Desperately seeking "M"

[dchezik]

Someone who signed their Name “M” asked me a question about my Protestantism and I’m timed out before I could answer and I can’t find M! Anyway, I’ll share this with the rest of you as well.

"…But I might ask the same about you, you claiming to be from one of the Church’s derivatives. For my part, I see a much larger picture than most Christians paint. In fact, I call standard Christianity in any of its forms known to me “Christianism.”

That stems from my contention that most of any religions are hand-me-downs. I don’t talk about it much, and I won’t. but after a major life altering event, I had to change my views. The Church just didn’t accommodate my experience. Not even close. I ended up going “East,” and then “West” again, but found what satisfied my rather radical perspective. It brought with it a very unusual and, to the Church, obnoxious reading of the history and practices of the Church, not to mention the specific words of Jesus in the Bible and some phrases in the OT."

M

dc: I’ve long since given up my Protestantism. I was a devout fundamental Baptist who could not assimilate some of the irrationalities of my religion and finally in a surge of intellectual integrity gave them all up. I have since resolved to try to always incline toward what seems most likely based on everything I know.

It’s interesting what happens when you do that. The world opens up. I remember my favorite verse: “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free!” I felt the scales fall off. Then I looked back on what I used to believe in wonderment!

Like (for one) God can sort through and attend to the millions and billions of prayers offered every day??? Imagine trying to reconcile all the contradictory requests! (Just by mental telepathy!)

Curiously, no one ever wonders why God hasn’t answered all the trillions of prayers for world peace! The rosary: Yes, just say these words over and over. God is counting. The more times it’s repeated, the more God counts it. Ri-i-ii-i-ght!!! Can you see him keeping score? “Hey, you only repeated it 400 times – no blessings for you!”

Why can’t you just think of your request and be done with it? Why do people have to keep importuning God with their requests? Why doesn’t he say, “Enough already!!! I heard the first time! I knew what you wanted before you even asked it.”
Especially since he knows what you want anyway? Why do Jews keep banging their heads on the wailing wall? Isn’t one request enough? Does God think repetition indicates how much you want it? People must think God is an idiot!

Still, my quest goes on. Why (not what) do people believe? There seems to be a basic human trait toward just believing what you’re told uncritically.

Now, here’s one for you: “I was sent by God to test your faith.” Why or why don’t you believe that? Or, alternatively, I am Satan’s emissary on earth and I have been dispatched to confuse and befuddle you.

Why would or wouldn’t you believe either one of those?

I’ve become fascinated with the beliefs of others. I find not so interesting from their theological content of their beliefs but why they should continue to believe them. I’m looking for the elements that would make it difficult for an honest intellect to continue to hold such outlandish beliefs. Why do people believe them and why do they continue to believe them?

Your missionary for critical thinking. Want to join me?

 

[promethius]

I’m not M, but I think I can handle your post

Like (for one) God can sort through and attend to the millions and billions of prayers offered every day??? Imagine trying to reconcile all the contradictory requests! (Just by mental telepathy!)

If God is omnipotent and omniscient, this isn’t an exactly hard thing to do. Obviously we don’t understand exactly how it works, but it’s quite easily within the scope of God.

Curiously, no one ever wonders why God hasn’t answered all the trillions of prayers for world peace!

Why would we expect God to hand us world peace on a silver platter? Peace in the world is within our purview and therefore is our responsibility to God, not the other way around.

The rosary: Yes, just say these words over and over. God is counting. The more times it’s repeated, the more God counts it. Ri-i-ii-i-ght!!! Can you see him keeping score? “Hey, you only repeated it 400 times – no blessings for you!”

Could you think of a more spiteful and unchristian way of wording that? For your education, the rosary is sometimes offered for a special intention, but it is not an intention based on repetition. The rosary, contrary to popular protestant misunderstanding, is actually a meditation on the life of Christ, not just a series of separate prayers. Since you clearly don’t understand this, perhaps you should stop bearing false witness about the catholics.

