confessions and his Communions are not sacrilegious, if you like, but they are Confessions and Communions which bear no fruit – which, far from making him more perfect and more pleasing to God, only make him more unworthy. As for his prayers, God alone knows what – without, of course, any preparation – he makes of these.
In the morning it is not God who occupies his thoughts, nor the salvation of his poor soul; he is quite taken up with thoughts of work. His mind is so wrapped up in the things of earth that the thought of God has no place in it. He is thinking about what he is going to be doing during the day, where he will be sending his children and his various employees, in what way he will expedite his own work. To say his prayers, he gets down on his knees, undoubtedly, but he does not know what he wants to ask God, nor what he needs, nor even before whom he is kneeling. His careless demeanour shows this very clearly. It is a poor man indeed who, however miserable he is, wants nothing at all and loves his poverty. It is surely a desperately sick person who scorns doctors and remedies and clings to his infirmities.
You can see that this lukewarm soul has no difficulty, on the slightest pretext, in talking during the course of his prayers.
For no reason at all he will abandon them, partly at least, thinking that he will finish them in another moment. Does he want to offer his day to God, to say his Grace? He does all that, but often without thinking of the one who is addressed. He will not even stop working. If the possessor of the lukewarm soul is a man, he will turn his cap or his hat around in his hands as if to see whether it is good or bad, as though he had some idea of selling it. If it is a woman, she will say her prayers while slicing bread into her soup, or putting wood on the fire, or calling out to her children or maid. If you like, such distractions during prayer are not exactly deliberate. People would rather not have them, but because it is necessary to go to so much trouble and expend so much energy to get rid of them, they let them alone and allow them to come as they will.
The lukewarm Christian may not perhaps work on Sunday at tasks which seem to be forbidden to anyone who has even the slightest shred of religion, but doing some sewing, arranging something in the house, driving sheep to the fields during the times for Masses, on the pretext that there is not enough food to give them – all these things will be done without the slightest scruple, and such people will prefer to allow their souls and the souls of their employees to perish rather than endanger their animals. A man will busy himself getting out his tools and his carts and harrows and so on, for the next day; he will fill in a hole or fence a gap; he will cut various lengths of cords and ropes; he will carry out the churns and set them in order. What do you think about all this, my brethren? Is it not, alas, the simple truth? …
A lukewarm soul will go to Confession regularly, and even quite frequently. But what kind of Confessions are they? No preparation, no desire to correct faults, or, at the least, a desire so feeble and so small that the slightest difficulty will put a stop to it altogether. The Confessions of such a person are merely repetitions of old ones, which would be a happy state of affairs indeed if there were nothing to add to them. Twenty years ago he was accusing himself of the same things he confesses today, and if he goes to Confession for the next twenty years, he will say the same things. A lukewarm soul will not, if you like, commit the big sins. But some slander or back-biting, a lie, a feeling of hatred, of dislike, of jealousy, a slight touch of deceit or double-dealing – these count for nothing with it. If it is a woman and you do not pay her all the respect which she considers her due, she will, under the guise of pretending that God has been offended, make sure that you realise it; she could say more than that, of course, since it is she herself who has been offended. It is true that such a woman would not stop going to the Sacraments, but her dispositions are worthy of compassion.
It is true that a Christian who lives in tepidity still regularly – in appearance at least – fulfils his duties. He will indeed get down on his knees every morning to say his prayers. He will go to the Sacraments every year at Easter and even several times during the course of the twelve months. But in all of this there will be such a distaste, so much slackness and so much indifference, so little preparation, so little change in his way of life, that it is easy to see that he is only fulfilling his duties from habit and routine … because this is a feast and he is in the habit of carrying them out at such a time. His Confessions and his Communions are not sacrilegious, if you like, but they are Confessions and Communions which bear no fruit – which, far from making him more perfect and more pleasing to God, only make him more unworthy. As for his prayers, God alone knows what – without, of course, any preparation – he makes of these.
In the morning it is not God who occupies his thoughts, nor the salvation of his poor soul; he is quite taken up with thoughts of work. His mind is so wrapped up in the things of earth that the thought of God has no place in it. He is thinking about what he is going to be doing during the day, where he will be sending his children and his various employees, in what way he will expedite his own work. To say his prayers, he gets down on his knees, undoubtedly, but he does not know what he wants to ask God, nor what he needs, nor even before whom he is kneeling. His careless demeanour shows this very clearly. It is a poor man indeed who, however miserable he is, wants nothing at all and loves his poverty. It is surely a desperately sick person who scorns doctors and remedies and clings to his infirmities.
