Destroying Iran's Nuclear Capabilities

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The pope is not the one legally responsible for making the decision if the United States (or any other country, for that matter) should go to war. In the United States, it is Congress that makes that decision and evaluates whether or not the conditions for a just war exist.
This argument divests the Pope of all authority doesn’t it? The Pope is not legally responsible for laws on abortion, or marriage, or euthanasia. The Congress can change all those laws tomorrow. So the Pope’s teaching on those things don’ t matter either?

The Pope has spoken out repeatedly against this war. If your conscience tells you he is wrong, I can accept that. To pretend this is not a topic he is competent to teach on is just disingenuous.
 
For those who oppose military strikes now, because they question the supposed evidence, would you support such an attack if they tested a nuclear weapon first?

Indeed this could be very dangerous, both for us, and for our neighbor’s, but that would prove Iran’s intent. Thoughts?
Isn’t it ignorant to expect that sooner or later Iran or Siria or N. Korea wont gain nuclear capability. Maybe if this time Iran fails, next time they’ll do it more secretly, better hidden, deeper underground, etc…, but the next time their attitude will be also more defiant?

I mean, what does a military strike against nuclear sites actually accomplish. The scientists who built it once, can build it also the second time, or am I missing something?
 
As to my post # 18. I was confused as to OP question with something else. I apologize for my comments as to others intetions and my mistatements re: OP. Dan
 
With all the facts, and being charged with the responsiblities of the US President, he would certainly be competent to make that decision.
On the contrary. As one poster noted the only civil authority in the US that is competent enough is Congress and only directly. Their authority is undermined when they are forced to give the President a blank check if and when he or she feels like going to war. Do you really think Hilary knows better than the Pope?
 
Isn’t it ignorant to expect that sooner or later Iran or Siria or N. Korea wont gain nuclear capability. Maybe if this time Iran fails, next time they’ll do it more secretly, better hidden, deeper underground, etc…, but the next time their attitude will be also more defiant?

I mean, what does a military strike against nuclear sites actually accomplish. The scientists who built it once, can build it also the second time, or am I missing something?
I suppose there are no guarantees either way. I don’t disagree with you. 🙂
 
No, I don;t think so. Other countries have similar capabilities and why should some countries have it, while others don’t? Isn’t the USA causing a lot of sorrow and pain in Iraq right now?
My personal opinion is that it is better to promote peace, rather than war. In any type of war, too many innocent people get hurt, and it is oftentimes a most terrible and horrific hurt, and oftentimes lies are told in order to coverup the terrible pain inflicted on the innocent. But many times, those in charge of causing this horrific pain and suffering to mankind are oftentimes left unpunished. It is the poor, the innocent children, the powerless people who are most often hurt by these terrible wars.
I am for peace and harmony between peoples and countries. I am opposed to lies and war and torture and killing of innocent people.
If Iran tested a nuclear weapon successfully and continue to use rhetoric about destroying Israel and establishing a global caliphate, would you still hold the same view?

I am not disagreeing with you by the way. 🙂
 
If Iran tested a nuclear weapon successfully and continue to use rhetoric about destroying Israel and establishing a global caliphate, would you still hold the same view?

I am not disagreeing with you by the way. 🙂
I noticed that Pakistan has the A-Bomb. why isn’t it thought that Pakistan is a danger to the West. Isn’t this the country which has terrorists? didn’t Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the USA all help the Taliban in Afghanistan when they wanted the USSR out?
I am for peace and I am opposed to war. I don’t see the justification for killing and torturing these innocent people and civilians in Iraq or in other places.
 
I noticed that Pakistan has the A-Bomb. why isn’t it thought that Pakistan is a danger to the West. Isn’t this the country which has terrorists? didn’t Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the USA all help the Taliban in Afghanistan when they wanted the USSR out?
I am for peace and I am opposed to war. I don’t see the justification for killing and torturing these innocent people and civilians in Iraq or in other places.
Well, I’m sure your views go deeper than this; otherwise, I would say they are overly simplistic, particularly when it comes to Iran. Yes, in theory, I am utterly against war and oppose torture, but I do believe in Just War as the Church teaches. I believe WWII was justified, though parts were fought the wrong way.

