Despite Vatican Warning, SSPX Vows to Go Ahead with Ordinations [HB]
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ProVobis
Guest
Sounds like Philip Pullella has an agenda of his own. Why does he have to bring up the Holocaust? Is this the real issue? Looks like the SSPX have been set up to fail again, and not by the Holy Father either.
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DorianGregorian
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It is my understanding that the Ordinations are Valid but Illicit?
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ProVobis
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Yes, Apostolic Succession trumps politics.
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ProVobis
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JReducation
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I just read the statement made by the Vatican. I read it in the original Italian. I don’t see what the big issue is or why some people are believing that someone it out to get the SSPX.
The Italian version only repeats what anyone who undestands canon law already knows.
But that’s not new. That was already stated when the excommunication was lifted.
The statement does not threaten anyone. It does not even tell the SSPX bishops not to ordain. It simply reminds everyone of the status of the ordinations. Anyone who understands canon law understands that you cannot have licit ordinations.
As long as they do not try to consecrate a bishop, I doubt that there would be consequences.
The only thing that can pose a problem would be the local bishop. A local bishop can excommunicate. If the local bishop decides to excommunicate the SSPX bishops perfoming the ordination, for not having faculties to ordain in his diocese, then the excommunication has to be appealed to the Holy Father. It would be a vlid excommunication, because there is a canon that allows a bishop to excommunicate. But like all excommunications, it has to get the final seal of approval from the Pope.
Since the SSPX and the Vatican are trying to mend relationships, I personally do not believe that the local bishops are going to excommunicate the SSPX bishops for ordaining. They’re just going to remind the people that the priests are ilegally ordained.
The local bishop may impose a sanction on the people of his diocese. He may declare that if they try to go to confession to the illegally ordained priests they will not receive absolution. The bishop can do that and it does stick. That’s Church law. Only the local bishop can decide who can absolve from sin. There is only one exception to this rule, that’s a priest who is a member of a religious order who hears confessions in a chapel or church belonging to his order. But the SSPX are secular priests, so they are not covered by the rule that protects religious.
But that all has to be played out, if it’s going to be played out, between the local bishop and the SSPX bishop doing the ordaining.
The Vatican has made no threat or asked anyone not to ordain. It has just repeated what it said about the status of the Bishops. In this case, I think it is fair to say that the Vatican wants to remind everyone about the legal status of the newly ordained priestsl, not threaten anyone.
I didn’t get that sense from the original Italian version. I read some of the English translations and commentaries, such as Reuters and found them to be harsher than the Italian version issued by the Vatican Press Office. But then again, I was not looking to comment or embelisht the statement. I just wanted to know what it said.
Anyone who knows Italian should read the original statement. It is pretty straightfoward and business like. It is not a threat or a challenge.
I hope this helps.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
The Italian version only repeats what anyone who undestands canon law already knows.
- The SSPX bishops are in communion with Rome.
- The SSPX bishops and priests do not have ecclesial authority. This basically means that they are suspended.
- Until there is an understanding on certain matters of faith, they will not have ecclesial authority.
- Since they do not have ecclesial authority, they do not have the authority to ordain and the ordinations are illicit.
But that’s not new. That was already stated when the excommunication was lifted.
The statement does not threaten anyone. It does not even tell the SSPX bishops not to ordain. It simply reminds everyone of the status of the ordinations. Anyone who understands canon law understands that you cannot have licit ordinations.
As long as they do not try to consecrate a bishop, I doubt that there would be consequences.
The only thing that can pose a problem would be the local bishop. A local bishop can excommunicate. If the local bishop decides to excommunicate the SSPX bishops perfoming the ordination, for not having faculties to ordain in his diocese, then the excommunication has to be appealed to the Holy Father. It would be a vlid excommunication, because there is a canon that allows a bishop to excommunicate. But like all excommunications, it has to get the final seal of approval from the Pope.
Since the SSPX and the Vatican are trying to mend relationships, I personally do not believe that the local bishops are going to excommunicate the SSPX bishops for ordaining. They’re just going to remind the people that the priests are ilegally ordained.
The local bishop may impose a sanction on the people of his diocese. He may declare that if they try to go to confession to the illegally ordained priests they will not receive absolution. The bishop can do that and it does stick. That’s Church law. Only the local bishop can decide who can absolve from sin. There is only one exception to this rule, that’s a priest who is a member of a religious order who hears confessions in a chapel or church belonging to his order. But the SSPX are secular priests, so they are not covered by the rule that protects religious.
But that all has to be played out, if it’s going to be played out, between the local bishop and the SSPX bishop doing the ordaining.
The Vatican has made no threat or asked anyone not to ordain. It has just repeated what it said about the status of the Bishops. In this case, I think it is fair to say that the Vatican wants to remind everyone about the legal status of the newly ordained priestsl, not threaten anyone.
I didn’t get that sense from the original Italian version. I read some of the English translations and commentaries, such as Reuters and found them to be harsher than the Italian version issued by the Vatican Press Office. But then again, I was not looking to comment or embelisht the statement. I just wanted to know what it said.
Anyone who knows Italian should read the original statement. It is pretty straightfoward and business like. It is not a threat or a challenge.
I hope this helps.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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pnewton
Guest
It also trumps obedience, common sense, charity and many other things, depending on how one’s views are.
I do not know why this is news, but then I also do not know how Reuters stays in business with this sort of nonsense. The SSPX has been doing the same thing. The ordinations have not been licit. There is nothing new in the Vatican statement and no additional hidden message in the SSPX action.
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JReducation
Guest
I think I know that answer. Reuters enjoys attacking Catholics and causing a conflict is one of the best ways to weaken your enemy. Unfortuantely, too many people read what Reuters publishes and run with it. Some post of these forums. Look at the number of people on CAF who have already believed that either the Vatican or the SSPX have some plot up their sleeve. Then you read the original on the Vatican Site, in the original Italian, you find that it has nothing to add that we don’t already know.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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