Why can’t you just think of your request and be done with it? Why do people have to keep importuning God with their requests? Why doesn’t he say, “Enough already!!! I heard the first time! I knew what you wanted before you even asked it.”
Especially since he knows what you want anyway?

Probably because Jesus never told us NOT to pray, just how to pray. He then provided a perfect example of prayer in the Pater Noster (our Father).

God WANTS us to approach Him. Being lazy about our faith and our prayer life is NOT God’s will for us. Why doesn’t God say enough already? Because prayer is beautiful to God.

Why do Jews keep banging their heads on the wailing wall? Isn’t one request enough? Does God think repetition indicates how much you want it? People must think God is an idiot!

I quite clearly can’t answer from the Jews, but their covenant is about sacrifice, so no, it doesn’t surprise me that they view repetition as efficacious. It has nothing to do with people thinking God is an idiot, so you might want to stop with the foolish pride. People become a lot more appealing when you’re not looking down your nose at them.

Still, my quest goes on. Why (not what) do people believe? There seems to be a basic human trait toward just believing what you’re told uncritically.

Perhaps you would like to check your own plank before you scoff at sawdust. You’re interested merely in satisfying your own preconceived notions of what others believe, with little interest apparent in checking to see if those notions are even true. Perhaps you should honestly approach people about WHAT they believe and then you can possibly become ready to understand why… but right now you’re a couple steps ahead of yourself.

Now, here’s one for you: “I was sent by God to test your faith.” Why or why don’t you believe that? Or, alternatively, I am Satan’s emissary on earth and I have been dispatched to confuse and befuddle you.

C) None of the above. You’re one of millions of protestants who think they’ve outsmarted more than a billion catholics and 2,000 years of theology from the only church that has stood since Christ entrusted it to the apostles. In that hubris, you think you’re on a quest from God and you think by setting up a false dichotomy that people will come to believe you’re a messenger of God because they don’t want to publicly state they think you’re Satan’s minion. The answer is simple: you’re a man. A man who presumes to know others’ beliefs more than them, but just a man none the less.

I’ve become fascinated with the beliefs of others

no you’re not. You’ve created a strange paradigm with false understanding about the beliefs of others and now you’re looking for “gotcha” moments. You have demonstrated, here, no interest in what others believe.

I’m looking for the elements that would make it difficult for an honest intellect to continue to hold such outlandish beliefs. Why do people believe them and why do they continue to believe them?

Look at that first sentence! That alone says worlds about you and your quest for truth. You’re looking for ways to break people down for what you label as outlandish beliefs without even understanding what those beliefs are! Perhaps if you gave up that position, the question you ask in the very next sentence would be VERY easy to answer.

Your missionary for critical thinking. Want to join me?

I’ve got critical thinking, that’s what the catholic church is about. Thank you very much, but I’ll stick with the church and it’s loving christian approach towards others’ beliefs.

 

[dchezik]

I’m not M, but I think I can handle your post

Why would we expect God to hand us world peace on a silver platter? Peace in the world is within our purview and therefore is our responsibility to God, not the other way around. "

[Well if peace is our responsibility, why do so many pray for it from God?]

“The rosary, contrary to popular protestant misunderstanding, is actually a meditation on the life of Christ, not just a series of separate prayers. Since you clearly don’t understand this, perhaps you should stop bearing false witness about the catholics.”

Letters from the Earth is a classic!]

[Re: the rosary: Isn’t it just a repetition after repetition of the same words with an intermittent Pater Noster thrown in? Imagine yourself a supernatural being whose worshipers show their praise of you by saying the same thing over and over over. I mean, you’ve heard it once, why say it again? It’s Mary who’s hearing these right? Then she relays the message, right?

But let me be fair, Protestants share many of these absurdities with you. E.g., both Catholics and Protestants in a close basketball game, say prayers at the free throw line. Like God is going to intervene on one team’s side – or the side that says more prayers? Should Catholic players be allowed to cross themselves at the free throw line? That seems unfair!

