Detachment and disconnection: same thing?

[Contra_Mundum_1]

In the last few years I have been growing in faith and getting closer to God. A part of this journey has been a slowly increasing feeling of detachment. As Catholics we believe that detachment is a positive thing that allows us to love things according to their objective value and purpose. I feel detached from a number of things: desire for sucess in financial terms, codependency with people, and the secular culture generally, to name a few as an example. My faith has given me a sense of peace and I try to do God’s will to the best of my ability. One thing that I struggle with is anger I feel towards the state of the world. I hate the growing secularism in the west and the decline of Christianity. I fear for my children and worry about them losing their way and abandoning their faith when they get older. I pray about this and believe that God will take care of us and I put everything in His hands. But still, these feelings of fear haunt me and I sometimes struggle with keeping things in perspective.

My husband, who is not Catholic and is quite comfortable in his agnosticism, is worried about me. He told me yesterday that he fears that my feelings of antagonism against the world will lead me to depression. He thinks I am ‘disconnected’. He told me that I need to find a way to cope with living in this world.

I was really surprised by his words because I have found a way to cope with living in this world: God. I’ve never suffered from depression (but I had problems with anxiety at one point in my life)and I don’t think I am going in that direction, despite my spells of worry. Am I ‘disconnected’? What does that mean? Is this a case of a non-believer not understanding what it means to be a Christian and seeing healthy detachment as something negative?

Have you been in a situation where your loved ones were concerned about you growing closer to God and as a consequence growing detached from the world? What did you say to them? How to explain this to someone who is open to the idea of God but not really prepared to take it further and get to know Him?

Thank you for your thoughts and advice.

 

[LB_in_TX]

In the last few years I have been growing in faith and getting closer to God. A part of this journey has been a slowly increasing feeling of detachment. As Catholics we believe that detachment is a positive thing that allows us to love things according to their objective value and purpose. I feel detached from a number of things: desire for sucess in financial terms, codependency with people, and the secular culture generally, to name a few as an example. My faith has given me a sense of peace and I try to do God’s will to the best of my ability. One thing that I struggle with is anger I feel towards the state of the world. I hate the growing secularism in the west and the decline of Christianity. I fear for my children and worry about them losing their way and abandoning their faith when they get older. I pray about this and believe that God will take care of us and I put everything in His hands. But still, these feelings of fear haunt me and I sometimes struggle with keeping things in perspective.

I too have had similar feelings as I have gotten closer to God, though rather than anger for me it is more of a sorrow for the state of the world.

My wife was a nonCatholic and could not understand the overall change in me as I got closer to God, even using it against me many times. Though everything seems as if it was a past life with the loss of my wife, stepchildren (non-Christian), and material things; what is the hardest thing to deal with is their sudden change in attitude for me. One stepson, I fear because of my faith has stopped talking to me because he did not want me to influence my grandsons, that I had basically raised with my wife while he was indulging his childish ways of lust, drugs, and alcohol.

However my faith keeps growing, and I know that I am not alone as God is always with me.

God Bless!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Thank you for your reply LB. I’m sorry your family turned against you. That must have been so hard.

This is what I fear: that my husband and I will grow more and more apart. He probably feels a bit threatened by this change in me and wonders what happened to the person he married. I know this is common when people are not on the same page spiritually.

I am now also wondering if he is right. What if I do end up as he predicts? When does healthy and necessary detachment become a sort of isolation?

Unfortunately I don’t have an opportunity to get a spiritual director at the moment so am on my own in trying to figure this out.

 

[LB_in_TX]

Thank you for your reply LB. I’m sorry your family turned against you. That must have been so hard.

This is what I fear: that my husband and I will grow more and more apart. He probably feels a bit threatened by this change in me and wonders what happened to the person he married. I know this is common when people are not on the same page spiritually.

I am now also wondering if he is right. What if I do end up as he predicts? When does healthy and necessary detachment become a sort of isolation?

