Detachment... Holy Indifference

[TimothyH]

Detachment… Holy indifference… Living in the world, and in the reality that it is temporary, and that our ultimate destiny is not of this world.

Detachment from created things - cars, homes and money. But what about a holy detachment from evil around you? What about detachment from the trials and troubles of life? What if you were told that you would die soon? How detached would you be from your own life?

*It gives great glory to God for a person to live in this world using and appreciating the good things of this life without care, without anxiety, and without inordinate passion. In order to know and love god through His gifts, we have to use them as if we used them not (1 Corintians 7:31) - and yet we have to use them. For to use things as if we used them not means to use them without selfishness, without fear, without afterthought, and with perfect gratitude and confidence and love of God. All inordinate concern over the material side of life was repoved by Christ when He said; “What one of you, by taking thought, can add to his stature one cubit?” (Matthew 6:27) But we cannot use created things without anxiety unless we are detached from them. At the same time, we become detached from the by using them sparingly - and yet without anxiety.

• Thomas Merton, No Man is an Island, *

How do you live detachment? Or is detachment a result, and not a means to a result? What does detachment mean to you?

***I know indeed how to live in humble circumstances; I know also how to live with abundance. In every circumstance and in all things I have learned the secret of being well fed and of going hungry, of living in abundance and of being in need. I have the strength for everything through him who empowers me.(*Philippians 4:12-13)

How does one live in the world, but not of the world?

-Tim-

 

[TrueLight]

Timothy,

Thanks so much for starting this thread.

It’s not an easy thing to be detached from worldly things.

I either read or heard a sermon that talked about little ways you can detach yourself from things by using small penances.

For example if you love ice cream, refuse it once in a while. Every now and then miss your favorite show.

My impression is that detachment comes from prayer of course, but also from practicing self-denial.

I am really interested in learning more!

 

[TrueLight]

One question I have is how do you practice detachment without looking disengaged. What is the difference between the two.

It is one thing not to be detached from your job. It’s another to look like you could care less whether God takes it away or not.

 

[JReducation]

If you really want to understand detachment and holy indifference, go to the three great masters on this subject: Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila and Teresa of Calcutta. Everything that every other saint has said about these virtues is summarized in the lives and writings of these three heroes.

Detachment is the ability to use the things of this world to care for the needs of humanity. The key word here is “need”. All too often, we operate not out of need, but out of desire. We want this or that, whether we need it or not. The object of our desire may be very neutral. However, when we desire it, without needing it, it can become a goal in our lives. Suddenly, it becomes deadly to the soul. The only goal of the soul should be to posses Christ’s cross.

Another consideration in our quest for sanctity is charity. Mother Teresa, more than any other saint embodies this lesson. The purpose of material goods is service. This is service to family and to others. God graces us with many gifts: spiritual, cultural, psychological, and material. Those gifts have a purpose. They are tools. We use them in order to bring the love of Christ to others and to experience the love of Christ in our lives. Again, they are not an end for our pleasure and satisfaction. There is nothing wrong with the material. To say so would be heresy.

What is right or wrong is how we use the material world. When our use of material goods fails to produce great acts of charity, there is something very wrong. We may not be using them correctly. One can say that detachment is the opposite of entitlement. We are not entitled to material goods. Material goods are gifts from God. No one is entitled to a gift. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be a gift. On the other hand, no one has the right to contracept God’s gifts. We have no right to prevent others from enjoying the material gifts that God gives to all humanity. God’s gifts are for all. Power and wealth are a means that God gives us to empower us to secure that all people have access to the gifts that he gave to the world for the good of humanity. When power and wealth are used for one’s benefit, with no regard for the welfare of the other, it becomes wasted grace.

Holy Indifference flows from detachment. We detach from the material things and from other things that are not material. A wonderful example is our constant preoccupation with the sins of others. It is one thing to be attached to virtue. It is another to be preoccupied about what everyone else is doing or not doing. The detached person begins with himself.

Look at Francis, Teresa and Teresa. They were not ignorant of the sins and failings of the world around them. Only Paul was stronger in calling the world to penance and conversion than Francis of Assisi. He was so strong, that men and women from any faiths look to him as a model of virtue more than 800 years later. The Church looks at him as the Mirror of Perfection, the Perfect Christian, the Seraphic Father. These titles tell you how much he influenced the Church and those outside the Church.

