detachment

[JRKH]

that is why the Dalai Lama has recently come out saying “my life is empty,” literally. So this man pursued his religion and look where it has led him.

Could you provide a source for this please?

Thanks

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Actually, Catholicism has it’s own rich history of contemplative prayer.

(I use the term contemplation rather than meditation…meditation means something different in the Catholic context, and contemplation is more akin to the meditation found in Eastern religions.)

The writings of the mystics will help any Catholic develop a more contemplative approach to prayer. Except that our prayer is not focussed on emptying our mind of thoughts to no end other than emptiness…we empty our minds so that God may dwell in them.

 

[JRKH]

Happiness in life shouldn’t be unimportant because you will be a better person if you are happy. I know that I am more willing to help others and overall be a better person when I am happy.

I agree with this. However, as a caveat, it must be the right kind of happy.

Look at two very foundational principles in Christianity…Love your neighbor as yourself, and Treat others as you would wish to be treated.
Both of these things sound rather simple and yet they are deeply profound and difficult to embrace, understand and implement.

If happiness is found - and developed - within the bounds of Agape (Love) then it is good. If happiness strays outside of Agape…then it is not good.

Peace
James

 

[mymamamary]

vladtepesblog.com/?p=53019

He says that ethics in religion is no longer adequeate. Perhaps he isnt empty but quite a statement anyway…

I have yet to See Pappa Benedict make a statement like that.

 

[mommyof4]

From the book, Journey of a Soul, by Pope John XXIII

And what about all the other things which surround me? If God has given them to me they are extras: they have not been given to all, nor to all in equal rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/good-portion-picture1.jpgmeasure. Their purpose is to serve man in the attainment of his end. Any other use I may make of them is bad, upsets the order of nature and lands me in deplorable confusion. My attitude towards them must be governed by that golden rule of detachment for which the saints were so much admired. My own St. Francis de Sales speaks for them all. This detachment is not natural apathy, such as we find in certain characters, but supernatural virtue, detachment from everything, according to the will or pleasure of God; serenity, calm, nobility of soul, profound philosophy because of which, in aiming at loftier ideals, we no longer care for these base and worthless things, or we use them in whatever way they represent themselves as powerful wings to soar to God, to practice virtue and to make ourselves holy. Here I will mention a few practical examples, not without relevance to myself, which I must bear carefully in mind. The blessings of fortune, such as wealth – the Lord could have given them to me or withheld them – I had no right to them. He was pleased to withhold them. Why should I complain about this? Their absence is a means of my sanctification. So, blessed be the name of the Lord. At times dire necessity obliges me to contract small debts with the Bursar, and I dislike very much having to do this; it makes me feel wretched.But this is not right: God permits this to happen, and that is enough.
Mind and memory are gifts from God. Why should I lose heart if others have more of these gifts than I? Might I not have received even less than God has given me? Examination results and successes are things which, whether I will or no, mean a great deal to me. Very well, when I have done all that God has required of me, what does the good or bad result of my studies matter?
Sometimes, even in my practices of piety, an intense effort to preserve stillness in my soul and to enjoy all the sweetness of conversing with God is all of no avail: my heart feels as if it were made of stone, I have a steady stream of distractions and the Lord seems to have hidden himself. Sadness and discontent take hold of me and I become agitated. Away with all those weaknesses! We must keep cheerful and calm, in all circumstances. Indeed, we must rejoice, since that is God’s will. – Journal of a Soul, pg. 127-128

Read more: rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/10/02/csd-book-club-journal-of-a-soul-week-4-of-12#ixzz28QfgcgwQ

 

[interestedman]

vladtepesblog.com/?p=53019

He says that ethics in religion is no longer adequeate. Perhaps he isnt empty but quite a statement anyway…

I have yet to See Pappa Benedict make a statement like that.

What he meant is that saying that something is ethical or moral because Jesus, Buddha, God, or Muhammad is not adequite because not everyone agrees on the authority of these figures. If your morality is based on rational thinking that everyone can relate to, it would be a more accessible moral system.

 

[JRKH]

vladtepesblog.com/?p=53019

He says that ethics in religion is no longer adequeate. Perhaps he isnt empty but quite a statement anyway…

I have yet to See Pappa Benedict make a statement like that.

I did not note in that article the comment about his life being empty…

As for what IS mentioned in the Article…“ethics beyond religion”…This sounds very similar to the Christian idea of the “Law written on the heart” - that is - the internal law rather than the external.
In fact there is much discussion, in various forms, among Christians over this very matter.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

What he meant is that saying that something is ethical or moral because Jesus, Buddha, God, or Muhammad is not adequite because not everyone agrees on the authority of these figures. If your morality is based on rational thinking that everyone can relate to, it would be a more accessible moral system.