You can see that this lukewarm soul has no difficulty, on the slightest pretext, in talking during the course of his prayers.
For no reason at all he will abandon them, partly at least, thinking that he will finish them in another moment. Does he want to offer his day to God, to say his Grace? He does all that, but often without thinking of the one who is addressed. He will not even stop working. If the possessor of the lukewarm soul is a man, he will turn his cap or his hat around in his hands as if to see whether it is good or bad, as though he had some idea of selling it. If it is a woman, she will say her prayers while slicing bread into her soup, or putting wood on the fire, or calling out to her children or maid. If you like, such distractions during prayer are not exactly deliberate. People would rather not have them, but because it is necessary to go to so much trouble and expend so much energy to get rid of them, they let them alone and allow them to come as they will.
The lukewarm Christian may not perhaps work on Sunday at tasks which seem to be forbidden to anyone who has even the slightest shred of religion, but doing some sewing, arranging something in the house, driving sheep to the fields during the times for Masses, on the pretext that there is not enough food to give them – all these things will be done without the slightest scruple, and such people will prefer to allow their souls and the souls of their employees to perish rather than endanger their animals. A man will busy himself getting out his tools and his carts and harrows and so on, for the next day; he will fill in a hole or fence a gap; he will cut various lengths of cords and ropes; he will carry out the churns and set them in order. What do you think about all this, my brethren? Is it not, alas, the simple truth? …
A lukewarm soul will go to Confession regularly, and even quite frequently. But what kind of Confessions are they? No preparation, no desire to correct faults, or, at the least, a desire so feeble and so small that the slightest difficulty will put a stop to it altogether. The Confessions of such a person are merely repetitions of old ones, which would be a happy state of affairs indeed if there were nothing to add to them. Twenty years ago he was accusing himself of the same things he confesses today, and if he goes to Confession for the next twenty years, he will say the same things. A lukewarm soul will not, if you like, commit the big sins. But some slander or back-biting, a lie, a feeling of hatred, of dislike, of jealousy, a slight touch of deceit or double-dealing – these count for nothing with it. If it is a woman and you do not pay her all the respect which she considers her due, she will, under the guise of pretending that God has been offended, make sure that you realise it; she could say more than that, of course, since it is she herself who has been offended. It is true that such a woman would not stop going to the Sacraments, but her dispositions are worthy of compassion.
…continued…
On the day when she wants to receive her God, she spends part of the morning thinking of temporal matters. If it is a man, he will be thinking about his deals and his sales. If it is a married woman, she will be thinking about her household and her children. If it is a young girl, her thoughts will be on her clothes.
If it is a boy, he will be dreaming about passing pleasures and so on. The lukewarm soul shuts God up in an obscure and ugly kind of prison. Its possessor does not crucify Him, but God can find little joy or consolation in his heart. All his dispositions proclaim that his poor soul is struggling for the breath of life.
After having received Holy Communion, this person will hardly give another thought to God in all the days to follow. His manner of life tells us that he did not know the greatness of the happiness which had been his.
A lukewarm Christian thinks very little upon the state of his poor soul and almost never lets his mind run over the past. If the thought of making any effort to be better crosses his mind at all, he believes that once he has confessed his sins, he ought to be perfectly happy and at peace. He assists at Holy Mass very much as he would at any ordinary activity. He does not think at all seriously of what he is doing and finds no trouble in chatting about all sorts of things while on the way there. Possibly he will not give a single thought to the fact that he is about to participate in the greatest of all the gifts that God, all-powerful as He is, could give us. He does give some thought to the needs of his own soul, yes, but a very small and feeble amount of thought indeed. Frequently he will even present himself before the presence of God without having any idea of what he is going to ask of Him. He has few scruples in cutting out, on the least pretext, the Asperges and the prayers before Mass. During the course of the service, he does not want to go to sleep, of course, and he is even afraid that someone might see him, but he does not do himself any violence all the same. He does not want, of course, to have distractions during prayer or during the Holy Mass, yet when he should put up some little fight against them, he suffers them very patiently, considering the fact that he does not like them. Fast days are reduced to practically nothing, either by advancing the time of the main meal or, under the pretext that Heaven was never taken by famine, by making the collation so abundant that it amounts to a full meal. When he performs good or beneficial actions, his intentions are often very mixed – sometimes it is to please someone, sometimes it is out of compassion, and sometimes it is just to please the world. With such people everything that is not a really serious sin is good enough. They like doing good, being faithful, but they wish that it did not cost them anything or, at least, that it cost very little. They would like to visit the sick, indeed, but it would be more convenient if the sick would come to them. They have something to give away in alms, they know quite well that a certain person has need of help, but they wait until she comes to ask them instead of anticipating her, which would make the kindness so very much more meritorious. We will even say, my brethren, that the person who leads a lukewarm life does not fail to do plenty of good works, to frequent the Sacraments, to assist regularly at all church services, but in all of this one sees only a weak, languishing faith, hope which the slightest trial will upset, a love of God and of neighbour which is without warmth or pleasure. Everything that such a person does is not entirely lost, but it is very nearly so.