However, it is interesting to observe in his life, writings and the formation of his sons and daughters, he never said a single word about the sins of people around him. He spoke of sins, not about people. He spoke of virtues, not about people. He never mentioned, this bishop, that priest, this king, that layman or this diocese. He was silent on these subjects. He spoke about the need for prayer, penance, fidelity, obedience, poverty, charity, hope, conversion. He spoke about God and how much God loves and deserves to be loved.

Teresa of Avila dovetailed on St. Francis. She was very influenced by Franciscan detachment, after reading The Third Spiritual Alphabet by the Franciscan, Francisco of Osuna and being guided by another Franciscan saint, Peter of Alcantara. She modeled a detachment that expressed itself in Holy Indifference. It’s interesting. Teresa is a contemporary of the Protestant Reformation. She mentions the Lutherans and the Lutheran Reform as a fact of life in one of her historical writings. They existed. That’s as far as she went.

However, everything that she wrote and taught corrected the errors of Protestantism, without ever mentioning them by name. She does not enter into an argument with Protestantism, heresy, or with the corrupt clergy of her time. Even as she goes about reforming the Carmelites in Spain, she never makes a single statement such as, “They’re wrong because . . .” You don’t hear that from her. Whatever they did that was right or wrong was not as important to her as it was to teach the right thing to do, the right way to live the Gospel life, the right way to follow the spirit of Carmel. She almost gives the impression that she doesn’t have a clue what is happening in the world around her. Yet, when we read her writings, each paragraph speaks to an issue of her time and of all time.

Bl. Mother Teresa is the modern embodiment of Francis of Assisi and Teresa of Avila. She brings together material detachment with the proper use of material goods for the service of the Church and the world. She brings Christ to the world, while appearing to be indifferent to the heresy, paganism, and inhumanity around her. We know that she was not indifferent. She was the greatest advocate of the unborn and those who are voiceless. She was the advocate of the poor. She promoted Eucharistic devotion, prayer, and contemplation. However, she never mentions any person or group by name. She taught her sons and daughters how to live the Gospel and to work on their conversion in a way that is so public that others learn without them having to say much. This is the essence of holy indifference. It is focusing on salvation of one’s soul and the souls of others, without engaging in arguments and battles, or match and counter match.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

Hi Brother JR,

Detachment is the ability to use the things of this world to care for the needs of humanity.

That’s interesting. Is that not more charity then detachment?

Another consideration in our quest for sanctity is charity. Mother Teresa, more than any other saint embodies this lesson. The purpose of material goods is service.This is service to family and to others.

The purpose of material goods is service. Hmm.

I really need to ingest, digest, chew upon slowly, before swallowing. Just viewing life that way brings about detachment.

Is it detachment that causes someone to use their material goods in service or is it the service that helps with the detachment?

When power and wealth are used for one’s benefit, with no regard for the welfare of the other, it becomes wasted grace.

Wow. Sobering.

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Hi Brother JR,

That’s interesting. Is that not more charity then detachment?

Did you read what Fr. Vincent recently posted on charity?

Charity should be the ultimate goal of every choice. Man is called to the perfection of charity. Detachment from material things for the sake of detachment is Gnosticism, which hated the material. That’s not what Evangelical Detachment is about.

Scripture reminds us that “Christ did not deem equality with God as something to be grasped at, but rather he emptied himself and took the form of a slave.”

The Eternal Logos detaches himself in order to serve. That’s what slaves do. Christ models detachment for us. That’s why I pointed you toward Francis, Teresa and Teresa. If you put them together, even if you did not have the Gospels, you can reconstruct the Gospel by ovserving their lives. They imitated Christ to perfection. They imitated Chrit’s detachment and service.

The purpose of material goods is service. Hmm.

This is revealed to us from the OT through the NT. I’ll give you two examples. In the OT we see Joseph helping Egypt. What happened? They had lean years and fat years. They gathered during times of prosperity so that they would be able to feed their people during times of hardship. They did not gather for the sake of the royal house, but for the benefit of the people. When Israel arrives in Egypt, the goods that Egypt had gathered were shared with Israel. Joseph does not turn them away, because they had sold him into slavery. In fact, Joseph uses a line that would be used by St. Francis of Assisi some 3,000 years later, “I am . . . your brother.”