Unfortunately I don’t have an opportunity to get a spiritual director at the moment so am on my own in trying to figure this out.

If you let yourself believe he is right (besause the mind and suggestion can be powerful adversaries) you risk losing your family or God, do your best to balance your faith and family.

For me, I remember the apostles and what they gave up for Christ, but I truly believe you can have both God and family.

Find someway of talking to a priest, if not face to face then perhaps online. Perhaps asking your question in “Ask an Apologist” in the forum.

I will pray for you.

God Bless!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Detachment is not the same as disconnection.

Detachment as St. John of the Cross taught it, is not inordinately desiring things that do not move us closer to God.

This is not the same as being disconnected where a person ignores the world, people and things around them. Being disconnected is akin to apathy, which is an opposite of love.

A person who is detached, see’s a beautiful flower or holy picture and enjoys them for what they are, God’s gifts. However, they don’t raise these things to higher level of importance than what they are. These are temporal gifts which will pass away.

It’s the same with being with people. We don’t remove ourselves from the presence of other people because we don’t want to be around them, but instead, we do so in order that we learn how to be around them and love as Christ loves.

Jim

 

[mercytruth]

Detachment is not the same as disconnection.

Detachment as St. John of the Cross taught it, is not inordinately desiring things that do not move us closer to God.

This is not the same as being disconnected where a person ignores the world, people and things around them. Being disconnected is akin to apathy, which is an opposite of love.

A person who is detached, see’s a beautiful flower or holy picture and enjoys them for what they are, God’s gifts. However, they don’t raise these things to higher level of importance than what they are. These are temporal gifts which will pass away.

It’s the same with being with people. We don’t remove ourselves from the presence of other people because we don’t want to be around them, but instead, we do so in order that we learn how to be around them and love as Christ loves.

Jim

Well said, by the help of God’s Spirit and St. John of the Cross.

God’s peace.

Micah

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

It’s the same with being with people. We don’t remove ourselves from the presence of other people because we don’t want to be around them, but instead, we do so in order that we learn how to be around them and love as Christ loves.

Thank you Jim. This is beautifully said. Much to think about.

 

[mercytruth]

Detachment is not the same as disconnection.

Detachment as St. John of the Cross taught it, is not inordinately desiring things that do not move us closer to God.

This is not the same as being disconnected where a person ignores the world, people and things around them. Being disconnected is akin to apathy, which is an opposite of love.

A person who is detached, see’s a beautiful flower or holy picture and enjoys them for what they are, God’s gifts. However, they don’t raise these things to higher level of importance than what they are. These are temporal gifts which will pass away.

It’s the same with being with people. We don’t remove ourselves from the presence of other people because we don’t want to be around them, but instead, we do so in order that we learn how to be around them and love as Christ loves.

Jim

Though we do not remove ourselves from the presence of other people, we would detach ourselves from many of the same ‘entertainments’ that we formerly shared with our friends and family. This might be construed as ‘disconnectedness’, especially with one’s spouse as with regard to less interest in conjugal relations.

These are issues that can not be avoided, and I do know not if there are any answers apart from prayer, humility, and the love and wisdom of God.

God’s peace.

Micah

 

[mangy_dog]

In the last few years I have been growing in faith and getting closer to God. A part of this journey has been a slowly increasing feeling of detachment. As Catholics we believe that detachment is a positive thing that allows us to love things according to their objective value and purpose. I feel detached from a number of things: desire for sucess in financial terms, codependency with people, and the secular culture generally, to name a few as an example. My faith has given me a sense of peace and I try to do God’s will to the best of my ability. One thing that I struggle with is anger I feel towards the state of the world. I hate the growing secularism in the west and the decline of Christianity. I fear for my children and worry about them losing their way and abandoning their faith when they get older. I pray about this and believe that God will take care of us and I put everything in His hands. But still, these feelings of fear haunt me and I sometimes struggle with keeping things in perspective.

