Detachment vs Indifference

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In the lives of the saints, there is a lot of emphasis on “detachment”; detachment from earthly things, detachment from your will, detachment from people, etc.

The thing I don’t get is that whenever I try to figure out the art of “detachment”, it just leads to my mind wanting to feel indifferent and uncaring towards the things I love. Then, when I try to love the people and the work I do in my life, even when I do see them as a gift from God, it ends with me feeling like maybe I shouldn’t feel so strongly about them. I mean, I go through this thought progression…

If I try to detach myself from a person, my mind thinks I have to stop caring. If I try to feel less attached to my plans in life, I feel I should work towards my goals less or work less passionately towards that thing.

If I exercise love for any person or passion for any dream, there is automatically going to be a feeling of attachment in one way or another, which leads to me thinking I shouldn’t care…but when I don’t care, then I don’t have the motivation to pursue said dream or exercise love towards my neighbor.

I don’t understand. If one feels love for anything, love of ANY level, isn’t there going to be SOME sort of attachment towards whatever it is you love? Doesn’t some feeling of attachment come with most occasions of loving something/someone?

Or another example: If you feel attached to God, and he wants me to love my neighbor, then how do I do that if I don’t care about them or I go through this loop of indifference and trying to figure out “detachment”? It almost feels like a paradox sometimes.

Thanks in advance 🙂
 
Detachment doesn’t mean you stop caring or thinking about something. It’s about focusing on the higher things.
It means it no longer consumes or controls you, It is no longer a “must-have”…like posting on CAF 24/7…😃

I’m trying to cut back. :o
 
Modern Catholic Dictionary:

DETACHMENT. In asceticism the withholding of undue affection for creatures for the sake of the Creator. When mortal sin is involved, detachment is imperative for salvation. Detachment from creatures that are an obstacle to complete service of God is a normal condition for growth in holiness.

INDIFFERENCE. The state of not being determined to act or not act, to act in one way rather than another. Among persons, active indifference is the ability to determine oneself to a given course of action; passive indifference is the capacity to be moved or determined by someone else. In ascetical theology, indifference is the state of being freed from inordinate attachments or desires that would keep a person from total dedication to God. It is internal liberty that enables the soul to give itself unreservedly to follow Christ.
 
I struggle with this as well.

I am not sure, but it would seem the saints had strong desires for God’s service and the salvation of souls. I remember St. Therese of Lisieux saying she had a desire so strong she would be unable to be happy in heaven if it were not fulfilled (presumably regarding souls). St. Paul said he would rather be cut off from Christ than continue to see the Israelites resist God. I wouldn’t say either of these things, but there may be occasions when God does place a dream for a vocation / ministry / something of his glory that he intends to fulfill.

In this case, all I can do is surrender it to God as an act of my will … give it back to him and ask him to fulfill the desire or remove it. Other disagree that this is the right way to pray, but it seems to help me.
 
roseproject said:
In the lives of the saints, there is a lot of emphasis on “detachment”; detachment from earthly things, detachment from your will, detachment from people, etc.

The thing I don’t get is that whenever I try to figure out the art of “detachment”, it just leads to my mind wanting to feel indifferent and uncaring towards the things I love. Then, when I try to love the people and the work I do in my life, even when I do see them as a gift from God, it ends with me feeling like maybe I shouldn’t feel so strongly about them. I mean, I go through this thought progression…

If I try to detach myself from a person, my mind thinks I have to stop caring. If I try to feel less attached to my plans in life, I feel I should work towards my goals less or work less passionately towards that thing.

If I exercise love for any person or passion for any dream, there is automatically going to be a feeling of attachment in one way or another, which leads to me thinking I shouldn’t care…but when I don’t care, then I don’t have the motivation to pursue said dream or exercise love towards my neighbor.

I don’t understand. If one feels love for anything, love of ANY level, isn’t there going to be SOME sort of attachment towards whatever it is you love? Doesn’t some feeling of attachment come with most occasions of loving something/someone?