If Iran continues to move forward, we won’t even have to attack Iran. Israel will do it themselves, with or without us.

If Iran declares war on Israel, do you believe we are obliged to help defend them?

This is a very possible scenario.
 
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bobzills:
I noticed that Pakistan has the A-Bomb. why isn’t it thought that Pakistan is a danger to the West. Isn’t this the country which has terrorists?
I think this is very much a concern in Washington. Since 2001 much fretting has been done regarding how hard to push President Musharraf since we were afraid of undermining his support/control. Yes, the prospect of radical Islamists there gaining nuclear material is more than a bit worrisome.
 
Yes, in theory, I am utterly against war and oppose torture, but I do believe in Just War as the Church teaches. I believe WWII was justified, though parts were fought the wrong way. .
I have a problem with the just war theory, because it looks to me like every war today is really unjust. For example, you mention WWII. Was it just to kill innocent women and children civilians by dropping the A-Bomb on Japan. And after all, who is the USA to be going around giving sermons against munclear weapons and playing Mr. Country of high moral character, when they are the only ones who have dropped this immoral A=Bomb on civilians in the first place.
The UN says that Iran does not have the capability to develop these kinds of weapons. But by they way, doesn’t Israel and Pakistan have them. What is so different about Israel and Pakistan? Or for that matter, why should the USA have all these nuclear bombs and chemical and biological weapons that can destroy everyone in the whole world thirty or forty times over?
These modern wars are all basically unjust, because it always results in innocent women, children and civilians being tortured, wounded, suffering horrible pain, and being killed. There are plenty of horrible pictures on the internet which show the hell that the USA has done to innocent children in Iraq.
 
Would destroying Iran’s Nuclear Capabilities with military force be justified?
No, it wouldnt be.

Besides, what Country/group would be justified in doing so?

Any country that has nuclear capabilities (ie: power) would be out and any that had nuclear weapons would most certainly be out.

We cant use the excuse of threats of violence to exclude them from having nuclear capabilities, otherwise the US and USSR would have had to have theirs destroyed decades ago.
 
No, it wouldnt be.

Besides, what Country/group would be justified in doing so?

Any country that has nuclear capabilities (ie: power) would be out and any that had nuclear weapons would most certainly be out.

We cant use the excuse of threats of violence to exclude them from having nuclear capabilities, otherwise the US and USSR would have had to have theirs destroyed decades ago.
If a madman had his trigger on a rocket launcher aimed at a crowd of civilians, would a sharp shooter be justified at putting a bullet in his head?

I don’t see that as very different. I’m not giving you my opinion here; I’m merely asking you a question.
 
I have a problem with the just war theory, because it looks to me like every war today is really unjust. For example, you mention WWII. Was it just to kill innocent women and children civilians by dropping the A-Bomb on Japan. And after all, who is the USA to be going around giving sermons against munclear weapons and playing Mr. Country of high moral character, when they are the only ones who have dropped this immoral A=Bomb on civilians in the first place.
The UN says that Iran does not have the capability to develop these kinds of weapons. But by they way, doesn’t Israel and Pakistan have them. What is so different about Israel and Pakistan? Or for that matter, why should the USA have all these nuclear bombs and chemical and biological weapons that can destroy everyone in the whole world thirty or forty times over?
These modern wars are all basically unjust, because it always results in innocent women, children and civilians being tortured, wounded, suffering horrible pain, and being killed. There are plenty of horrible pictures on the internet which show the hell that the USA has done to innocent children in Iraq.
The Church would agree that much of WWII was fought unjustly, especially the A-bomb. I can’t see how you thought I was arguing with that. In fact, I clearly stated that I believed parts of it were unjustly fought.