My husband, who is not Catholic and is quite comfortable in his agnosticism, is worried about me. He told me yesterday that he fears that my feelings of antagonism against the world will lead me to depression. He thinks I am ‘disconnected’. He told me that I need to find a way to cope with living in this world.

I was really surprised by his words because I have found a way to cope with living in this world: God. I’ve never suffered from depression (but I had problems with anxiety at one point in my life)and I don’t think I am going in that direction, despite my spells of worry. Am I ‘disconnected’? What does that mean? Is this a case of a non-believer not understanding what it means to be a Christian and seeing healthy detachment as something negative?

Have you been in a situation where your loved ones were concerned about you growing closer to God and as a consequence growing detached from the world? What did you say to them? How to explain this to someone who is open to the idea of God but not really prepared to take it further and get to know Him?

Thank you for your thoughts and advice.

I could have written this thread because it describes me almost exactly…except the agnosctic spouse - my wife is very devout catholic.

If you are like me- you need to keep plugging along: Life of prayer and life of the spirit. Do the basic catholic things really, really well.
Pray the Rosary everyday. Go to Confession at least once a month. Never miss Sunday mass.

I worry about the same things that you worry about and much more. Sometimes knowledge of world and national affairs, as well as spiritual affairs is a burden. But we bear it with prayer and trust in that God is in control.

One sin that I always find myself confessing is that I put “all these matters in the Lord’s hands” then…I take them right back because I think He’s too slow or I end up worrying again. Usually about things I can’t change except to pray.

That’s our job- to pray. With a life of prayer and a life of the spirit we can detach but, we can’t be disconnected…I know you know what I mean.

Aquiesce anima mea, in Deus salus mea.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

mercytruth

Though we do not remove ourselves from the presence of other people, we would detach ourselves from many of the same ‘entertainments’ that we formerly shared with our friends and family. This might be construed as ‘disconnectedness’, especially with one’s spouse as with regard to less interest in conjugal relations.

Unless the form of entertainment is immoral, there is no need to disconnect from them. Detachment doesn’t mean not enjoying them, but keeping them in their proper place. They are not the means to the end, which is union with Christ.

Jim

 

[TrueLight]

I really like the way Jim compared detachment and disconnection.

I’m going to use the example of one’s job/career to show how I view the difference. How can one be attached, detached or disconnected from one’s job?

**
Attachment**

• To be attached to one’s job might mean that one defines oneself by the job.
• I am a doctor, or an actress, or a mechanic.
• I don’t know what I would do with myself without that job.
• I must put in lots of hours even to the detriment of family time so that I can make lots of money.
• If I were to lose my job, I would spiral down into depression.

I personally believe, attachment can lead to depression when one loses what one is attached to.

Disconnection

• I could care less whether I have this job or not.
• I will do the minimum that is necessary.
• I will come in late as long as I don’t get in trouble.
  -I will not take advantage of an opportunity at work that will help me to provide better for my family even if it doesn’t mean more stress.

Detachment

• I am thankful that God has given me a means to take care of my family.
• I will do my utmost best at my job so that I can be a good example of my Catholic faith.
• Family time is very important to me and I will not voluntarily take on a position which means more money, but also means I will hardly see my spouse and children.
• What I do for a living is incidental. It does not define me.
• If I lose this job, the Lord will provide.

 

[TrueLight]

My husband, who is not Catholic and is quite comfortable in his agnosticism, is worried about me. He told me yesterday that he fears that my feelings of antagonism against the world will lead me to depression. He thinks I am ‘disconnected’. He told me that I need to find a way to cope with living in this world.

In terms of your husband saying that he fears that you might become depressed, I think it is important to listen to what he is really saying.

He might be saying that you are changing a lot and he is not sure how to deal with that. He might be saying that you are a sour face.