Or another example: If you feel attached to God, and he wants me to love my neighbor, then how do I do that if I don’t care about them or I go through this loop of indifference and trying to figure out “detachment”? It almost feels like a paradox sometimes.

Thanks in advance 🙂
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You are quite correct to be concerned there with the ideas or impressions about detachment that were expressed there.

… see the next post…
 
To allow ourselves to be led by the Spirit of God, we need great compliance and adaptability, and we can acquire these little by little by practicing detachment. We should make an effort not to “hang on to” anything, either materially, or affectively, or even spiritually. The detachment we should aim for is not that of saying “to hell with all of it,” or of becoming indifferent to everything, or of practicing a sort of forced asceticism and stripping ourselves of everything that makes up our lives; that kind of detachment is not what our Lord normally asks for. But we need to keep our hearts in an attitude of detachment, maintaining a sort of freedom, a distance, an inner reserve, that will mean that if some particular thing, or habit, or relationship, or personal plan is taken from us, we don’t make a drama out of being deprived of it. Such detachment should be exercised in all aspects of our lives.

~ Fr. Jacques Philippe
  • In the School of the Holy Spirit, p.35
frjacquesphilippe.com/theme/detachment
 
Bookcat said:
To allow ourselves to be led by the Spirit of God, we need great compliance and adaptability, and we can acquire these little by little by practicing detachment. We should make an effort not to “hang on to” anything, either materially, or affectively, or even spiritually. The detachment we should aim for is not that of saying “to hell with all of it,” or of becoming indifferent to everything, or of practicing a sort of forced asceticism and stripping ourselves of everything that makes up our lives; that kind of detachment is not what our Lord normally asks for. But we need to keep our hearts in an attitude of detachment, maintaining a sort of freedom, a distance, an inner reserve, that will mean that if some particular thing, or habit, or relationship, or personal plan is taken from us, we don’t make a drama out of being deprived of it. Such detachment should be exercised in all aspects of our lives.

~ Fr. Jacques Philippe
  • In the School of the Holy Spirit, p.35
frjacquesphilippe.com/theme/detachment
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It’s just a hard balance, I guess. I mean, when God calls someone towards a certain goal and to work passionately towards a goal, you really do end up putting a great deal of yourself into the project. It’s hard to figure out how God would want a person to, at the same time, be invested in a project and put so much of your heart and soul into it while also being ok with giving it up at a moments notice or whatever. Getting that mentality of being ok with that makes my mind not want to care so much. Might be a protection strategy my mind has, maybe. Idk Being passionate while at the same time having a sense of detachment just feels somewhat contradictory to me, like one is forced to not care so much to achieve such a mentality. That’s how it feels to me, I guess 🤷
 
roseproject said:
It’s just a hard balance, I guess. I mean, when God calls someone towards a certain goal and to work passionately towards a goal, you really do end up putting a great deal of yourself into the project. It’s hard to figure out how God would want a person to, at the same time, be invested in a project and put so much of your heart and soul into it while also being ok with giving it up at a moments notice or whatever. Getting that mentality of being ok with that makes my mind not want to care so much. Might be a protection strategy my mind has, maybe. Idk Being passionate while at the same time having a sense of detachment just feels somewhat contradictory to me, like one is forced to not care so much to achieve such a mentality. That’s how it feels to me, I guess 🤷
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Your over thinking or over feeling this.

You do not have to sit there and think about project XYZ and try to envision that your asked to give it up…

Rather you pray the Our Father: “Thy will be done”

…and do not get into some mental imaginary trip - that is NOT what such is about.

Trying to imagine all sorts of “what if” events is not helpful nor what is meant. One does NOT have the grace here and now --but ONLY when confronted with that event.

One simply “seeks first the Kingdom of God”…“puts the hand to the plow and does not look back” (or imagine what storms may or may not come…).

(and read again -slowly - Fathers quote there).
 