He could have hidden his identity from them and turned them away. But he didn’t. He receives them, shares the goods that they had stored with those who had done him harm, because he is their brother. A brother is one who serves. Francis of Assisi would later found his order on the principle of brotherhood. His sons and daughters were those who served.

Let’s look at an example from the NT. In the Book of Acts we are told that the people brought what they had and laid it at the feet of the apostles to be distributed among the poor so that everyone was provided for. Again, we see material goods being put at the service of others.

OK, I said two examples, but I have to throw in my favorite story from the Gospels, about this same subject: detachment and service. The crowd was hungry and there were only a few fishes and loaves of bread. The young boy probably brought them for his lunch. He detaches from them. The scriptures do not tell us that he was forced to surrender them to the Apostles. They didn’t beat him up for them. They approached Christ and informed him that there was a boy with fish and bread. The boy surrendered them, because Christ needed them. Christ did not need the fish and bread for himself, but to feed those who were hungry. Christ needed his “wealth” for the good of others. What a beautiful example of total detachment. We put what we have in Christ’s hands and Christ multiplies it in the service of others.

I really need to ingest, digest, chew upon slowly, before swallowing. Just viewing life that way brings about detachment.

There is no other way to live the Gospel Life. We cannot live the Gospel Life and cling to that which has been freely given to us as if we were its final destiny. The final destiny of all our material blessings is the hand of Christ who will distribute it to those in need, as he did with the fishes and the loaves.

Is it detachment that causes someone to use their material goods in service or is it the service that helps with the detachment?

Detachment = virtue
Service = charity

Virtue produces great acts of charity.

Virtue and charity are inseparable. If it does not produce charity, it is not virtue. If it’s not virtue, it will not produce charity.

To better understand the relationship between virtue and charity lived out perfectly, we need to look at Mary. She is the mother who gives up what every mother would die for. Instead of dying to protect her son, she detaches. She freely accepts his crucifixion out of pure love for God and those whom God loves. She takes on God’s charity as her own, thus sharing in God’s parental love. She becomes our mother.

Her perfect detachment leads to the perfect act of charity, which is the cross. Mother and son are united in their detachment. Their detachment culminated in the perfect act of charity that redeemed mankind.

Wow. Sobering.

I always pray that God withhold his grace, rather than allow me to waste his grace.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[choliks]

If you really want to understand detachment and holy indifference, go to the three great masters on this subject: Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila and Teresa of Calcutta. ** Everything that every other saint has said about these virtues is summarized in the lives and writings of these three heroes. **

**Detachment is the ability to use the things of this world to care for the needs of humanity. **The key word here is ìneedî. All too often, we operate not out of need, but out of desire. We want this or that, whether we need it or not. The object of our desire may be very neutral. However, when we desire it, without needing it, it can become a goal in our lives. Suddenly, it becomes deadly to the soul. The only goal of the soul should be to posses Christís cross.

St. Ignatius affirms this. In the “Principle and Foundation” offered at the beginning of the Spiritual Exercises, the person [going through the exercises] is reminded that material things are “created to help human beings in pursuit of the end for which they created: to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by means of doing this to save their souls.” St. Ignatius tells us “to use these things to the extent that they help us toward our end, and free ourselves from them to the extent that they hinder us from it.”

Joe Koczera, SJ wrote in his blog:
“…detachment should be understood as a well-ordered love and careful stewardship of God’s gifts. This means being grateful for what we have, but it also means asking challenging questions about how our use of material things brings us closer to (or drives us further away from) the One who created us in and for love. We should not strive for a kind of indifference that allows us to capriciously cast our possessions away in the false belief that they keep us from being better disciples. On the contrary, we should ask what sort of difference doing with or without something makes for our relationship with God. If we can answer these questions in a prayerful confidence that brings us a sense of peace, I would submit that we have learned something about the true meaning of detachment. AMDG.”

 

[TrueLight]

Did you read what Fr. Vincent recently posted on charity?

No…

I always pray that God withhold his grace, rather than allow me to waste his grace.

I don’t think I’m ready to pray that prayer yet, but I’ll get there.

