Desperate. Should I leave him?

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emsher

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I’m new here and I am so desperate for prayers and some perspective. Please forgive the length of this post (2 posts). I feel sick inside, lost and confused.

Got married three years ago. Have had three beautiful boys in three years. The youngest is 6 months, the middle child is 2 and the oldest is 3. Have struggled financially and emotionally since the beginning. I basically have been wondering off and on if my husband is abusive and ultimately if it’s worse for the boys if I stay with him than go. Things always seemed to resolve but not resolve and lately it’s becoming intolerable and I don’t know if it’s just me.

He’s been a student since we married. Worked as a soldier musician for the army for 8 years and when we met he had left the army and decided to pursue his degree in hopes of gaining a more fulfilling career than the army. He’s an extremely gifted flutist. Freakishly gifted. But has never got anywhere with it. Still finishing his Bachelor’s but part time (only one day a week this term) and then that should be it unless he takes post grad. I helped him a lot with the essays etc throughout. He only had a study benefit of $200 a week and I had a small parenting pension so we’ve always struggled and he always said he’d get some part time work. He never has. Hasn’t even looked. I had my oldest two boys only ten months apart but managed to be a part time tutor through three difficult pregnancies.

Sometimes we can’t pay rent. We are in debt with utilities. I have contacted so many charities. I try to keep us afloat. We have to borrow from parents but mine are so livid with him now that they can’t in conscience help us out if he doesn’t get work. But when we discuss it he just criticises their lack of charity and has no sense of obligation to do something. He just practices but mostly watches tv or plays games. He gets angry whenever I try to talk rationally about his behaviour and turns it back on me saying I’m too lazy to work full time (I was a teacher). But I want to be a mum. Is it unfair of me to expect him to do some work and me do some but I still get to raise the kids? He thinks it’s a double standard and wants to be the stay at home parent. But he can’t cope with out boys alone. He just watches shows that are too violent and although he does a great job being a father when he wants to I think his laziness really wins out most of the time. I ask him what he wants to do with himself, his life, his career. Does he really want to stay home by himself all day? I know he wouldn’t do the chores. He has given up on a performance career and that’s got him down and now has no idea what to do. Everything I suggest he has an excuse for not to do.

We are both Catholic. He was lapsed until baby #1 was born. He came back to the faith. It was amazing. But he hasn’t been catechised and has no grounding in prayer life. Sometimes he misses Mass. He doesn’t go to confession when he knows he should. I used to hope God was leading him to Himself through our marriage but now I wonder if I just made a huge mistake.

He is attached strongly to his mother’s apron strings. She is so intrusive and has basically enmeshed him all his life so that his development seems to be arrested at that of a four year old. He relies on her for all his life administration tasks. It’s embarrassing. Or he expects me to do them for him. He blames me for his mistakes and somehow everything that goes wrong turns out to be my fault. I don’t think he has ever had success in his relationships. He once told me he’d had 16 girlfriends but that none of them worked out because they were all b****es.

Having three babies so quickly has been hard. There have been times he has gotten angry. So many times he loses it over something stupid and says awful things like “you’re just pathetic! Pathetic!” If I make a mistake in directions while driving. The. He drives aggressively and carries on and later forgets he said anything hurtful. Or I knock over his chips and he carries on and on, asking, “Why would you do something like that!?” Or tonight: I accidentally pulled the computer plug from the wall when trying to retrieve my phone charger and he carries on calling me a liar etc etc. Too many similar things to recount but that’s the general idea. He hit me once. I was 4 months pregnant and was having an hormonal “tantrum”- totally annoying and inappropriate and I should’ve stopped but I didn’t expect him to come think me in the back and put me in an aikido hold. I cried and cried and thought perhaps I should leave. He said sorry but it was like he was sorry I “made him do it.”

