The natural law is desirelessness. Resting in God is the fulfillment (and eradication) of all desires.i was reading a thread and the person asked when does desire become a sin. Is having sexual fantasies about someone a sin of lust. I don’t quite grasp it. They also mentioned that to desire someone for your spouse is also a sin. And what does it mean when someone says a desire or lust against the natural law?
With all due respect, Mike, your reply to the OP sheds little light on the question. In fact, the “desirelessness” of which you speak is something we cannot achieve until we are fully united with God in heaven. Even the most faithful saint has had to fight an ongoing battle against temptation. With faith and perseverance, one can strengthen one’s will against temptation, but weakened desires are desires nonetheless.The natural law is desirelessness. Resting in God is the fulfillment (and eradication) of all desires.
All of the other stuff you’re talking about is just an obstacle to realizing that.
Mike
what’s the difference between desiring your spouse and being sexually attracted to them? Don’t they go hand in hand?With all due respect, Mike, your reply to the OP sheds little light on the question. In fact, the “desirelessness” of which you speak is something we cannot achieve until we are fully united with God in heaven. Even the most faithful saint has had to fight an ongoing battle against temptation. With faith and perseverance, one can strengthen one’s will against temptation, but weakened desires are desires nonetheless.
OP, lust is a perversion of chastity. It is normal to feel attractions, and this is part of what leads us to choose the spouse we choose. Lust, however, is selfish; where love and chastity in a marriage involve giving of self, lust involves taking and using.
Fantasizing about someone – even one’s spouse – is acting on lustful urges. Sex is supposed to unite the spouses; fantasizing is just one person “getting off” to some degree. Desiring one’s spouse for the sake of “getting off” is sinful – being sexually attracted to him/her is not.
Lustful thoughts that pop into one’s mind out of habit are not sinful unless one freely chooses to dwell on or act on them. Eventually, one can reconditon one’s will (with the help of God’s grace) so that such thoughts do not pop in anymore – or, at least, do so infrequently and do not cause one as much temptation.
Peace,
Dante
Not if she’s your sister, probablywhat’s the difference between desiring your spouse and being sexually attracted to them? Don’t they go hand in hand?
Think about the words themselves: “I desire (want) my wife” is rife with selfishness. One should not want one’s wife the way one wants a beer or wants money; rather, one should want to love one’s spouse.what’s the difference between desiring your spouse and being sexually attracted to them? Don’t they go hand in hand?
But I also think it’s possible to over-parse specific words in this context. If my wife were to ask me “Do you desire me?” and I answered “No” in the spirit of the above quote, I’m not sure where that would leave me (except for me to suggest that she call Dante for an explanation, as I headed for the couch . . .)Think about the words themselves: “I desire (want) my wife” is rife with selfishness. One should not want one’s wife the way one wants a beer or wants money; rather, one should want to love one’s spouse.
Love is giving without regard for one’s own wants. To be sexually attracted to one’s wife is a normal biological response. Love, on the other hand, is an act of the will. That is what people forget when they run out on their spouses after “falling in love” with someone new.
The proper use of sex in a marriage is to manifest that total giving of self. If one “wants” one’s spouse, one is seeking to fulfill one’s own needs.
And I recommend you ignore responses like the one Mike provided.
Peace,
Dante
you could ask her in what way do you mean?But I also think it’s possible to over-parse specific words in this context. If my wife were to ask me “Do you desire me?” and I answered “No” in the spirit of the above quote, I’m not sure where that would leave me (except for me to suggest that she call Dante for an explanation, as I headed for the couch . . .)
I think there may be some confusion between lust and desire. I disagree that “desiring one’s wife” is sinful. I think that’s why we have the sexual drives that we have. Basically, you’re making it sound like if we have a desire for sex, that is bad. Here’s another take: Conversely (from a woman’s perspective), that is like saying “wanting emotional comfort” from one’s husband is also sinful.But I also think it’s possible to over-parse specific words in this context. If my wife were to ask me “Do you desire me?” and I answered “No” in the spirit of the above quote, I’m not sure where that would leave me (except for me to suggest that she call Dante for an explanation, as I headed for the couch . . .)
the reason the sexual fantasies are sinful is because it is a sin against nature, similar to masturbation, which is the more serious version of the same sin.i was reading a thread and the person asked when does desire become a sin. Is having sexual fantasies about someone a sin of lust. I don’t quite grasp it. They also mentioned that to desire someone for your spouse is also a sin. And what does it mean when someone says a desire or lust against the natural law?
my experience dictates that thinking about having sex with my wife does in fact lead to sin.( the church teaches anticipating marital relations is sinful.)what happens when these thoughts do not get fulfilled?frustration happens.i tell you thoughts will consume you.if i was married there’s no way i wouldn’d think about having sex with my wife. So really it becomes a sin if your sexual drive would lead you to commit adultery or if it completely consumes you. Anyone agree with what i think?
your last line is the most perfect way for a husband to be.I think there may be some confusion between lust and desire. I disagree that “desiring one’s wife” is sinful. I think that’s why we have the sexual drives that we have. Basically, you’re making it sound like if we have a desire for sex, that is bad. Here’s another take: Conversely (from a woman’s perspective), that is like saying “wanting emotional comfort” from one’s husband is also sinful.
In this sense, I would separate lust and desire into these 2 hypothetical situations:
lust - hanging onto the thought of the next time you will be with your wife
desire - while not fantasizing about it, being open and willing to engage your wife when the time is right
Can you cite some resources on this? I may have misunderstood the Catechism, but I haven’t anything taking it to “anticipation is wrong”the church teaches anticipating marital relations is sinful.
Yes, sexual fantasies are lust.i was reading a thread and the person asked when does desire become a sin. Is having sexual fantasies about someone a sin of lust. I don’t quite grasp it. They also mentioned that to desire someone for your spouse is also a sin. And what does it mean when someone says a desire or lust against the natural law?
Certainly not, at least it doesn’t have to be that way. I’m 23 and relatively close to getting married. While I have certainly had my share of lustful thoughts, if you follow the 6 steps for cleansing yourself from sexual sin, it is reasonable to think that couples (even as young as 19) can have sexual purity.i have no experience in this because i am not married. And i’m 19 so that’s my excuse for questioning the difference. I constantly think about women. Would it be safe to say that if two people my age we’re married, lust would be involved.