Desperate. Should I leave him?

[Marysann]

NFPwife, I would look at it this way, and I am a former child welfare caseworker. After the first incident of her husband striking a child, I suppose that she might think that he had just lost his cool. After the second incident or something as sever as her husband trying to force food down a child’s throat, she needs to remove the children from his presence. If she doesn’t protect the children by removing them, she will be considered an accessory to the abuse. Since she can’t predict when he is going to go off, she has the responsibility to get them out of harms’ way. Someone is going to report them to the authorities, it is just a matter of time. A judge wouldn’t have much sympathy for her. He would see the situation as one of an abusiive father and a weak mother who cared more about her husband than her innocent little children. I hate to be so blunt and sound so unsympathetic, but that is the way it is. This little family need our prayers.

 

[haljoseph]

Careful, she didn’t say that, she quoted me as saying that. Her quote got messed up when she deleted the end-quote tag by accident, and didn’t render as a quote of my post.

I realized that after it was submitted. Sorry.

 

[emsher]

Dear friends who have posted in my thread,
A little update.
Firstly, thank you so much for your prayers and advice. I am still overcome by the concern and attention I’ve been offered.

I saw my priest again yesterday. He was so supportive. He said “no one can make the decision for you but I can tell you that you can separate in good conscience and it is undoubtedly the only thing you can do to salvage your marriage if it is able to be a good marriage.” Also that staying would create an awful future for me and my children. He believes my husband may be completely unable to take on his role as husband and father and is disgusted at his behaviour and attitudes. Talking about practicalities he suggested I go home to my mother interstate. But that’s not very workable as she lives in an isolated semi-constructed house that can only be accessed by 4wd on too a banana plantation and she works full time. She also lives with a man not her husband (divorced) but I don’t suppose that the kids would understand that. I mean it might work as a temporary thing until I could get settled. My mum is so wonderfully supportive but she does work full time. Another idea is to go to a shelter or apply for government housing here in my city so husband doesn’t accuse my of kidnapping the kids or anything.

Also I told my psychiatrist I am not seeing him anymore and my very supportive mental health nurse is helping me find another. She is also loaning me a spare car so I can get away.

To answer a few questions, PND is post-natal depression (same as PPD). But I also have considered my husband to be narcissistic and have NPD. He seems to fit the bill and that explains why it’s so hard to get through to him common, normal ways of how people operate. It is entrenched and his mother has done a great deal of damage.

I also understand the perspective offered by a recent poster about my own chances of being perceived by authorities as failing to protect my children. I would risk having them taken away from me. And the only thing I could offer in my defence would be the guidance of my psychiatrist at the time. Yes, I have been weak and confused. I have not known what to do (or rather, I think I have known but doubted based on the advice I was given by my psychiatrist.)

So at this point I’m praying for strength and guidance and God’s providence in my steps to leave. I’ve got the files etc packed and need to hear back from a social service agency.

Someone was right about doubting or not knowing if things were a “one-off” incident. I went through that. Even to the point of thinking, “I need something to happen again to wake me up to the truth,” but I know the very fact I think that shows I’m stuck in abuse. I can’t tell you all how helpful your feedback has been. I showed this while thread to my mental health nurse and just said, “Wow. I wanted perspective and here it is.” She thought it was excellent.

Husband and I just had an argument on the way home in the car today. He’s determined to think his masturbation is not sinful. Seems he once tried to beat it but now is arguing it is natural and resented a priest asking him “how many times” and stating he had committed mortal sin. Like “how dare the priest treat me like that” kind of attitude. I was hoping he had improved. Anyway shows his mentality.

Please continue your prayers. I am so grateful to you all.

 

[masondoggy]

Lots or prayers for you and your kids as you proceed.

Make sure you talk to an attorney first before you do anything to make sure you take the right steps to legally protect your children, especially if you decide to go to your moms. You definitely don’t want to be accused of kidnapping his kids in court, you could wind up with problems you don’t need. Are there any services in your area for abused women? Here we have battered women’s shelters that will work with women as they leave get them help with the legal side of it.