I should mention I’ve been seeing a psychiatrist/therapist for some time due to PND and recounted all this to him. He was helpful in helping me manage and keep the family in tact but lately I’ve grown frustrated with his approach. When it told him my DH hit me he said, “Well why would you tickle a tiger?” And when I said, “C’mon, I’m four months pregnant,” he said to get off my high horse. He’s been advising me to just act like a single mum and not expect anything from DH because he’s obviously unable to give it and complains when asked. He thinks a fairly useless, mildly harmful dad is far better than no dad.
 
Last Christmas DH struck our then 1-year old in the face and knocked him to the floor because he wouldn’t stop crying. But he was tired and cranky. DH stopped me going to him. Everyone ended up crying. It was awful. I was really ready to leave then. I spoke to a priest (good, solid Latin Mass priest) and to my shock was advised to leave and apply for an annulment. He said “You’d most likely get an annulment” when I told him the background. As we were going to my mother’s for Christmas (she lives far away) he and my psychiatrist suggested I somehow stay with the kids and orchestrate for DH to get back on the plane to go home alone. But I couldn’t do it. Before we left, DH saw my psychiatrist, who told him that kind of “discipline” has no good results with kids and that he can’t be a tyrant. DH said he was not a tyrant. He literally had no insight into why hitting our boy like that was wrong. But after calling the psych he said things sounded great and that he was confident we could come back together and have a happy life together.

And we did come back together and DH came to sessions and we really had no troubles. He came for a month or two and then decided he didn’t need to come anymore because I was the one who needed therapy and the sessions were just about blaming him anyway. In truth they weren’t though. Whether it was a tactical thing on the part of my psych or not, we really focused the sessions on how to live with a crazy wife like me.

I worked on myself. But I haven’t really ever spoken directly about how desperate I am now to my husband. He doesn’t listen. And he can’t be reasonable sometimes. I’ve started standing up and saying I won’t be responsible for things like paying his fines even though he tells me he won’t do it and then we’ll all suffer. I figured I’ve got nothing to lose now. I have to stand up and if that forces his hand to lose it then I’ll go. But times like tonight I still try and appeal to the reasonable creature inside him and hope we can actually grow through things. Tonight the boys were tired and whinging and not eating dinner. So DH banged his hand several times loudly on the table and shouted “EAT!” They started crying and he tried forcing pasta into the oldest boy’s mouth. Then he imitated their crying loudly back at them and then in my ear… I mean what is that? Is he two years old? Then went and shut himself with his dinner in the TV room while I picked up the pieces. I told him calmly that that wasn’t the best way to deal with it. I was hoping that by finally not caving out of fear of getting him into a big fight in front of the boys, and standing up and putting boundaries in place that he might change. But just today I realised that what I thought was change may actually just be him trying to get into my good graces again so that things don’t change.

Last week I was so mad at my psych. I told him things were slipping and the whole session he just accused me of nit picking and said that there were plenty worse than my husband out there. I said I just didn’t know how to take it anymore and he said I was no where near the point where one might consider a separation. He said i just have to deny DH sex. I reminded him of what happened when DH hit our boy in the face and he just said “Why do you keep harping on about something that happened 6 months ago?” So I left in tears. Don’t think I’ll go back to him. Not helpful. I’m going to see Father day after tomorrow to talk again.

I’m terrified of leaving. I’m terrified that if I stay my kids will grow up dysfunctional. I hate that I didn’t leave last Christmas. But then I doubted it was as bad as I thought. I still doubt. The boys seem to love him most of the time. Am I in denial or am I looking for ways out because I don’t want to work hard?
 
I am so sorry for your situation. Musicians can be a different breed. Your husband reminds me of someone who behaves in almost exactly the same way, but he is a drummer. His wife divorced him when she caught him having an affair (not suggesting you should divorce).

One thing about this guy is that he never changed. Well into his 40’s he spends all of his time playing games and living off his parents’ wealth. But he is extremely charming and talented as a musician. I wouldn’t expect your husband to change either.