WOW - I did not see that in the article…did I miss something?

Or is that your “understanding” of what he was saying.

As yo might note from my post just above, I “understood” something rather different from what you understand.

Peace
James

 

[clem456]

how does one begin to detach ones self from worldly things?

The Sermon on the Mount is a great exposition of what detachment means.
I wonder the same thing all the time, how to accomplish detachment from various things.
Fasting and doing works of mercy are great ways to empty yourself. Both practices detach me from my comfort zone.

 

[mommyof4]

The Sermon on the Mount is a great exposition of what detachment means.
I wonder the same thing all the time, how to accomplish detachment from various things.
Fasting and doing works of mercy are great ways to empty yourself. Both practices detach me from my comfort zone.

Good answer. Thanks!

 

[interestedman]

WOW - I did not see that in the article…did I miss something?

Or is that your “understanding” of what he was saying.

As yo might note from my post just above, I “understood” something rather different from what you understand.

Peace
James

Oh, that was just my understanding of it. I have read a few books by the Dalai Lama and just assumed that is what he meant…to be honest it seemed clear to me. But I’m not positive.

 

[JRKH]

Oh, that was just my understanding of it. I have read a few books by the Dalai Lama and just assumed that is what he meant…to be honest it seemed clear to me. But I’m not positive.

Which demonstrates how our different perspectives can influence what we take away from a given statement.

Peace
James

 

[underacloud]

You might say that your willingness to help others is unrelated to your own happiness, but in the real world that just doesn’t work.

Maybe that’s what’s wrong with the “real world”!

Christianity is a religion with sacrifice at its very heart…it is based on an act of pure sacrificial love. Christ wasn’t “happy” as he hung on the cross for our sins. To those who don’t believe, it just seems like folly. I get that. But for those of us who do believe, we’d like to consider the issue of detachement from the Catholic perspective in this thread, not to explore what Buddhism has to offer us. Thanks.

 

[underacloud]

The Sermon on the Mount is a great exposition of what detachment means.
I wonder the same thing all the time, how to accomplish detachment from various things.
Fasting and doing works of mercy are great ways to empty yourself. Both practices detach me from my comfort zone.

I struggle with fasting, but maybe I’m just not doing it right. I find that if I fast from something I like, it provokes the craving for that thing even more. There’s nothing quite so satisfying as having a great meal at the end of a fast. Instead of becoming detached, the attachment becomes even more apparent. Maybe I just need to persist, but I’m not sure on a practical level what I should do differently.

I also struggle to discern what attachments I ought to resist. The writings of the great mystics - St John of the Cross, St Theresa - were for those in religious life, so I wonder how strongly the principles should be applied to those in other vocations. I’m a married man and father of four - my very vocation is based on attachments. What does detachment mean in this context? There are certain pleasures I have in this vocation - family time, good food, marital relations, etc - that are inherent in my vocation; they are responsibilities. How do I live my vocation and fulfil my responsibilities, some of which are naturally enjoyable, while being “detached” in some sense from them?

And what of other unnecessary attachments? I enjoy sports and drinking good wine; to what extent do I need to detach from these hobbies? Or more properly, what does detachement mean? I’d really rather not give up these things…is there a way to enjoy them while being sufficiently detached from them? Hmmm.

Lots of questions, so I’m very interested in other peoples experiences and thoughts on this topic.

 

[InJesusItrust]

What he meant is that saying that something is ethical or moral because Jesus, Buddha, God, or Muhammad is not adequite because not everyone agrees on the authority of these figures. If your morality is based on rational thinking that everyone can relate to, it would be a more accessible moral system.

If you follow no authority, you become your own authority. If everyone is their own authority there can be no universal ethics, because some will subscribe to conseqentialism, some to instinct, others to whatever they please, and so on. Rational thinking reveals this.

 

[JRKH]

I struggle with fasting, but maybe I’m just not doing it right. I find that if I fast from something I like, it provokes the craving for that thing even more. There’s nothing quite so satisfying as having a great meal at the end of a fast. Instead of becoming detached, the attachment becomes even more apparent. Maybe I just need to persist, but I’m not sure on a practical level what I should do differently.

…Have to smile because I am absolutely terrible at fasting.
What you describe above is quite common. We have to recognize that the process of growing in holiness is very much like the dieting process. It is a commitment to a goal and a resisting of the temptations that occur along the way.

Being attached to food is obviously not a bad thing, but indeed is a necessary one for our existence in this life. But in this case, the act of fasting is less about becoming “detached” from food (which we can’t entirely do anyway) and more about growing in our gratitude for the our Father in giving us the food - and indeed all things good for us.