 

[Xantippe]

masondoggy said:

“Make sure you talk to an attorney first before you do anything to make sure you take the right steps to legally protect your children, especially if you decide to go to your moms.”

Yes!

Get a lawyer’s advice before doing anything.

Also, at your kids’ age, grandma’s “friend” is not a big deal.

 

[AliR14]

You are in my continued prayers.

 

[emsher]

masondoggy said:

“Make sure you talk to an attorney first before you do anything to make sure you take the right steps to legally protect your children, especially if you decide to go to your moms.”

Yes!

Get a lawyer’s advice before doing anything.

Also, at your kids’ age, grandma’s “friend” is not a big deal.

Thank you both. I have no money for a lawyer but surely there’d be a free community legal service linked with the battered women’s shelter so I will make sure I ask about that too. I’ve been wondering about what I’m allowed to take and all the legalities so I will get advice. Hopefully I can speak to them on Monday.

 

[emsher]

You are in my continued prayers.

THANK YOU! Dear AliR14. Thank you so much.

 

[emsher]

Immediately get yourself a copy of the book, ‘Why does he Do That? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men’ by Lundy Bancroft. Hide it where your husband will NOT find it.

I can’t make the decision for you about whether you should leave. Divorce is very, very difficult - especially with an abusive man. But if staying is dangerous, you need to go. Read the book - it will help you decide what you should do - and help you formulate an exit plan.

Oh, and pray to St. Rita for intercession!

Thank you so much for this recommendation. I read the author’s book, “Should I stay or should I go?” and I can’t tell you how much strength and insight I’ve gained. I have formulated an exit plan safely and am in touch with the local domestic violence support service and now have options in place and supports to leave at the right time. I’ve packed all my important things and feel so much better about leaving than I did a few weeks ago when I was so confused. I can see now how my husband thinks and how it’s not actually going to change while we are still together. I’ve also come to accept that leaving is the right thing. For safety reasons we are aiming to make it to the end of the month when he’s out and then if the police need to be involved earlier I have that option too. Just waiting on legal advice about travelling interstate with the kids.

But this book and his other two books are a God send. Especially explaining the traumatic bond and cycle of abuse.

Thank you for your prayers everyone. I’m growing much stronger and more convinced and I know it’s all because of you at this forum. When I posted I was so confused. Now I can see clearly. Please keep praying for me as I tackle the move away with my little boys.

 

[Xantippe]

Best wishes!

 

[lily22]

He is attached strongly to his mother’s apron strings. She is so intrusive and has basically enmeshed him all his life so that his development seems to be arrested at that of a four year old. He relies on her for all his life administration tasks. It’s embarrassing. Or he expects me to do them for him. He blames me for his mistakes and somehow everything that goes wrong turns out to be my fault. I don’t think he has ever had success in his relationships. He once told me he’d had 16 girlfriends but that none of them worked out because they were all b***es. *

This is WHY all this stuff above is happening. His mom high-jacked his life!!! This will never change. Take the babies and get out. File with an attorney. You will be fighting his mother, not him, in court. So be prepared for her to show up and slander you. She wants the kids. It’s about control more than love.

Don’t tell him you are divorcing until you file and get the kids out and have a lawyer. OR else, the mom will get her nose in there and start lying to your ex to polarize him, make him confused/etc. That’s why he thinks all girls are “bitches” because his mom won’t let him grow up. The mother is jealous of you!!!

Anyway, here’s what to do:

1. get high powered-attorney
   2.file divorce paperwork
2. prepare for escape
3. move out in a safe place with the kids
   4.serve paperwork next day or same day with process server or hand it to him, but expect him to act violently and/or run off with a kid/etc. you may want to record his reaction if it’s violent to show the judge he can’t control himself.

claim in the paperwork YOU are the full-time custodian. VERY IMPORTANT
THE REASON HE DOESN’T WORK IS THE GRANDMA WANTS THE KIDS AND SHE KNOWS, IF HE DOESN’T WORK, YOU WILL HAVE TO AND SHE WILL GET THE KIDS IN COURT AND YOU WILL BE PAYING HER CHILD SUPPORT TO RAISE THEM FOR YOU

she’s a malicious person… it’s all a game…

Anyway, so moving out is very important because that way, the judge can see you are serious and want nothing to do with this loser.