It seems to me that you are going to have to go back to work in any scenario. If you stay in the relationship someone is going to have to earn a living. And if you leave you will need to go back to work also. I agree that is often preferable for Mom to stay home with the kids, but that doesn’t seem feasible for you.

Edit: just saw your second post and your husband sounds dangerously abusive. I can’t believe anyone would hit a 1 year old. I think you need to get away from him to protect your children - at least a temporary separation
 
Last Christmas DH struck our then 1-year old in the face and knocked him to the floor because he wouldn’t stop crying.
And… we’re done. Yes. Yes you should leave. And have him arrested. Struck a one-year old in the face hard enough to literally knock him to the floor? I have a one-year-old daughter right now and I’d never think to lift a finger towards her if she was crying.

I’ve spanked my older two kids… not hard enough to actually hurt. And not until they were old enough to understand.

What you are describing is abusive, violent and criminal behavior.
I spoke to a priest (good, solid Latin Mass priest) and to my shock was advised to leave and apply for an annulment. He said “You’d most likely get an annulment” when I told him the background.
Sage advice indeed.
And we did come back together and DH came to sessions and we really had no troubles. He came for a month or two and then decided he didn’t need to come anymore because I was the one who needed therapy and the sessions were just about blaming him anyway. In truth they weren’t though. Whether it was a tactical thing on the part of my psych or not, we really focused the sessions on how to live with a crazy wife like me.
Oh right, because the problem is always you, right? You know why you think that? Because he’s an abuser and that’s what abusers do. They blame everyone else and eventually compel them to believe in their worldview. It’s absolutely insane and evil.
I’m terrified of leaving. I’m terrified that if I stay my kids will grow up dysfunctional. I hate that I didn’t leave last Christmas. But then I doubted it was as bad as I thought. I still doubt. The boys seem to love him most of the time. Am I in denial or am I looking for ways out because I don’t want to work hard?
I’m sure it’s a scary thought. But you seem to have a decent support system out there. Your priest gave you good advice. You should follow it.

Marriage is hard work indeed. Sometimes there are fights that are worth having and disagreements that you have to hash out. But that necessitates that the marriage include two people who are sane. That’s not the case here. You have one side, you, who is trying to be a normal person. Then the other side, your husband, who is a violent child abuser and a wife beater. Plain and simple. He has struck a TODDLER and his own wife. That makes him a child abuser and a wife beater.

If anyone else told you this story about her marriage, would you say “oh keep trying honey” or would you say “get out before he kills you?”
 
I second what Groo and The Bucket said. This man is not safe for you or your children. It’s not easy being a single parent (I’m a single mother myself) but it’s better to grow up in a single household than one where there is an abusive parent. This situation doesn’t look promising at all. I’ll be praying for you.
 
Leave. For your boys’ safety, and for your own, leave.

You don’t have to commit to a divorce at this time, but you need to get your children out of this dangerous situation.

Your husband clearly needs help. Maybe a forced separation will help him realize this; maybe not. Either way, you have a responsibility to those boys to raise them in a physically and emotionally safe environment. Right now you have neither.
 
emsher, seriously, take it from a guy who actually was psychologically abusive. I did it. I hurt my wife emotionally and spiritually because I was ashamed of a pornography addiction. But I never once lifted my hand towards her or my children.

My behavior was shameful and evil enough to more than justify her temporary separation. And it never rose to the level of any physicality whatsoever. The rest of what you’re talking about, however, sounds pretty familiar unfortunately. Blaming others for my problems. Going into a rage for no reason. Acting passive aggressive and also, well, aggressive aggressive.

I was mortally sick with sin to be sure. I infected my household with that sin and caused damage that my wife is still dealing with two years later.

But again, it never once got physical. No grabbing, no hitting, no nothing. I was scary and evil enough with just yelling and slamming a door now and then thank you very much. I was abusive enough without it rising to the level of criminality. You, however, are describing not just a spiritually and emotionally degrading situation, but a physically dangerous one.