I also struggle to discern what attachments I ought to resist. The writings of the great mystics - St John of the Cross, St Theresa - were for those in religious life, so I wonder how strongly the principles should be applied to those in other vocations. I’m a married man and father of four - my very vocation is based on attachments. What does detachment mean in this context? There are certain pleasures I have in this vocation - family time, good food, marital relations, etc - that are inherent in my vocation; they are responsibilities. How do I live my vocation and fulfill my responsibilities, some of which are naturally enjoyable, while being “detached” in some sense from them?

You are quite right. So many great works were written by those in religious life and for those in religious life.
You might want to read St Francis DeSales “Introduction to a Devout Life”. It was written for those who live “in the world”…

And what of other unnecessary attachments? I enjoy sports and drinking good wine; to what extent do I need to detach from these hobbies? Or more properly, what does detachment mean? I’d really rather not give up these things…is there a way to enjoy them while being sufficiently detached from them? Hmmm.

To me - detachment does not mean “elimination”. Nor does it mean that we may not enjoy such pleasures - within their proper spheres.
I suggest that the best way to determine your level of attachment to a given thing is to consider how you would feel, act and react of that thing were taken away. Sadness surely at the loss of something you enjoy - but - would you be able to say with Job…“The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

This exercise will take some time for there are many things in our lives and they are so interconnected and some more “necessary” than others to our particular state in life. In addition, the Spirit works at His pace, and not ours. Prayer and contemplation on these matters may not yield understanding as quickly as we would like, but understanding will come. In matters of little import the answers will come quickly, but in matters of greater import and where we are more attached, the answers will likely be slower and more complex.

Lots of questions, so I’m very interested in other peoples experiences and thoughts on this topic.

It is indeed an interesting thread and I hope it is of help to you.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

interestedman;9857052:

You might say that your willingness to help others is unrelated to your own happiness, but in the real world that just doesn’t work.

Maybe that’s what’s wrong with the “real world”!

Christianity is a religion with sacrifice at its very heart…it is based on an act of pure sacrificial love. Christ wasn’t “happy” as he hung on the cross for our sins. To those who don’t believe, it just seems like folly. I get that. But for those of us who do believe, we’d like to consider the issue of detachement from the Catholic perspective in this thread, not to explore what Buddhism has to offer us. Thanks.

The issue here is not one or the other…Dividing things like this creates an unnecessary tension. Look at this quote…
“Those who love God are always happy, because their whole happiness is to fulfill, even in adversity, the will of God.” - St Alphonsus de Liguori
Yes Christianity is founded on a Sacrificial Love, but it is a sacrifice that brought happiness. Happiness in salvation and joy in living in Christ.

One of the founding principles of our faith is that we love others as we love ourselves.
How can we bring the joy of Christ and of salvation to others if we deny that joy to ourselves? We are happy because we Love…Agape…Not in a selfish way.

And, if what you say above is true - that “maybe that is what is wrong with the world” - then the fault lies, not in being happy, but in being happy in the wrong way and for the wrong reason.

Yes we are called to sacrifice…But if that sacrifice steals our happiness…then there is a problem…we have not been perfected…the act becomes a burden and is done grudgingly. This is not how Jesus gave to all those who came for healing. He gave willingly and joyfully and compassionately. And when the time came for Him to undertake the cross - and as we say every day in the mass - “He entered willingly into His passion” for while He knew that much pain would be involved, He knew also the joy, the happiness that would flow from it into the world.

So - I have to agree to a certain extent with interestedman here…It is much easier to help others when we ourselves are happy…We just have to be cognizant of what kind of happiness we are talking about…The source and summit of what makes us happy.

Peace
James

 

[Kathrin]

The notion that comes to my mind when reading this is THANKFULNESS.
Being thankful for all the joyful things that God gives us, and also being AWARE THAT THEY ARE GIFTS… it is not like we can DEMAND them as our right.

I have often struggled with scruples so I need to be careful to not fall into the trap of thinking I HAVE TO eliminate something BECAUSE it give sme joy. It is not like God doesn’t want us to be joyful, right?! He gave us so many wonderful things that we are free to enjoy.

Isn’t there a prayer somewhere in the liturgy that says something like, may God help us use the earthly/temporary things in a way that we will finally reach the eternal things, or something like that? Sorry I don’t know the exact wording.

Kathrin

 

[Edward_H]

Daily examine, with God in prayer, what your high emotional moments were…good and bad. They might point you to something that needs a bit of detaching.

 

[Kathrin]

Daily examine, with God in prayer, what your high emotional moments were…good and bad. They might point you to something that needs a bit of detaching.

But isn’t it something very positive to feel very strong GOOD emotions about something? Isn’t great jpy one of the gifts that God has given us?