OK, now that you are moved out with the kids, prepare for the worst. The dad won’t work. The case may go on a year. You may not be able to work very much in order to show that you are spending the most amount of time possible with the children.

The grandma will do everything possible to derail you out of jealousy.

If you have any witnesses of abuse, round them up. If you have a way to get him to confess or state he’s been a jerk to you, that can help. Apology letter/etc. If you can, ask your ex the timeline about all of his ex’s and who they are and “where” he was when he dated them, then secretly write them down and google them and make a list to show to the judge this guy can’t commit and how is he going to commit to his kids? Also, these ladies are your best friends in court. They may have gone through the same thing and will testify, so find out immediately who they ALL are. first last name, time he dated them, and location. ALL SECRET so he doesn’t know you are doing it like that. Just ask about his dating life and maybe he will open up about it…

OK, good luck

Source:
personal experience

 

[emsher]

she’s a malicious person… it’s all a game…

They may have gone through the same thing and will testify, so find out immediately who they ALL are. first last name, time he dated them, and location. ALL SECRET so he doesn’t know you are doing it like that. Just ask about his dating life and maybe he will open up *

Hey lily22,

Thank you! You sound like you know my mother-in-law well! I had not even thought of those things but your are absolutely right. She WILL be the one to turn up in court and slander me. She already thinks I’m the reason my husband has his “outbursts” and that he was fine before he met me and had kids (and “not to take that personally” she says(!)). So thank you for that advice. It’s something I really need to be aware of.

She is all about manipulation and control. She’s not a well person but puts up an excellent front. If you knew the half of her craziness… She spousefied her son because her own marriage was awful… It’s done devastating damage. My husband allows her to keep treating him like her little boy and for every single thing that goes wrong in his life she has an excuse. She sits and listens to his complaints and feeds back to him how hard-done by he is; how other people are so stupid; how no one gets him except her… It’s so sick and sad. She even believes that she can diagnose him with Aspergers as though that would excuse his behaviour. No point arguing with her that people with aspergers are not abusive. People are abusive because they have beliefs about themselves and the world- like the beliefs he’s been fed on his steady diet of entitlement growing up. She also told me he’d kill himself if I left. And she has the texts I sent her when he hit me and the kids and her awful, sweep-it-under-the-rug responses. She will try and get the boys. But I won’t let her.

One time she minded them and told me that the oldest had been naughty so she pulled him by the hair and shut him in the laundry as “time out”. I wanted to take her down on the spot I was so angry. I wanted to report her. But the worst thing is her emotional manipulation. And now I understand it and I see the damage it’s done.

My own mother has witnessed my MIL’s behaviour so that’s evidence. My sister-in-law is on my side. Even though my MIL will object that I’m unfit because I have depression/anxiety I’m sure that tactic will fail. My ex-therapist has had repeated accounts from my husband and I of her craziness.

The point you made about leaving before filing I agree with. Also about preparing for a violent reaction and using that as evidence. The other violence I’ve mentioned has been documented by professionals. So I’m organising a safety exit and accommodation plan, getting the kids safe and getting ready to face his reaction. Wasn’t going to file a divorce straight away but just separation through domestic violence agencies. Can you explain the difference/ necessity for filing divorce straight away as I don’t understand the legalities yet.

And thank you too for the advice regarding the ex girlfriends. Of course I ignored that red flag at the time. Now I know better. I remember him saying he was a pushover and they all took advantage of him and didn’t like it when he eventually “stood up” whatever that means.

Thanks for talking and sharing with me lily

 

[Magdalen2013]

The reason you file for divorce (not separation) is that the courts and police will take any retaliation from your soon-to-be-ex spouse more seriously. To them “separation” means that you still might go back to the abuser.