Child abuse. Spousal abuse. It’s real and it’s happening in your family.
 
I agree with the other members…LEAVE. I don’t believe he will change unless he receives mercy, grace and wisdom from our Lord.

Your children will start to remember their childhood at about age 5 or 6 and I am sure you want them to have good, warm memories of their childhood. Hitting a 1 year old is sick!

However, before you leave ask him to join you in a face to face meeting with your Pastor. Don’t waste your money on a psychiatrist. You will be amazed how much good, spiritual direction your pastor can and will give you. If he refuses to see your Pastor…well it says a lot about his own soul and character.

Only our Lord can change your situation and I say this without hesitation.

I will pray for you, your children and your husband and that you take my advise.

Be blessed
 
Leave. For your boys’ safety, and for your own, leave.

You don’t have to commit to a divorce at this time, but you need to get your children out of this dangerous situation.

Your husband clearly needs help. Maybe a forced separation will help him realize this; maybe not. Either way, you have a responsibility to those boys to raise them in a physically and emotionally safe environment. Right now you have neither.
This. If there’s physical abuse, especially towards young children who are so easily damaged, then there’s no question.

I’m not a huge Dr Phil fan but this is a good guide I think drphil.com/articles/article/543
 
Also, I just realised you live in the same city I do.

Here are some other links that might help

dvrcv.org.au/

wdvcs.org.au/ (this one has a fast exit button so you can close the window quickly)

wire.org.au/information-resources/violence/?gclid=CIqw6r-8l74CFVYIvAodTx4AGA

thelookout.org.au//resources/survivors-friends-family

There’s community legal centres as well, some of which do intervention order work at the Magistrates Courts fclc.org.au/find_a_clc.php

Sorry to hear that you and your children are suffering 😦
 
Thank you everyone so much for your time and attention. I believe I know you are all correct. It breaks me up inside and I am so anxious but I will do it. I will see Father on Thursday and talk about a plan. He offered some community support last time I saw him. I am in the process of separating our bank accounts etc now.

I’ve felt so cloistered with one-sided advice from my psych who believes it’s always best to keep the family together for the kids’ sake. And DH’s unbelievable mother - even when I told her about the hitting she pestered me to stay with him, saying he’d kill himself if I left him and that she stayed with her husband though she didn’t want to for the sake of the family blah blah. I always thought she was wrong in that choice.

So you think once it’s happened (the hitting), you can’t take the chance it won’t happen again? Like my psych seems to think its irrelevant now and there’s no reason to be afraid to keep together… It’s so weird. When it happened I thought, “that’s it- it’s over” and then later I thought, “no it’s ok. It wasn’t too bad and it won’t happen again and if it does, then I’ll go.” Like I need it to happen again to be sure… Oh man.

You’re totally right, Bucket. If someone else told me this story I wouldn’t say “keep trying honey.” But when it’s me I’m frozen in fear of breaking up the family. I need to be in that moment of certainty to go- but can’t afford to wait around for it. It’s not fair to my kids to risk that for them! I’m so mad at myself for believing my psych and mother in law against my own convictions. I wish I’d joined the CAF back then to hear true advice like I am now.

Please please pray for me. I can’t do this without prayer, without God. I’m so scared. Please pray I can have the strength to get through this. Please pray.

Is there any way I can delete this thread in case he finds it somehow?
 
“He blames me for his mistakes and somehow everything that goes wrong turns out to be my fault. I don’t think he has ever had success in his relationships. He once told me he’d had 16 girlfriends but that none of them worked out because they were all b****es.”

That doesn’t sound like he has the sort of self-insight necessary for putting together your relationship. 16 bad girlfriends in a row?

“The boys seem to love him most of the time.”

Of course they love him–he’s their dad. He could beat them every day, and they’d still love him.