." St. Ignatius tells us “to use these things to the extent that they help us toward our end, and free ourselves from them to the extent that they hinder us from it.”

There’s a long thread on the apologetics/morality forum about whether leisure time is sinful or not.

I guess what’s hard is developing the mindfulness necessary – fine tuning our spiritual radar so that we are able to see what sort of things hinder us.

Joe Koczera, SJ wrote in his blog:
… On the contrary, we should ask what sort of difference doing with or without something makes for our relationship with God. If we can answer these questions in a prayerful confidence that brings us a sense of peace, I would submit that we have learned something about the true meaning of detachment. AMDG."[/INDENT]

Everything in prayer and supplication.

 

[JReducation]

St. Ignatius affirms this. In the “Principle and Foundation” offered at the beginning of the Spiritual Exercises, the person [going through the exercises] is reminded that material things are “created to help human beings in pursuit of the end for which they created: to praise, reverence, and serve God our Lord, and by means of doing this to save their souls.” St. Ignatius tells us “to use these things to the extent that they help us toward our end, and free ourselves from them to the extent that they hinder us from it.”

Joe Koczera, SJ wrote in his blog:
“…detachment should be understood as a well-ordered love and careful stewardship of God’s gifts. This means being grateful for what we have, but it also means asking challenging questions about how our use of material things brings us closer to (or drives us further away from) the One who created us in and for love. We should not strive for a kind of indifference that allows us to capriciously cast our possessions away in the false belief that they keep us from being better disciples. On the contrary, we should ask what sort of difference doing with or without something makes for our relationship with God. If we can answer these questions in a prayerful confidence that brings us a sense of peace, I would submit that we have learned something about the true meaning of detachment. AMDG.”

Observe what I said before. If you take what Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila and Teresa of Calcutta teach us about detachment, it sums up everything that every other saint has said. Every saint had a piece of it.

If one observes very carefully, Ignatius is describing the very thing that Francis of Assisi had introduced into the Church about 300 years before him. Ignatius and the Jesuits being the thinkers and teachers, put it into words. A few years later, Teresa of Avila would come along and explain it in theological terms. Later, Mother Teresa would come along and show it to us within the context of modern history.

Ignatius remind us that us that material things are good. Francis had already given us an entire treatise the on the goodness of creation in the Canticle of Brother Sun. Ignatius tells us that created things are a means to a holy end or holy purpose. As he would often say, “For the greater glory and honor of God.” Francis has shown us what this looked like when he gave away his material posessions to the poor in order to conform to Christ Crucified. There was the time when he gave away the missal to be sold to buy food for the poor, leaving the brothers without the tools to celebrate mass. However, in the process, he gave his brothers a lesson on charity that would later help to save their souls and many others.

Teresa of Avila would later come along and explain that the soul must detach from everything that is not God and does not lead us to God and her writings, The Way of Perfection, she would show us step by step what happens to inside the soul as we become detached. Francis does it. Ignatius explains its purpose and Teresa shows its effects on the soul. Centuries later, Mother Teresa would show us the need for ongoing detachment. In between you have other saints and spiritual masters who would take what Francis, Teresa and Teresa embodied and try to put it into words and concrete forms that would be comprehensible to the people of their time. Among them were such great men and women as: Vincent de Paul, Louise de Marillac, Jane Francis de Chantal, Therese of the Child Jesus, Giana Molla, Maximilian Kolbe, Maria Goretti, Dominic Savio, Elizabeth Ann Seton, John Paul II and many others.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[choliks]

I definitely agree Bro. JR. If we are to achieve at least a fraction of what the Saints and spiritual masters have done or lived, perhaps learning detachment (slowly if necessary) is essential.

 

[Sirach2]

Reading between the lines, I believe St. Paul knew well what holy indifference is. It takes much discipline to arrive at being content with our life situation. St. John of the Cross teaches that we arrive by a way of negation, mortifying our inordinate desires and bringing them into rest, submission and finally, content. I believe that when excess desires that trigger our joys and fears are brought to this rest, we finally use all of creation in a spirit of thanksgiving, as Paul writes in the second scripture.

Phil. 4:11 Not that I say this because of need, for I have learned, in whatever situation I find myself, to be self-sufficient. I know indeed how to live in humble circumstances; I know also how to live with abundance. In every circumstance and in all things I have learned the secret of being well fed and of going hungry, of living in abundance and of being in need. I have the strength for everything through him who empowers me. Still, it was kind of you to share in my distress.