A coach at a school where I taught once said after a close game that the home team pulled out at the last second: “You can’t give up on the Lord. He’ll always come through for you!” The newspaper quoted him on the sports page. He must have been wrong because the Lord apparently didn’t come through for them in their next game – they lost by 11 points!

Myself, I think it’s unfair for a team to invoke an omnipotent being on their behalf. I wish the other team had protested “No fair! God helped them! The coach admitted the Lord helped them win!”]

“Jesus never told us NOT to pray, just how to pray. He then provided a perfect example of prayer in the Pater Noster (our Father).”

[He certainly is a little short on daily bread in some of the famine-stricken areas!]

“God WANTS us to approach Him. Being lazy about our faith and our prayer life is NOT God’s will for us. Why doesn’t God say enough already? Because prayer is beautiful to God.”
“I quite clearly can’t answer from the Jews, but their covenant is about sacrifice, so no, it doesn’t surprise me that they view repetition as efficacious. It has nothing to do with people thinking God is an idiot, so you might want to stop with the foolish pride. People become a lot more appealing when you’re not looking down your nose at them.”

[Look! I love people! I just don’t like their irrationalities. They cause more evil with their irrationality than with their faith. Think of the Spanish Inquisition! Think of the Witch trials! And the Catholic religion has a lot to answer for in terms of holding up progress. Look at the resistance to stem cell research! Look at the resistance to evolution! (Although in all fairness, they did admit they were wrong on that and took Darwin off the index as they did Copernicus. And they apologized to Galileo!) (He’s dead of course, but it was a nice gesture!) I’m not sure if they still have an Index Librorum Prohibitorum.

But what I really RESENT (here’s my anger) is that some in the church hierarchy try to shape governmental policy according to their theology, by instructing their congregations who to vote for! Outrageous! It’s every bit as inappropriate as Pat Robertson and some of the other televangelists!]

[Ok, tell me what sawdust I need to sweep off my plank – I’m listening! Please be specific and give your reasons.]

"C) None of the above. You’re one of millions of protestants who think they’ve outsmarted more than a billion catholics and 2,000 years of theology from the only church that has stood since Christ entrusted it to the apostles…

[It’s not all that hard to outsmart billions of people who are uninformed and blindly faithful to a belief that makes no sense. For 2000 years the Catholic Church believed Aristotle (who thought men had more teeth than women and that heavier objects fell faster than lighter objects!) They believed in Witches and two Catholic monks even wrote a book about them (Malleus Maleficarum) that was a standard manual. Catholics still perform exocisms! Of course, a recent (protestant) vice presidential candidate had one performed on her (whoops! I gave it away!)

Yeah, it’s not all that hard to outsmart all those billions!

I don’t know everything, but I do know a lot of stuff and I keep trying to learn! As Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman said, “I only have a little while on earth to learn and I’ve got a long way to go!”

"I’ve got critical thinking, that’s what the catholic church is about. Thank you very much, but I’ll stick with the church and it’s loving christian approach towards others’ beliefs.

[And the sun and all the stars go around a stationary earth and if you say they don’t I’ll burn you at the stake. You want critical thinking? I’ll give you critical thinking!]

 

[Kassandra]

 

[Pieman333272]

Actuality, it was only Protestants who believed in witch trials - Yes, some Catholics did it, but not as much as Protestants, and the Church did not endorse it either then or now. As for the “burning at the stake for believing in the solar system” thing (I forgot to quote you and I’m too lazy to do it now ) that is not in the Bible anywhere, and the solar system concept is now endorsed by almost every Christian denomination worldwide. As for exorcisms, they are a last resort and are now used only after the “demon-possessed individual” has been to both a physician and a psychologist, with authority of the Bishop/Archbishop and consent of the exorcist.

More evil with religion is a common lie. Think of the Soviet Union under Stalin - it oppressed religion and almost destroyed the human race . Not to mention the fact that religion sparked all sorts of great art, music and architecture over the last 15 centuries. Yes, some wars have been caused by religion, but not as much as by hatred of (a) religion, as you are practicing now.