I believe that a danger when one is beginning to practice detachment is not conveying the joy of the Gospel. Even though we see what is going on and even though we may spend hours in prayer and weeping for the state of the world and people’s souls, we need only do that in our prayer closet. God is still in control and we have to find a way to let that joy and reassurance shine through.

So as long as it is not sinful, be sure to still do some of the activities that you and your family have always done and just enjoy the moment for what it is: a time to spend time with and enjoy the family that God has provided to you.

 

[mercytruth]

mercytruth

Unless the form of entertainment is immoral, there is no need to disconnect from them. Detachment doesn’t mean not enjoying them, but keeping them in their proper place. They are not the means to the end, which is union with Christ.

Jim

Entertainment covers a broad spectrum in the US today. Is watching television a form of entertainment? If it is, is it immoral to watch commercial television? This is just one example where individuals depending on their level of detachment, and closeness with God may have differing viewpoints.

Then the question remains, how much of our time do we give to entertainment which is not immoral? Here too, this might vary with individuals depending of their detachment, and closeness with God.

Entertainment by its very nature is that which is pleasing to self, when we are called to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, body and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. If loving ourselves means giving ourselves some time for healthy entertainment then we have to individually know where to draw the line with ourselves, and with our family and friends.

(I could have deleted all of this, since True Light has stated it so well)

God’s peace

Micah

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

With a life of prayer and a life of the spirit we can detach but, we can’t be disconnected…I know you know what I mean.

Aquiesce anima mea, in Deus salus mea.

Yes, I understand.

It helps to know I am not alone in feeling like this.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

In terms of your husband saying that he fears that you might become depressed, I think it is important to listen to what he is really saying.

Your post was spot on. Yes, he thinks I am negative and that worries him. That is true to an extent: I am quite negative when we discuss politics and especially my favourite topic: the decline of the Western civilisation. However, I am not at home moping about. We do fun stuff as a family and I’m out and about a lot, spending time with other moms and their children. (I have two little ones and am a SAHM). I am still a fun person despite the increase in spiritual stuff. I think he is a bit scared by my spirituality and doesn’t know what to make of it. I am afraid that I will put him off Catholicism despite my best efforts to show him how great it is.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

mercytruth

Entertainment covers a broad spectrum in the US today. Is watching television a form of entertainment?

Yes, it’s entertainment, but it’s also where we inform ourselves, via news and documentaries.

If it is, is it immoral to watch commercial television?

Depends on the content of the program, but generally no, it’s not immoral to watch commercial television.

This is just one example where individuals depending on their level of detachment, and closeness with God may have differing viewpoints.

It’s not an example of differences, but a distortion of what detachment in the spiritual sense actually means. Disordered attachment means placing the object of attachment, above all else.

Then the question remains, how much of our time do we give to entertainment which is not immoral? Here too, this might vary with individuals depending of their detachment, and closeness with God.

It’s not necessarily immoral to give all of your time to entertainment. The lack of detachment isn’t immoral, but it’s a detriment to spiritual growth.

Entertainment by its very nature is that which is pleasing to self, when we are called to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, body and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves.

We’re also called to happiness, but we must also be grateful for the happiness which God gives us.

Entertainment is not immoral, a disordered attachment, to entertainment, that is, when it interferes with your responsibility to God, family and work, is disordered and not conducive toward spiritual growth.

If loving ourselves means giving ourselves some time for healthy entertainment then we have to individually know where to draw the line with ourselves, and with our family and friends.

We are called to love God and others. Loving oneself is placing self above others, but that’s not necessarily what enjoying entertainment in a healthy way employes.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

To bring something to the entertainment sub-thread I just want to say that I don’t watch TV because I find it boring (maybe I’ll watch a film now and then). However, I spend **a lot **of time on the internet - here on CAF and I follow a number of Catholic blogs. That keeps me informed and gives me a sense of fellowship that I desperately need, since I don’t know other Catholics here. I do wonder if I should spend less time doing this because I am most certainly very attached to you CAF people

 

[mercytruth]

mercytruth

Yes, it’s entertainment, but it’s also where we inform ourselves, via news and documentaries.

