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grannymh
Guest
And the language of DNA gives instructions ?
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buffalo
Guest
It sure does.
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Think_About_It
Guest
No, but only because that’s not the method of understanding patterns in dirt and rocks. It wouldn’t take you very long to imagine the layers and organic/chemical happenings within dirt and rocks; how it is affected by the environment and how the environment affects it. What you’re looking at in DNA is chemical reactions. What I’m looking at in rock is chemical reactions. Language and symbols are what we use to make sense of it all and geology has its own set.
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buffalo
Guest
A language has a sender and a receiver. Symbolic relationships are of the mind, they do not exist in rocks. Unless you are claiming the rocks are alive.
The chemicals in rocks are transmitting and receiving codes?
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Think_About_It
Guest
Language has a sender when a person or being sends it. Language, in the case of DNA only acts as an analogy for how chemical reactions take place. I agree that symbols are of the mind. There are no symbols in the chemical world. Symbols are what we use to understand reactions.
Yes. The oxidation of of metals, for instance, combining iron, water, and oxygen makes rocks brittle and rusty. I’m not saying rocks have life; I’m saying that chemical reactions have taken place. Yes, these chemical reactions are different from DNA, but not in a way that you could claim authorship for those reactions on a being’s behalf. That would be foolishness.
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buffalo
Guest
Now, we move on to the decoding. A sender transmitting code to a receiver without the receiver having the key is meaningless.
DNA has all the necessary information for life.
DNA uses a 4 letter alphabet
In the human over several billion characters
DNA is the encoding and decoding mechanism
A printed message on paper is much more that just organic material and paper. It is a message. DNA in the same way is more that just chemicals. It represents something other than itself.
The message on the paper needs to be decoded by the reader to be understood. If the message reads: Walk 5 paces, turn left, walk 10 paces, etc… these are instructions.
There is no question that DNA acts an a sender, receiver and decoder of the instruction set for life.
DNA is front loaded with information.
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Think_About_It
Guest
Sure. Now link it to a designer.
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buffalo
Guest
I’ll go one better:
IDvolution - God breathed the DNA language into some basic kinds. The fantastic ability of DNA to adapt accounts for life’s diversity.
No saltational problems, no long ages needed, no against all the odds self assembly…
There - neatly packaged, simple and consistent with Catholic teaching.
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coolduude
Guest
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Zatzat
Guest
Except for one thing…
Which God did all of this and how do you know?
Just as you are certain that your God is responsible, there is another man who is just as certain that their very different God was responsible.
Just as you are certain say that you worship the one true God, another man is certain that his God is the one true God.
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buffalo
Guest
That is quite easy - the God with all the knowledge. The top God. The supreme being. The God with all the power. The one that knows all truth, the alpha and the omega.
You know the one I am talking about.
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Think_About_It
Guest
Exactly.
But more importantly, how do you figure a God did this? What is God? Why should I believe this account, Buffy?
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coolduude
Guest
Good point!
Here’s a link to a thread I made on this very topic:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=406455
enjoy!
Here’s a link to a thread I made on this very topic:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=406455
enjoy!
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grannymh
Guest
As far as I can tell, the human species sure did need a Designer to get it started.
Blessings,
granny
All human life is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.
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Think_About_It
Guest
Sounds like defeat to me
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Zatzat
Guest
I admit that I’m taken aback by your unwillingness or inability in being able to acknowledge that persons of other faiths, are just as convinced that their God is the true God and that their God, not the Christian God, is responsible for all of creation.
Not only do they believe this, they are certain of it.
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buffalo
Guest
I believe the age of information will help change this. In the past isolated communities did not allow the free exchange of information. Generations grew up with information that they were “certain” of. Today, anyone who desires can learn the truth. Look at these forums for example. People are learning, learning the truth. It wil take some time, but the mechanism now exists.I admit that I’m taken aback by your unwillingness or inability in being able to acknowledge that persons of other faiths, are just as convinced that their God is the true God and that their God, not the Christian God, is responsible for all of creation.
Not only do they believe this, they are certain of it.
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buffalo
Guest
Why believe anything? Because you have reason to believe it is true.
This is from the Catholic Catechism:
II. WAYS OF COMING TO KNOW GOD
31 Created in God’s image and called to know and love him, the person who seeks God discovers certain ways of coming to know him. These are also called proofs for the existence of God, not in the sense of proofs in the natural sciences, but rather in the sense of “converging and convincing arguments”, which allow us to attain certainty about the truth. These “ways” of approaching God from creation have a twofold point of departure: the physical world, and the human person.
[32](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/32.htm’)
The world: starting from movement, becoming, contingency, and the world’s order and beauty, one can come to a knowledge of God as the origin and the end of the universe.As St. Paul says of the Gentiles: For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.7 And St. Augustine issues this challenge: Question the beauty of the earth, question the beauty of the sea, question the beauty of the air distending and diffusing itself, question the beauty of the sky. . . question all these realities. All respond: “See, we are beautiful.” Their beauty is a profession [confessio]. These beauties are subject to change. Who made them if not the Beautiful One [Pulcher] who is not subject to change?8
[33](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/33.htm’) The human person: with his openness to truth and beauty, his sense of moral goodness, his freedom and the voice of his conscience, with his longings for the infinite and for happiness, man questions himself about God’s existence. In all this he discerns signs of his spiritual soul. The soul, the “seed of eternity we bear in ourselves, irreducible to the merely material”,9 can have its origin only in God.[34](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/34.htm’) **The world, and man, attest that they contain within themselves neither their first principle nor their final end, but rather that they participate in Being itself, which alone is without origin or end. Thus, in different ways, man can come to know that there exists a reality which is the first cause and final end of all things, a reality “that everyone calls God”.**10[35](javascript
penWindow(‘cr/35.htm’) Man’s faculties make him capable of coming to a knowledge of the existence of a personal God. But for man to be able to enter into real intimacy with him, God willed both to reveal himself to man and to give him the grace of being able to welcome this revelation in faith. The proofs of God’s existence, however, can predispose one to faith and help one to see that faith is not opposed to reason.
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Think_About_It
Guest
This is an elaborated version of what you’ve already been doing: inferring a designer by inferring design. You’ve now gone in a complete circle. Do you have anything more convincing?
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coolduude
Guest
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we cover this with the DNA argument?
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