And why can’t you see that religion and science can work with each other? Think about it. Newton and Pascal were both heavily religious and made huge contributions to the science and mathematics fields because of their faith.

 

[dchezik314159]

Actuality, it was only Protestants who believed in witch trials - Yes, some Catholics did it, but not as much as Protestants, and the Church did not endorse it either then or now.

See below:
“The Burning Times is a modern term for the historical time when thousands of witches were tortured and killed for suspected heresy. **The Catholic Church wanted to purify the witch’s soul and believed burning them alive would do the trick. Burning at the stake was just one of the methods to eradicate and save these witches. **”

As for the “burning at the stake for believing in the solar system” thing (I forgot to quote you and I’m too lazy to do it now ) that is not in the Bible anywhere, and the solar system concept is now endorsed by almost every Christian denomination worldwide. As for exorcisms, they are a last resort and are now used only after the “demon-possessed individual” has been to both a physician and a psychologist, with authority of the Bishop/Archbishop and consent of the exorcist.

[So I guess you guys still believe in demons? After all, you did perform an exorcism on Mother Teresa for her insomnia. Those damn demons were keeping her awake! Way to go!]

[As far as being burned at the stake: " Here (Bruno) was arrested by the Inquisition and tried. After he had recanted, Bruno was sent to Rome, in 1592, for another trial. For eight years he was kept imprisoned and interrogated periodically. When, in the end, he refused to recant, he was declared a heretic and burned at the stake."

I confess that it is not entirely certain that Bruno, who did espouse Copernicanism, was burned at the stake specifically for that belief. It was probably for some heresy that justified a cleansing by fire. Some beliefs really do need to be purged by fire! I do have to be careful about making such undocumented statements.

But, would you agree that not believing some Catholic dogma is insufficient justification for stake-burning? And poor Joan of Arc! (The witch!) The Catholics did burn her at the stake, didn’t they? – Well, I guess anyone hearing voices would have to be consorting with the devil, wouldn’t they?

In conclusion, you have to admit that even sentencing to life imprisonment for believing the Copernican doctrine is a little harsh.

More evil with religion is a common lie. Think of the Soviet Union under Stalin - it oppressed religion and almost destroyed the human race . Not to mention the fact that religion sparked all sorts of great art, music and architecture over the last 15 centuries. Yes, some wars have been caused by religion, but not as much as by *hatred of (a) religion

, as you are practicing now.

[It’s not that I hate religion, *per se but that I object to believing in things that are outrageously improbable, like witchcraft. As I said before, the Catholic Church is not alone in their gullibility. (A Protestant Vice Presidential Candidate also believed in witchcraft).

And why can’t you see that religion and science can work with each other? Think about it. Newton and Pascal were both heavily religious and made huge contributions to the science and mathematics fields because of their faith.

[And Einstein made **huge contributions in spite of his atheism. Carl Sagan was also an atheist, as is Stephen Hawking. The reason that science and religion are incompatible (regardless of some scientists’ denial of this) is that Science requires skepticism and Religion requires faith.]

And I really doubt that Newton and Pascal’s contributions were the result of their faith! (Well, maybe when Galileo was placed under lifetime house arrest by the Inquisition, he had time to think? But how do I explain John Polkinghorne’s [brilliant physicist!] becoming an Anglican Bishop? And Newt Gingrich, that powerful intellect of the 21st century, converted from being a Baptist to a Catholic?

Goes to show that intelligence is not the determining factor of whether you believe nonsense. Non-critical thinking cuts across all intelligence levels. ]

 

[Pieman333272]

You are so lacking on intelligent arguments there is no reason to even try to convince you otherwise. You’re clearly fed up on conspiracy-theory history and Dawkins-quality views of religion and science. Come back when you have serious arguments.

 

[sllhouette]

dchezik,

I have read some of your posts and I have to say that I think your insistence on critical thinking is a wonderful thing.It has been my experience that the strongest Catholics are the ones who are unafraid to ask themselves the hard questions.