See, before God, my brethren, on what side you are. On the side of the sinners, who have abandoned everything and plunge themselves into sin without remorse? On the side of the just souls, who seek but God alone? Or are you of the number of these slack, tepid, and indifferent souls such as we have just been depicting for you? Down which road are you travelling?
Who can dare assure himself that he is neither a great sinner nor a tepid soul but that he is one of the elect? Alas, my brethren, how many seem to be good Christians in the eyes of the world who are really tepid souls in the eyes of God, Who knows our inmost hearts…
Let us ask God with all our hearts, if we are in this state, to give us the grace to get out of it, so that we may take the route that all the saints have taken and arrive at the happiness that they are enjoying. That is what I desire for you…
On the day when she wants to receive her God, she spends part of the morning thinking of temporal matters. If it is a man, he will be thinking about his deals and his sales. If it is a married woman, she will be thinking about her household and her children. If it is a young girl, her thoughts will be on her clothes.
If it is a boy, he will be dreaming about passing pleasures and so on. The lukewarm soul shuts God up in an obscure and ugly kind of prison. Its possessor does not crucify Him, but God can find little joy or consolation in his heart. All his dispositions proclaim that his poor soul is struggling for the breath of life.
After having received Holy Communion, this person will hardly give another thought to God in all the days to follow. His manner of life tells us that he did not know the greatness of the happiness which had been his.
A lukewarm Christian thinks very little upon the state of his poor soul and almost never lets his mind run over the past. If the thought of making any effort to be better crosses his mind at all, he believes that once he has confessed his sins, he ought to be perfectly happy and at peace. He assists at Holy Mass very much as he would at any ordinary activity. He does not think at all seriously of what he is doing and finds no trouble in chatting about all sorts of things while on the way there. Possibly he will not give a single thought to the fact that he is about to participate in the greatest of all the gifts that God, all-powerful as He is, could give us. He does give some thought to the needs of his own soul, yes, but a very small and feeble amount of thought indeed. Frequently he will even present himself before the presence of God without having any idea of what he is going to ask of Him. He has few scruples in cutting out, on the least pretext, the Asperges and the prayers before Mass. During the course of the service, he does not want to go to sleep, of course, and he is even afraid that someone might see him, but he does not do himself any violence all the same. He does not want, of course, to have distractions during prayer or during the Holy Mass, yet when he should put up some little fight against them, he suffers them very patiently, considering the fact that he does not like them. Fast days are reduced to practically nothing, either by advancing the time of the main meal or, under the pretext that Heaven was never taken by famine, by making the collation so abundant that it amounts to a full meal. When he performs good or beneficial actions, his intentions are often very mixed – sometimes it is to please someone, sometimes it is out of compassion, and sometimes it is just to please the world. With such people everything that is not a really serious sin is good enough. They like doing good, being faithful, but they wish that it did not cost them anything or, at least, that it cost very little. They would like to visit the sick, indeed, but it would be more convenient if the sick would come to them. They have something to give away in alms, they know quite well that a certain person has need of help, but they wait until she comes to ask them instead of anticipating her, which would make the kindness so very much more meritorious. We will even say, my brethren, that the person who leads a lukewarm life does not fail to do plenty of good works, to frequent the Sacraments, to assist regularly at all church services, but in all of this one sees only a weak, languishing faith, hope which the slightest trial will upset, a love of God and of neighbour which is without warmth or pleasure. Everything that such a person does is not entirely lost, but it is very nearly so.
See, before God, my brethren, on what side you are. On the side of the sinners, who have abandoned everything and plunge themselves into sin without remorse? On the side of the just souls, who seek but God alone? Or are you of the number of these slack, tepid, and indifferent souls such as we have just been depicting for you? Down which road are you travelling?