1 Thess. 5:12 In everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

 

[TimothyH]

Teresa of Avila would later come along and explain that the soul must detach from everything that is not God and does not lead us to God and her writings, The Way of Perfection, she would show us step by step what happens to inside the soul as we become detached. Francis does it. Ignatius explains its purpose and Teresa shows its effects on the soul. Centuries later, Mother Teresa would show us the need for ongoing detachment. In between you have other saints and spiritual masters who would take what Francis, Teresa and Teresa embodied and try to put it into words and concrete forms that would be comprehensible to the people of their time. Among them were such great men and women as: Vincent de Paul, Louise de Marillac, Jane Francis de Chantal, Therese of the Child Jesus, Giana Molla, Maximilian Kolbe, Maria Goretti, Dominic Savio, Elizabeth Ann Seton, John Paul II and many others.

Is is possible for us? I mean ordinary people who raise children and hold ordinary jobs?

There seems like so much pressure from society to conform.

Christimas is coming and I’m having a hard time right now, the yearly struggle against the world telling me that I"m not a good father to my children unless I get them the correct iPhone comes earlier and earlier each year.

-Tim-

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Reading between the lines, I believe St. Paul knew well what holy indifference is. It takes much discipline to arrive at being content with our life situation. St. John of the Cross teaches that we arrive by a way of negation, mortifying our inordinate desires and bringing them into rest, submission and finally, content. I believe that when excess desires that trigger our joys and fears are brought to this rest, we finally use all of creation in a spirit of thanksgiving, as Paul writes in the second scripture.

I have just begun my first year of formation as a Secular Discalced Carmelite. We are reading Union with God: According to St. John of the Cross by Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalen, OCD. Chapter 3 was on renunciation (AKA spoliation, detachment, mortification) at first glance VERY scary stuff, but on reflection it is merely loving and desiring all things to the honor and glory of God. Getting to that point looks to be a very long and very slow journey

 

[TrueLight]

I have just begun my first year of formation as a Secular Discalced Carmelite. We are reading Union with God: According to St. John of the Cross by Fr. Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalen, OCD. Chapter 3 was on renunciation (AKA spoliation, detachment, mortification) at first glance VERY scary stuff, but on reflection it is merely loving and desiring all things to the honor and glory of God. Getting to that point looks to be a very long and very slow journey

Hi Marsha,

Can you share a little bit on something scary in the book?

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Hi Marsha,

Can you share a little bit on something scary in the book?

This is not from the book, but by the same author. Emphasis is mine. You can see how on first glance it might be unnerving, but on reflection merely growth in grace.

These are the golden rules proposed by St. John of the Cross for total detachment: The soul must always be inclined ‘not to the easiest thing, but to the hardest; not to the tastiest, but to the most insipid; not to the things that give the greatest pleasure, but to those that give the least; not to the restful things, but to the painful ones; not to consolation, but to desolation; not to more, but to less; not to the highest and dearest, but to the lowest and most despised; not to the desire for something, but to having no desires.’ In this way, we shall gradually become accustomed to subduing this inordinate desire for pleasure, which is at the base of all attachments. It is like going against a current; hence it is a hard tiring task which can be accomplished only by strength of will. We must oppose the inclinations of nature and make ourselves do what is repugnant to nature. This is, however, a sweet task for a soul in love with God; it knows that everything it refuses to self is given to God and that, when it has reached the point of renouncing self in everything – of selling everything – God Himself will give it the precious pearl of divine union.

Father Gabriel of St. Mary Magdalen, O.C. D.

Read more: rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2010/03/03/st-john-of-the-cross-principles-for-detachment#ixzz1diAbaaG3

 

[Sirach2]

This is St. John’s key direction in order to detach ourselves from the desires for pleasure. Funny thing, after we practice these for a good while, we arrive at detachment, but enter into a preference to seek those things that are more humble and mundane, rather than those that are sumptuous and sought after by the world. And these humble preferences bring us much peace and inner joy, if you can imagine such a blessing from negation.