Even Gandhi said that his tactics would have been futile with the Nazis. Yes, I believe it was a necessary (though painful) action to rescue the Jews and all of Europe from the Nazi machine.

“The UN says that Iran does not have the capability to develop these kinds of weapons.” … if this is true, yes, we should stay out of Iran without a doubt. I would like to see the U.N.'s documentation on this.

I don’t necessarily disagree that we should stay out of Iran and not do a strike, but I do not find your logic very compelling. To me the reality of the situation is not black and white. That being said, I don’t believe we should have invaded Iraq. If Iran was relatively stable and trustworthy, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

Just think of the innocent lives of Hiroshima. Iran could potentially do a lot worse than that. We know for a fact they are openly calling for the annihilation of Israel and the United States.

Let me ask you this. If Iran uses a nuke on any country, do you then believe we are justified at striking their nuclear facillities?
 
If a madman had his trigger on a rocket launcher aimed at a crowd of civilians, would a sharp shooter be justified at putting a bullet in his head?

I don’t see that as very different. I’m not giving you my opinion here; I’m merely asking you a question.
Well I guess those sharp shooters are going to be busy then, because there are (and has been) a lot of “madmen” with rocket launchers around.
 
Well I guess those sharp shooters are going to be busy then, because there are (and has been) a lot of “madmen” with rocket launchers around.
You’re not kidding. I guess it’s better than having countless dead innocents.
 
Let me ask you this. If Iran uses a nuke on any country, do you then believe we are justified at striking their nuclear facillities?
I will answer that question this way. Since the US has used nukes on innocent civilians in Japan, do you then believe that some other country (India, Russia, Pakistan or ?) would be justified at striking the nuclear facilities in the USA?
 
You’re not kidding. I guess it’s better than having countless dead innocents.
Well I guess the “sharp shooters” had better start with the United States, since that would most definatly count as a “madman with a rocket launcher”.

A leader who tries to pick a fight with China most certainly counts as a “madman” (to just mention one “madman”).
 
I will answer that question this way. Since the US has used nukes on innocent civilians in Japan, do you then believe that some other country (India, Russia, Pakistan or ?) would be justified at striking the nuclear facilities in the USA?
Apples and oranges. We used the atomic bombs to bring WWII to a quicker end. Not saying it was a good choice, but better than a full fledged invasion of Japan that would’ve killed more people than the two atomic bombs combined.
 
Apples and oranges. We used the atomic bombs to bring WWII to a quicker end. Not saying it was a good choice, but better than a full fledged invasion of Japan that would’ve killed more people than the two atomic bombs combined.
The projected deaths of an invasion has grown with time. In part because of Truman’s concience. There is quite a weath of correspondance, etc. at the Truman library that is well worth reading.

Perhaps one of the best books on the subject is RACING THE ENEMY by Hasegawa.

On the subject at hand, it is worth noting that most of the resources we are talking about are very, very deep underground. So so-called ‘bunker busters’ would need to be used. This is presumably why the administration has spent millions refurbishing B52 bombers.

If we drop massive bunker busting bombs, than the number of civilian casualties will be very, very large. The irony is that while Iran’s regime if fiercy unamerican, it’s general population is not. However, if we kill thousands (or even hundreds of thousands) of civilians in an air campaign, that will change.

While it is true that Iran almost certainly does not have the resources to directly strike the US in return, they do have substantial assets in hot spots all over the region. So in addition to killing the pro democracy movement in Iran and extending the ganster regime’s reign by decades, we will also likely unleash decades of deadly campaigns against American interests around the world.

Frankly, I am still at a loss as to how overturning a secular Sunni strongman in a country with a Shia majority could have ever been anything but a huge gain in Iranian power, but we still seem to be intent on attacking the consequences of our mistakes instead of forging a viable international coallition to hold the Iranians in check and under pressure.
 
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