You’re going to have to leave, and the sooner the better. How would you feel if he permanently harmed one of your children? It could happen any day. Do not leave him alone with the children for a minute until you manage to leave.

You will have to earn a living, but don’t for a minute consider leaving your husband at home with the kids.

If you make any attempts at reconciliation (and I can’t really encourage that idea), it should be while living under separate roofs. He should at minimum demonstrate that he is willing and able to work full-time, develop a track record of supporting his kids financially, and that demonstrate that he accepts the fact that he has done wrong. But, as I said, I would not really encourage that idea–he has no substantial track record of success as a husband or father and would almost certainly relapse.

Also, read “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft.

And dump this psychiatrist. He’s committing malpractice.
 
emsher, seriously, take it from a guy who actually was psychologically abusive. I did it. I hurt my wife emotionally and spiritually because I was ashamed of a pornography addiction. But I never once lifted my hand towards her or my children.

Bucket, DH does have a problem I think with porn. I don’t know to what extent. I know he’s had a problem with masturbation since a young teen. I think he did it to relieve the **** he grew up with. And now he does find abstaining difficult as we are obviously using NFP.
 
You have a lot going on. You married someone that is still in school and doesn’t have stable employment. On top of that, you both have 3 babies in three years of marriage which is going to be stressful enough for any marriage let alone a very new one with one at home having babies and the other not in a full time stable job. The financial problems are also very burdensome. Now he is stress out as much as you and he is hitting the kids or you. If you do leave him, how are you realistically going to support yourselves and the babies? I am not sure what services are available in Australia but I would probably try to contact a crisis abuse hot line or center as at lease you have a place to stay to stop the cycle of abuse. Then you both need to get into some serious marital and financial counseling to try and put this all back together. From what you describe, it sounds like both of you married too young and have not given yourselves enough time to find stable jobs, finish school before getting married and having babies close together right away. There are serious major stresses here in the marriage that if one of you step back and then try to take steps with proper help to put back together. The problem with divorce is that you have 3 very small children here and I don’t think you have a way to support yourself and them at the same time. I also hope that both of you could attend a Retroveau weekend which is the Catholic marriage encounter for seriously troubled marriages.
 
I’m new here and I am so desperate for prayers and some perspective. Please forgive the length of this post (2 posts). I feel sick inside, lost and confused.

Got married three years ago. Have had three beautiful boys in three years. The youngest is 6 months, the middle child is 2 and the oldest is 3. Have struggled financially and emotionally since the beginning. I basically have been wondering off and on if my husband is abusive and ultimately if it’s worse for the boys if I stay with him than go. Things always seemed to resolve but not resolve and lately it’s becoming intolerable and I don’t know if it’s just me.

He’s been a student since we married. Worked as a soldier musician for the army for 8 years and when we met he had left the army and decided to pursue his degree in hopes of gaining a more fulfilling career than the army. He’s an extremely gifted flutist. Freakishly gifted. But has never got anywhere with it. Still finishing his Bachelor’s but part time (only one day a week this term) and then that should be it unless he takes post grad. I helped him a lot with the essays etc throughout. He only had a study benefit of $200 a week and I had a small parenting pension so we’ve always struggled and he always said he’d get some part time work. He never has. Hasn’t even looked. I had my oldest two boys only ten months apart but managed to be a part time tutor through three difficult pregnancies.

Sometimes we can’t pay rent. We are in debt with utilities. I have contacted so many charities. I try to keep us afloat. We have to borrow from parents but mine are so livid with him now that they can’t in conscience help us out if he doesn’t get work. But when we discuss it he just criticises their lack of charity and has no sense of obligation to do something. He just practices but mostly watches tv or plays games. He gets angry whenever I try to talk rationally about his behaviour and turns it back on me saying I’m too lazy to work full time (I was a teacher). But I want to be a mum. Is it unfair of me to expect him to do some work and me do some but I still get to raise the kids? He thinks it’s a double standard and wants to be the stay at home parent. But he can’t cope with out boys alone. He just watches shows that are too violent and although he does a great job being a father when he wants to I think his laziness really wins out most of the time. I ask him what he wants to do with himself, his life, his career. Does he really want to stay home by himself all day? I know he wouldn’t do the chores. He has given up on a performance career and that’s got him down and now has no idea what to do. Everything I suggest he has an excuse for not to do.