 

[TrueLight]

I was reading in St Teresa’s Book of her Life (Chapter 20), about the rapture experience. This post Is not about raptures, but about something she said when it comes to detachment.
She says:

This favour also leaves a strange detachment, the nature of which I cannot possibly
describe, but I think I can say it is somewhat different – from that produced by
these purely spiritual favours, I mean; for, although these produce a complete
detachment of spirit, in this favour the Lord is pleased that it should be shared by
the very body and it will thus experience a new estrangement from things of earth,
which makes life much more distressing.

I have always wondered if practicing detachment can cause one to not get any pleasure out of living. There was a thread on CAF, where a poster pretty much said that one should not take pleasure in leisure activities. I’m pretty sure our Lord does not want us to live a life in monochrome, but want us to experience the beautiful color of the world he created.

What do you all think?

 

[Sirach2]

It is true that God can effect this detachment in our spirit through certain supernatural gifts in the higher mansions. These do cause a person, like Our Lord, to have “no place to lay one’s head” in things of earth. From what St. Teresa described, I understand that there are periods when this detachment causes deep interior pain, since the person longs for God and cannot enter that joy, nor do earthly joys bring satisfaction. Kinda like limbo - neither here, nor there, but suspended in the middle.

I have always wondered if practicing detachment can cause one to not get any pleasure out of living.

I don’t think so, because the spirit is living in a higher realm of finding God everywhere, and can direct its whole being to God through all of its actions. This is the meaning, I think, of St. Paul’s ability to give thanks in ALL circumstances - good, bad, beautiful, mundane, etc. Its detachment enables it to find God in all of them.

 

[TrueLight]

I This is the meaning, I think, of St. Paul’s ability to give thanks in ALL circumstances - good, bad, beautiful, mundane, etc. It’s detachment enables it to find God in all of them.

 

[TimothyH]

This is not from the book, but by the same author. Emphasis is mine. You can see how on first glance it might be unnerving, but on reflection merely growth in grace.

These are the golden rules proposed by St. John of the Cross for total detachment: The soul must always be inclined ‘not to the easiest thing, but to the hardest; not to the tastiest, but to the most insipid; not to the things that give the greatest pleasure, but to those that give the least; not to the restful things, but to the painful ones; not to consolation, but to desolation; not to more, but to less; not to the highest and dearest, but to the lowest and most despised; not to the desire for something, but to having no desires.’ In this way, we shall gradually become accustomed to subduing this inordinate desire for pleasure, which is at the base of all attachments. It is like going against a current; hence it is a hard tiring task which can be accomplished only by strength of will. We must oppose the inclinations of nature and make ourselves do what is repugnant to nature.

There is something which I try to keep in perspective here, and that is the fact that I am not St John of the Cross, St. Therese of Availia, nor some great mystic who has spent a lifetime in spiritual persuits. Many of these were conscrated religious in communities with brothers and sisters who cared for each other and superiors who watched over them. Many of us don’t have the luxury of even a spiritual director, and so much of what these great saints practice, in the hands of an inexperienced lay person without guidance, can be very dangerous.

I have discussed these things with a novice director at a Cistercian monastary, and he sternly cautioned me against doing violence to my body. I read with great interest this passage by Thomas Merton;

If my soul silences my flesh by an act of violence, my flesh will take revenge on my soul, secretly infecting it with a spirit of revenge. Bitterness and bad temper are the flowers of an asceticism that has punished only the body. (No Man Is an Island)

As the Cistercian brother put it, “It is a process of subtraction, not of subjection.” Through prayer and God’s grace, we can be molded into the likenes of Christ, rather than beaten into the likeness of Christ. God will slowly remove our faults, leaving only good.

Many hear a line like, “We must oppose the inclinations of nature and make ourselves do what is repugnant to nature” and try to effect radical and immediate change by doing voilence to themselves, and then they wonder why they are miserable. Frequent Mass and confession, a life of prayer, prayer, prayer, forgiving others, and the grace that comes from these, I think, are prerequisites. If one has habitual or grave sin in their life, they must root that out first. It is unnerving, and many take it to heart without the proper preparation or guidance and without much patience.

Marsha, I’m glad you are under a director, in formation, and getting guidance. I am not, and so I am very wary of my own ability to change violently without God’s grace acting in my life first.

But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given you besides. (Matthew 6:33)

I hope my comments make sense.

-Tim-