The most pathetic thing to see is a lazy atheist: someone who doesn’t know and just doesn’t care. Only a small step up in my opinion is the lazy christian: someone who has access to the truth’s of the faith, but doesn’t want to understand the answers to the hard questions. It is MUCH better to be seeking the truth with all your strength, mind, and soul then to be idly accepting the belief of others. Of course much better still is to HAVE the truth. I don’t pretend to know the fullness of truth, but I have faith that in time God will reveal the fullness of Truth to me.

I find I do not understand your conjecture that science and faith are incompatible. I find that I can be skeptical BECAUSE I have faith. For example, I have faith that God created the universe so I can research and read things about the big bang theory that have the potential to conflict with my belief. I can do this because I have faith in God’s goodness and I know that any such study (so long as it reveals the truth of the universe) can only reveal that goodness. Indeed, I see that this faith is common in the Church. I should say at this point that Darwin was not an atheist, I don’t think Einstein was and I KNOW Georges Lemaître (the origin of the big bang theory) wasn’t an atheist.

I should say about myself that I understand Thomas’ insistence that he could not believe in the resurrection unless he could place his hand in Christ’s wound. I have felt that way before and I every time God provided me the evidence I needed. Christ has built great faith in me, but the origin of my faith is reason, not blind obedience.

So in these ways I find that my faith builds my reason while my reason builds my faith.

“Then I looked back on what I used to believe in wonderment!” I find this has happened to me many times in my life. Each time seems to be twice as profound as the last. The heart of the Catholic faith is a desire (and pursuit of) for the Truth.

That I believe answers your question.

As far as quoting you goes… “God can sort through and attend to the millions and billions of prayers offered every day??? Imagine trying to reconcile all the contradictory requests!”
– This assumes that God has to do what we tell him to; as if God is somehow subject to Our will. This should automatically seem absurd to any christian. We pray, not that God might know our will, but that we might be conformed to his. This is why I pray the rosary. This is why I go to mass. That I might conform my actions to God’s will. That I might make God’s will present here on the earth like his will is present in heaven.

I think one of my favorite things about the faith is that I have the writings of many intelligent critically thinking men to rely upon to inform my own thoughts. Thomas Aquinas says that sacred doctrine is a science. Just as in any science one cannot rely simply upon one’s own perspective, but must also consult the research of others, so to in theology must we rely upon the reason of others. This is what the church provides me: Understanding, not blind faith.

I don’t know if you will ever find this, but I pray that God will bless you in your journey.
Peace be with you

 

[dchezik]

Hi, Silhouette! I just checked back and saw your post. You seem like a good person – more like a Christian than others I have discussed with.

dchezik,

I have read some of your posts and I have to say that I think your insistence on critical thinking is a wonderful thing.It has been my experience that the strongest Catholics are the ones who are unafraid to ask themselves the hard questions.

The most pathetic thing to see is a lazy atheist: someone who doesn’t know and just doesn’t care. Only a small step up in my opinion is the lazy christian: someone who has access to the truth’s of the faith, but doesn’t want to understand the answers to the hard questions. It is MUCH better to be seeking the truth with all your strength, mind, and soul then to be idly accepting the belief of others. Of course much better still is to HAVE the truth. I don’t pretend to know the fullness of truth, but I have faith that in time God will reveal the fullness of Truth to me.

I find I do not understand your conjecture that science and faith are incompatible. I find that I can be skeptical BECAUSE I have faith “Having faith” and being skeptical are diametrically opposed - even contradictory - nevertheless, it is possible to mix the two. You can have some skepticism and some faith, but the more faith you have, the less skeptical you are. Having faith does not lead to being skeptical.]. For example, I have faith that God created the universe so I can research and read things about the big bang theory that have the potential to conflict with my belief. I can do this because I have faith in God’s goodness and I know that any such study (so long as it reveals the truth of the universe) can only reveal that goodness. Indeed, I see that this faith is common in the Church. I should say at this point that Darwin was not an atheist, I don’t think Einstein was Einstein denied the existence of a personal God and was probably a deist, which is quite different from the Catholic interpretation of God.] and I KNOW Georges Lemaître (the origin of the big bang theory) wasn’t an atheist.As you know, Lemaitre was a priest and is generally given credit for the theory of the Big Bang. It has always puzzled me that great minds can espouse the Catholic faith (notice it’s the Catholic faith, not the Catholic theory.). I am equally puzzled by John Polkinghorne who is a brilliant scientist with many awards in particle physics and who was ordained as an Anglican priest) (Apparently God didn’t want him to be a Catholic! Hmm.)]/**.)