Bookcat said:
To allow ourselves to be led by the Spirit of God, we need great compliance and adaptability, and we can acquire these little by little by practicing detachment. We should make an effort not to “hang on to” anything, either materially, or affectively, or even spiritually. The detachment we should aim for is not that of saying “to hell with all of it,” or of becoming indifferent to everything, or of practicing a sort of forced asceticism and stripping ourselves of everything that makes up our lives; that kind of detachment is not what our Lord normally asks for. But we need to keep our hearts in an attitude of detachment, maintaining a sort of freedom, a distance, an inner reserve, that will mean that if some particular thing, or habit, or relationship, or personal plan is taken from us, we don’t make a drama out of being deprived of it. Such detachment should be exercised in all aspects of our lives.

~ Fr. Jacques Philippe
  • In the School of the Holy Spirit, p.35
frjacquesphilippe.com/theme/detachment
Click to expand...
 
Bookcat said:
Your over thinking or over feeling this.

You do not have to sit there and think about project XYZ and try to envision that your asked to give it up…

Rather you pray the Our Father: “Thy will be done”

…and do not get into some mental imaginary trip - that is NOT what such is about.

Trying to imagine all sorts of “what if” events is not helpful nor what is meant. One does NOT have the grace here and now --but ONLY when confronted with that event.

One simply “seeks first the Kingdom of God”…“puts the hand to the plow and does not look back” (or imagine what storms may or may not come…).

(and read again -slowly - Fathers quote there).
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You said exactly what I was trying to say excellently. 🙂 Focusing on the possibility of not having something only makes you focus on it more! Give it to God and rest!
 
It’s easy for people to think they’re practicing detachment by withdrawing emotionally into themselves and closing their heart to others, but they’re not. Becoming indifferent is more likely a defense mechanism from being hurt as you suspect. I did this for years. Still do.

One thing I’ve tried to remind myself is that detachment is an action of the will. It’s different from our feelings. You can feel attachment and love while being detached.

It’s letting go and letting God without harboring resentment or desires of possessiveness. It’s choosing to move forward rather than be obsessed with what hurts you. The feelings are there, but you don’t let it rule your life. Detachment frees people and allows them to focus on what’s important and to do what is right within the situation they find themselves in.
 
Virga said:
One thing I’ve tried to remind myself is that detachment is an action of the will. It’s different from our feelings. You can feel attachment and love while being detached.
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Then, there’s also the fear that, if I allow myself to become passionately involved in a project like my artwork or stories or whatnot, that I begin to neglect my spirituality or my priorities become disordered. I always thought that my priorities were ok, but now I’m not sure. To quote another thread I started…

"A few months back (I’ve already mentioned this in another thread but just in case you haven’t read it, I’ll tell about it again), I was questioning whether or not we would remember our lives on earth after we die. The answer is yes…but while I was worrying about it, I realized that the possibility of forgetting my story and its characters made heaven feel less desirable for me. I decided to take time off of thinking about the story to re-order my priorities.

I’m still in this process."

I feel that, since I had this little “awakening” of sorts, it’s almost like my brain is trying to block out desires to pursue things with the passion that I did, with the hopes that I wont disappoint God or myself with the shift of focus, or until my priorities are perfectly aligned the right way. Even though I’m pretty sure God is calling me to this particular dream, to use it for His glory, I’m afraid of this tension between my spirituality and my dream. Is God trying to test my trust or who I love more or something? It’s a stressful feeling that I don’t know what to do with :confused:
 
Jesus tells us *seek first the Kingdom of God *and his rightiousness and all these things will be added…

Do that - and do not overly stress or overly think these things.

Such does not mean that we cannot do various things in our life! Our life and talents are gifts -we use them for good - and give them to God. If at some point we are asked to leave something for some other good…well lets not make a fuss and seek rather to do what we ought…but that also does not mean “fearing” that such will be asked. That is not the freedom he wishes for us. Authentic detachment brings freedom.
 
Your situation sounds a bit similar to mine.