Depends on the content of the program, but generally no, it’s not immoral to watch commercial television.

It’s not an example of differences, but a distortion of what detachment in the spiritual sense actually means. Disordered attachment means placing the object of attachment, above all else.

It’s not necessarily immoral to give all of your time to entertainment. The lack of detachment isn’t immoral, but it’s a detriment to spiritual growth.

We’re also called to happiness, but we must also be grateful for the happiness which God gives us.

Entertainment is not immoral, a disordered attachment, to entertainment, that is, when it interferes with your responsibility to God, family and work, is disordered and not conducive toward spiritual growth.

We are called to love God and others. Loving oneself is placing self above others, but that’s not necessarily what enjoying entertainment in a healthy way employes.

Detachment, and not loving the things of this world may be where we are misunderstanding each other. St. John of the Cross says that we must die to our own memory which is the ‘vain hope’ of attaching our thoughts and memory to that which is the lust of the flesh, the lust of eyes, and pride of life. Our memory of the things of this world must die, so that we might receive the divine hope of our Christian Catholic faith

Now we can have a difference of opinion on what constitutes the pride of life, or even what constitutes the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes. We are to be separated from these things, rather than being detached from them.

I actually think detachment is more confined to God’s creation, while separation is confined to the things of this world which draw us away from God.

God’s peace

micah

 

[mercytruth]

To bring something to the entertainment sub-thread I just want to say that I don’t watch TV because I find it boring (maybe I’ll watch a film now and then). However, I spend **a lot **of time on the internet - here on CAF and I follow a number of Catholic blogs. That keeps me informed and gives me a sense of fellowship that I desperately need, since I don’t know other Catholics here. I do wonder if I should spend less time doing this because I am most certainly very attached to you CAF people

Having a sense of self-deprecating humor is great. St. John of the Cross was a good example of that.

micah

 

[JimR-OCDS]

mercytruth

St. John of the Cross says that we must die to our own memory which is the ‘vain hope’ of attaching our thoughts and memory to that which is the lust of the flesh, the lust of eyes, and pride of life. Our memory of the things of this world must die, so that we might receive the divine hope of our Christian Catholic faith

But St John is speaking about the disordered attachments of these things, which we must die to. But as we grow in Christ, the true beauty of these things, as designed by God, shows forth.

For instance. On a hot day when we become thirsty, the pleasure of the first sip of a cool glass of water, is not a disorder, but what God has given us. However, if the cool glass of water is seen as a god, as in pantheism, then it’s a disorder.

Same is with food. We can enjoy the flavor of a well cooked meal, without becoming attached to fancy foods to the point of being obsessed with them for the later is a disorder.

Now we can have a difference of opinion on what constitutes the pride of life, or even what constitutes the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes. We are to be separated from these things, rather than being detached from them.

Well the Church defines what lust of the flesh is, and this is a disorder in that it seeks to pleasure the flesh through immoral means. Pride too, is self-serving of self in putting a false image of oneself in order to impress others. It’s a disorder of the lower soul as a result of our fallen state.

But this has nothing to do with enjoying television for entertainment, or enjoying the company of other people.

I actually think detachment is more confined to God’s creation, while separation is confined to the things of this world which draw us away from God.

Detachment is separating from the appetites which satisfies the self in place of loving God. To love the beauty of a sunset because it gives glory to God, is not a disorder, but a realization of God’s power and magnificence.

When I was discerning the deaconate, the vocation directer emphasizes the priorities the Church places on deacons. God, family, job and Church, were the directed order of our priorities. Those who put Church before family, are not living as God intended them to live, for they were called first to be husband/wives and then parents.

I’ve seen many people in my life, who ended up divorced because they put their religion ahead of their spouses and families. They’re faith eventually was shattered as a result.

Jim