I should say about myself that I understand Thomas’ insistence that he could not believe in the resurrection unless he could place his hand in Christ’s wound. I have felt that way before and I every time God provided me the evidence I needed. Christ has built great faith in me, but the origin of my faith is reason, not blind obedience.

So in these ways I find that my faith builds my reason **In science, we call this being biased - and indeed a bias will facilitate a belief you might not otherwise accept.****] while my reason builds my faith.

“Then I looked back on what I used to believe in wonderment!” I find this has happened to me many times in my life. Each time seems to be twice as profound as the last. The heart of the Catholic faith is a desire (and pursuit of) for the Truth. Like the Cardinal who wouldn’t look through Galileo’s telescope?]

That I believe answers your question.

As far as quoting you goes… “God can sort through and attend to the millions and billions of prayers offered every day??? Imagine trying to reconcile all the contradictory requests!”
– This assumes that God has to do what we tell him to; as if God is somehow subject to Our will. This should automatically seem absurd to any christian. We pray, not that God might know our will, but that we might be conformed to his. This is why I pray the rosary. This is why I go to mass. That I might conform my actions to God’s will. That I might make God’s will present here on the earth like his will is present in heaven.

I think one of my favorite things about the faith is that I have the writings of many intelligent critically thinking men to rely upon to inform my own thoughts. Thomas Aquinas says that sacred doctrine is a science. Just as in any science one cannot rely simply upon one’s own perspective, but must also consult the research of others, so to in theology must we rely upon the reason of others. This is what the church provides me: Understanding, not blind faith.

Silhouette, Thank you again for your kind response. I know you are sincere and that’s worth something. I hope if you ever come to renounce your Catholicism or even change to another faith, you will let me know.]
I don’t know if you will ever find this, but I pray that God will bless you in your journey.
Peace be with you
May whatever powers that be lead you to the truth we are all seeking. One final thing: Jesus said “If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.” He didn’t put any restrictions on it. Do you think this is true?]
Don

 

[Gblat]

I’m not “M,” but I could have written that!

dc: I’ve long since given up my Protestantism. I was a devout fundamental Baptist who could not assimilate some of the irrationalities of my religion and finally in a surge of intellectual integrity gave them all up. I have since resolved to try to always incline toward what seems most likely based on everything I know.

That sounds like a very reasonable start. It is a good position from which to be both aware and to make adjustments according to your best and most sincere knowledge. I am one of who make a great distinction between whatever it is that might construe “Knowing” God and knowing about God as and intellectual construct. I fail to understand the stance that claims that God can be known by means of “natural” knowledge or observing the world. That only yields relative knowledge, even if it is practical scientific knowledge. It is not yet the whole, or God, from whose “position” is the only possible fullness of knowledge in an absolute sense.Yet the word “absolute” is bandied about as if it had meaning in the relative framework of human mentality and its incompleteness.

It’s interesting what happens when you do that. The world opens up. I remember my favorite verse: “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free!” I felt the scales fall off. Then I looked back on what I used to believe in wonderment!

Yes, that gives one a relative degree of freedom less bound by, in our case, a paradigm restricted by the need to be internally consistent with both a bedouin tradition four thousand years old, and a middle-distance one that has been in my opinion radically misunderstood.

Like (for one) God can sort through and attend to the millions and billions of prayers offered every day??? Imagine trying to reconcile all the contradictory requests! (Just by mental telepathy!)