I struggle with deciding whether to spend considerable time and effort on what I’d enjoy [which also happens to be working on stories and art, plus maybe programming :)] VS some other task God could be calling me to do. While I hope to use my projects in some way to also share my faith, I worry I’m using that as an excuse to focus on my own desires while neglecting responsibilities.

Unfortunately, I don’t have much practical advice as I’m in the same boat, but I realize I struggle with scrupulosity. If that’s true for you too, getting a spiritual director might help. Even if one intellectually understands detachment --or any other virtue for that matter, being scrupulous makes it very difficult for that person to identify how to put these virtues into practice in daily life.

But if you’re not scrupulous, I think an SD would be good for you anyway. Since you’re worried your projects might affect your spiritual life, your SD would presumably help you discern whether or not you need to devote more time to prayer or works of charity. A good SD can help you with staying on the right path.
 
Virga said:
Your situation sounds a bit similar to mine.

I struggle with deciding whether to spend considerable time and effort on what I’d enjoy [which also happens to be working on stories and art, plus maybe programming :)] VS some other task God could be calling me to do. While I hope to use my projects in some way to also share my faith, I worry I’m using that as an excuse to focus on my own desires while neglecting responsibilities.

Unfortunately, I don’t have much practical advice as I’m in the same boat, but I realize I struggle with scrupulosity. If that’s true for you too, getting a spiritual director might help. Even if one intellectually understands detachment --or any other virtue for that matter, being scrupulous makes it very difficult for that person to identify how to put these virtues into practice in daily life.

But if you’re not scrupulous, I think an SD would be good for you anyway. Since you’re worried your projects might affect your spiritual life, your SD would presumably help you discern whether or not you need to devote more time to prayer or works of charity. A good SD can help you with staying on the right path.
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Yeah, scrupulosity is quite a bit of an issue for me, too :o I have been thinking about finding a spiritual director for sometime, but I just don’t know who that would be. Part of it could be that I’m a rather introverted person, but as far as I know, just about all the people I know who might qualify are pretty busy most of the time. Then again, I haven’t really asked anyone yet :o One particular priest that I thought about is away in Africa right now and wont be back until October. The other people I know are mostly youth group leaders and the like. I wonder if family members count? I have an uncle who teaches RCIA.
 
roseproject said:
Yeah, scrupulosity is quite a bit of an issue
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I will re-post an older post of mine.

A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?

A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” who can direct them --and even give them some general principles* to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience).

Thus with their direction they can “dismiss scruples” (in the older language despise them) - “act against them” (agere contra).

Scruples are to be dismissed ~ not argued with.

To borrow and image from a Carthusian from centuries ago: Scruples *are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? * No one keeps walking.

Such ‘obedience’ to a regular confessor who knows of ones scruples (except in what is manifest sin - such as if he told them it was ok to murder someone or something certain like that) is key. Such is the age old practice.

Also counseling -(especially if one also has OCD) could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/)

Here was a not too long ago post from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.

ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/6-tools-for-the-scrupulous
 
roseproject said:
Yeah, scrupulosity is quite a bit of an issue for me, too :o I have been thinking about finding a spiritual director for sometime, but I just don’t know who that would be. Part of it could be that I’m a rather introverted person, but as far as I know, just about all the people I know who might qualify are pretty busy most of the time. Then again, I haven’t really asked anyone yet :o One particular priest that I thought about is away in Africa right now and wont be back until October. The other people I know are mostly youth group leaders and the like. I wonder if family members count? I have an uncle who teaches RCIA.
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The spiritual guide I had for the IGR* I went on in 2013 is also a lay spiritual director in her parish. She told me there were three groups of people she would not direct: anyone who works for the parish, anyone she considers a friend, and anyone she’s related to.

While I don’t think there are hard and and fast rules for this, in my opinion it would not be a good idea to have a family member as an SD. It’s too close, and one or both of you might hesitate to be totally candid in your spiritual direction relationship for fear of damaging the familial relationship you share.

*individually guided retreat
 
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