In addition to filing for divorce, tell the lawyer you want a restraining order that requires him to stay away from you and your children – and specify that if he wants visitation rights, it must be supervised visitation, as he has abused the children as well.

Good luck – you’ll be in my prayers.

 

[emsher]

The reason you file for divorce (not separation) is that the courts and police will take any retaliation from your soon-to-be-ex spouse more seriously. To them “separation” means that you still might go back to the abuser.

In addition to filing for divorce, tell the lawyer you want a restraining order that requires him to stay away from you and your children – and specify that if he wants visitation rights, it must be supervised visitation, as he has abused the children as well.

Good luck – you’ll be in my prayers.

Thanks again lily

 

[EmilyRenee]

If anyone laid a finger on my baby, he would be out of the picture, their father or not. Those babies are YOUR responsibility and if he can’t treat them as a loving father, with charity and respect–babies cry!–then he need not be in the picture. No one will hurt my baby with my knowledge…no one will have the option to hurt them a second time if they did the first. I will protect and love her with my every breath!

 

[emsher]

Hey guys I have some good news. I sat the GAMSAT in March but thought I did dismally. Turns out I passed and may have a shot at entering medical or dental school next year, which has been my dream for the last two years. Especially as I knew I couldn’t support my family (with or without husband) without a good salary.

So prior to this great news I had been organising to set myself up in Melbourne away from my husband and take an intervention order out on him. Now, if I do get into a school (which I won’t find out until September) I would be required to move interstate. So I’ve finally found a women’s legal advice centre and am going to talk about the implications if moving with the kids tomorrow. I spoke to a domestic violence intake worker today who suggested I get an intervention order after I had put away enough money and orchestrated the practicalities of moving. She understood my situation so so well. She also told me in her experience people like my husband can get dangerous when they know you’re leaving. Which is why the intervention order is the last step. Otherwise, if things get bad I can get him removed and I can stay in the place we are renting. Problem is I can’t pay the rent on my own. There’s so many things to consider and now I don’t know if I’ll be moving interstate either but really don’t want to pass up this chance because I may not get it again. The shelters here are short term solutions only so I’m a bit unsure where to go next, even though I now know that I am going at the right time.

Also his crazy mother has been in his ear lately. She’s not happy I passed the exam because she knows it would mean the family would move (but she doesn’t know I’m arranging to leave my husband). I wondered if my husband came with me, would this inspire him to work while I got the med degree, so we could afford rent in Sydney or WA. He always wanted me to pursue the course as he was happy with the idea of a good income!! But he went off, saying he shouldn’t have to work- he needs to keep studying so he can get a qualification, that it was “good of him” not to force me to work for the last three years and that he was still waiting for that support throughout his bachelor degree. I said “I was having three babies!” And he claimed that was always my excuse for being lazy. Anyway. He’s not all there.

So I decided to call his mum today as he has been over there a lot this week and I knew they’d be talking about things. She is so crazy!!! She complained that everybody thinks he’s unwilling to work and that she’s “sick of it” and that he’s just special, his circumstances are different, he’s rightly too embarrassed to take a job at a supermarket with other high schoolers, etc etc a whole string of excuses. That he needs to get more studies because his personality is such that if he stops now he’ll never go back to it. That she’s sure he will pick up part time work in Sydney even though he hasn’t had a scrap of work here the last three years and has only studies part time (whereas Sydney would be a full time masters)… Blah blah. I found myself getting sucked in to an argument with her. I’m just so sick of her babying, enabling, treating him like her best friend behaviour. It’s so unhealthy.

Talking to him he agreed he wanted to study and was sure we could make it work if we both studied. Apparently, according to his mother, he didn’t mean what he said to me. I just have to “not take him literally.” What?! So my slight hope that these prospects would make him come good on his responsibilities were dashed and I will do it alone. Besides, it doesn’t change the fact that he is who he is and that he basically has no fundamental respect for women and children and will therefore be abusive regardless of if we end up well off or not. That won’t change. But how can I do it alone? I need prayer and guidance that if this course be God’s will, everything will open up as it should.