Who can dare assure himself that he is neither a great sinner nor a tepid soul but that he is one of the elect? Alas, my brethren, how many seem to be good Christians in the eyes of the world who are really tepid souls in the eyes of God, Who knows our inmost hearts…
Let us ask God with all our hearts, if we are in this state, to give us the grace to get out of it, so that we may take the route that all the saints have taken and arrive at the happiness that they are enjoying. That is what I desire for you…
S
spencer2
Guest
St Jean just explained the everyday devoted catholic. If we who practice our faith like this are considered lukewarm then I see why some saints say that only a few will be saved. It seems like everyone has to live an ascetic life to be able to be saved.
C
centurionguard
Guest
Failing to Love God above in all things leads to Lukewarmness.
Peace
Chris
M
Mr.Blank1.5
Guest
I’ll be honest, I don’t always make the most thorough examinations of conscience, I do get distracted at mass at times, I’m still hesitant at making the sign of the cross in public (outside of mass), etc. I’ve always though these were venial sins or imperfections.
Would I go to hell if I were to die without correcting these things? And here I was thinking that I was making progress by not going to confession as often since I thought I could better differentiate between mortal and venial sin. After reading St. Jean’s writings, I can’t help but wonder if it is possible to be on the path to damnation even though one thinks they are practicing their faith correctly for once
Would I go to hell if I were to die without correcting these things? And here I was thinking that I was making progress by not going to confession as often since I thought I could better differentiate between mortal and venial sin. After reading St. Jean’s writings, I can’t help but wonder if it is possible to be on the path to damnation even though one thinks they are practicing their faith correctly for once
S
spencer2
Guest
It’s hard to believe that the souls who try to live right are on the same path as the unremorseful sinners.
M
Mr.Blank1.5
Guest
To anyone reading, (although this is probably an obvious question)
how does one not be lukewarm?
how does one not be lukewarm?
M
Mr.Blank1.5
Guest
From reading the passage of the saint, is the key to place God first instead of the matters of the world?
I go through life offering the days, pains, pleasures, and what not to God every day. I know that I am not always sucessful, but I try. I have been trying to determine the venial sins that plague me the most, and have been trying to get rid of them.
Yet, after reading writings like these, I’m always left wondering if I am loving God with all of my heart, mind, and soul (you don’t even want to know how I feel after reading saints’ writings on how little will be saved). I’m always wondering if I spend too much time seeking self-gratification or leisure. I’m always wondering if I’m being slothful, not giving my all, or committing a sin.
How am I supposed to know if I am doing this whole Catholic life right (for lack of better words)?
I go through life offering the days, pains, pleasures, and what not to God every day. I know that I am not always sucessful, but I try. I have been trying to determine the venial sins that plague me the most, and have been trying to get rid of them.
Yet, after reading writings like these, I’m always left wondering if I am loving God with all of my heart, mind, and soul (you don’t even want to know how I feel after reading saints’ writings on how little will be saved). I’m always wondering if I spend too much time seeking self-gratification or leisure. I’m always wondering if I’m being slothful, not giving my all, or committing a sin.
How am I supposed to know if I am doing this whole Catholic life right (for lack of better words)?
B
Bookcat
Guest
lukewarmness is hesitation or negligence in responding to divine love; it can imply refusal to give oneself over to the prompting of charity.
Now just cause there is some lukewarmness…does not mean it is grave!!
And remember for a mortal sin one needs grave matter…full knowledge and complete consent.
I imagine there can be many degrees of such…
So for a mortal sin one would have to be gravely lukewarm! And done with full knowledge and deliberate consent…
Many of us struggle with various degrees of not responding as we should…this does not mean this is done in a grave way…
Ones confessor can help one…
Now just cause there is some lukewarmness…does not mean it is grave!!
And remember for a mortal sin one needs grave matter…full knowledge and complete consent.
I imagine there can be many degrees of such…
So for a mortal sin one would have to be gravely lukewarm! And done with full knowledge and deliberate consent…
Many of us struggle with various degrees of not responding as we should…this does not mean this is done in a grave way…
Ones confessor can help one…
B
Bookcat
Guest
Maybe something like this at Mass for example:
Hot: Sit in Mass thinking only of God like you really are there just to see Him.
Lukewarm: Sit in Mass thinking about football and other stuff, only being there because you feel you have to and not want to. Feeling happy that you have left afterwards that you can do something you want.
Cold: Not going to Mass because you don’t want to or don’t believe.
Prayers and life would be the same probably.
Hot: Sit in Mass thinking only of God like you really are there just to see Him.
Lukewarm: Sit in Mass thinking about football and other stuff, only being there because you feel you have to and not want to. Feeling happy that you have left afterwards that you can do something you want.
Cold: Not going to Mass because you don’t want to or don’t believe.
Prayers and life would be the same probably.
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