We are both Catholic. He was lapsed until baby #1 was born. He came back to the faith. It was amazing. But he hasn’t been catechised and has no grounding in prayer life. Sometimes he misses Mass. He doesn’t go to confession when he knows he should. I used to hope God was leading him to Himself through our marriage but now I wonder if I just made a huge mistake.

He is attached strongly to his mother’s apron strings. She is so intrusive and has basically enmeshed him all his life so that his development seems to be arrested at that of a four year old. He relies on her for all his life administration tasks. It’s embarrassing. Or he expects me to do them for him. He blames me for his mistakes and somehow everything that goes wrong turns out to be my fault. I don’t think he has ever had success in his relationships. He once told me he’d had 16 girlfriends but that none of them worked out because they were all b****es.

Having three babies so quickly has been hard. There have been times he has gotten angry. So many times he loses it over something stupid and says awful things like “you’re just pathetic! Pathetic!” If I make a mistake in directions while driving. The. He drives aggressively and carries on and later forgets he said anything hurtful. Or I knock over his chips and he carries on and on, asking, “Why would you do something like that!?” Or tonight: I accidentally pulled the computer plug from the wall when trying to retrieve my phone charger and he carries on calling me a liar etc etc. Too many similar things to recount but that’s the general idea. He hit me once. I was 4 months pregnant and was having an hormonal “tantrum”- totally annoying and inappropriate and I should’ve stopped but I didn’t expect him to come think me in the back and put me in an aikido hold. I cried and cried and thought perhaps I should leave. He said sorry but it was like he was sorry I “made him do it.”

I should mention I’ve been seeing a psychiatrist/therapist for some time due to PND and recounted all this to him. He was helpful in helping me manage and keep the family in tact but lately I’ve grown frustrated with his approach. When it told him my DH hit me he said, “Well why would you tickle a tiger?” And when I said, “C’mon, I’m four months pregnant,” he said to get off my high horse. He’s been advising me to just act like a single mum and not expect anything from DH because he’s obviously unable to give it and complains when asked. He thinks a fairly useless, mildly harmful dad is far better than no dad.
Some of us, it seems, are more inclined to make poor choices because we don’t value ourselves, are in denial, ignore huge, i mean HUGE warning signs because fantasy feels so much better than reality, have unrealistic expectations (he’s an immature, selfish, undecided son of a gun, but he’ll change etc). Try and make better choices from now on. You could even start today and stop calling your husband DH. “My DH hit me”. If you can, try to grow inside, value yourself, and become stronger. I know many of us don’t have the best of cards to play, but i’m sure if you put your mind to it, you can do better with the hand you’ve been given.
 
I am so very sorry that you are going through this. 😦

I think your instincts are screaming at you and you need to listen to them. Yes, this is abuse and honestly, he sounds very unstable. Remember that your primary responsibility is the safety and well-being of your children, even before saving your marriage. They are not safe in this situation.

And PLEASE, find another therapist. Please. I mean, really? I think your therapist is as much of a problem as your unstable husband. Please find another one.

And secondly, I wouldn’t mess with any bank accounts until you get legal advice. You don’t want to get yourself in trouble so just be careful with the legalities of leaving.

Sending great big internet hugs. YOU CAN DO THIS.
 
Is there any way I can delete this thread in case he finds it somehow?
You will need to contact a moderator to ask about that. Make sure you clear the history out on your computer.
 
Mason doggy do you know how I can stop the email notifications when someone posts because he sometimes checks my emails on my phone?
 
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