Yes, “God in His Righteousness is on our side, and will aid us to smash our common enemy!” both sides pray, forgetting, it would seem, that God is the Father of ALL His children. There are many Christians ("christianists! That is a useful term!) who are not this shallow, thank goodness!

Curiously, no one ever wonders why God hasn’t answered all the trillions of prayers for world peace! The rosary: Yes, just say these words over and over. God is counting. The more times it’s repeated, the more God counts it. Ri-i-ii-i-ght!!! Can you see him keeping score? “Hey, you only repeated it 400 times – no blessings for you!”

These petitioners, imho, are misunderstanding the use of prayer,for the most part. I really like what CS Lewis said: “I pray not to change God, but to change myself.” and that is the primary competent and useful application of prayer: to hold one’s mind on a Truth so as to adjust one’s own actions and paradigms to comply to the highest Ideal. If that is done, and one actually changes, becoming more transparent to God, then one becomes and attractive force to some, and an anathema to others because their excuse to stay unchanged has been taken away.

Why can’t you just think of your request and be done with it? Why do people have to keep importuning God with their requests? Why doesn’t he say, “Enough already!!! I heard the first time! I knew what you wanted before you even asked it.”

That is lovely! I knew a metaphysician who was asked if employing more than one to do work on a presentation of error, laughed and said that it would be silly to assume that God would be more aware of the scenario if more people stated truth about it. He even said that “work” is a misnomer, as the “work” is already done, only our minds need to be aligned to the Truth as is always already is. And when that happens, there can be the appearance of a miracle!

Especially since he knows what you want anyway? Why do Jews keep banging their heads on the wailing wall? Isn’t one request enough? Does God think repetition indicates how much you want it? People must think God is an idiot!

Yes, this is why many sane folks contend that there exists the possibility and practice of making God in one’s own image!

 

[Gblat]

Still, my quest goes on. Why (not what) do people believe? There seems to be a basic human trait toward just believing what you’re told uncritically.

Asking “why” will eventually drive you nuts, if it hasn’t already, as I’m sure you are aware of the astounding contradictions some would require us to accept as God’s Truth from all the thousands of “one and only” true religions! It is far better to simply inquire as to what is God’s Truth, or to simply love God and be receptive to grace. Jesus’ two Great Commandments are, fundamentally, what any religion based on love requires, and the following of ritual, if you so believe and are inclined. It is now kind of common knowledge what Columbus said about the Indians he met before he killed them.

Now, here’s one for you: “I was sent by God to test your faith.” Why or why don’t you believe that? Or, alternatively, I am Satan’s emissary on earth and I have been dispatched to confuse and befuddle you.

Laugh, and go on your way, thanking them for their service.

Why would or wouldn’t you believe either one of those?

Why waste time thinking about that? The wonders of God ar multitudinous and many, and you are a child of God!

I’ve become fascinated with the beliefs of others. I find not so interesting from their theological content of their beliefs but why they should continue to believe them. I’m looking for the elements that would make it difficult for an honest intellect to continue to hold such outlandish beliefs. Why do people believe them and why do they continue to believe them?

People feel a need to be safe from the unknown, and a need for understanding. Both of those manifest at different levels of maturity, a commodity that may be increasing in the world, despite much contrary evidence. It maybe why religious people are putting up such a fuss. They know at some level that institutionalized religion cannot serve the need of the individual beyond a certain point. If you are a child of God, how long will it be necessary for you to have brothers and sisters interceding or governing on your behalf? Eventually one has to go direct, in the fullness of time. That is when it may not be useful to see through the sand blasted lenses of any institution and it’s millenia old momentum, whatever it calls itself. That is fine and wonderful if it suffices the needs of one who needs faith. But there is a beyond of faith, as there is a beyond of mind. Therein lies adventure and the unfolding Love of God past the strictures we place on Him with belief.

Your missionary for critical thinking. Want to join me?

Truth is whole, and needs no joining, and its expression is fresh manna daily. But people in agreement always enjoy each other’s company!