Detroit's Tridentine Mass

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It seemed there were some people at Mass I hadn’t seen before, it’s always a plus when we have a new celebrant and additional people exposed to the TLM. Hopefully this wasn’t a one time only visit from Fr Roman, as our list of regular celebrants has got narrower.
 
Fr. Wolfgang is the celebrant most of the time. Bishop Boyea returns on Easter Sunday for a possible Pontifical Low Mass (his wish). Fr. Mark is on rotation now, too.

Also of interest to forumers: On Good Friday, there will be a Tridentine Service at 5:30 PM at St. Michael Church in Windsor. This will be the only Tridentine Good Friday Service in the metro Detroit area. St. Michael’s is three miles from the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel at 2153 Parkwood Ave. For directions, see the map at windsorlatinmass.org
 
He requested a low mass? Interesting. Did he give any reason for it? I’m surprised because he’s got one of the better singing voices I’ve heard amongst the clergy. AND he projects when he sings.
 
A “Low Mass Said By A Bishop” is a specific, more solemn form of the Tridentine Mass, which in our context will mean a sung Missa Cantata with two vested assistants helping the bishop; the use of a Pontifical Canon (a larger missal); a faldstool; and a variety of extra trappings.

Basically, Bishop Boyea wants to try celebrating Mass as a bishop rather than as a priest. This is not a sure thing; we are working on a number of logistics that may not come together in time. If they don’t, we can expect His Excellency to try again in the future.

This is as opposed to a Solemn Pontifical Mass as was done in Flint last fall. Much fancier, much more complicated.

It is important to stress that this was Bishop Boyea’s idea. Nice to see him take the initiative.
 
Aaahhhhh. I was mistaken in my terminology. I understand what you’re saying now. In that case…cool:thumbsup:
 
From the pews, it is better, in my opinion, to have a small number of priests saying Mass. It gives a sense of stability and reduces concerns about the preparedness of the priest.
There are other matters involved, of course, such as preparing as many interested priests as possible for the day when they can all safely say a public TLM.
I wonder how many know the Vatican some years ago assured them there was no indult needed to say a private Latin Mass.
 
This event may is not at St. Josaphat’s but it was in the St. Josaphat parish paper.

So is anyone thinking of going to the Anniversary Mass at the Flint Tridentine Mass community? It will be celebrated by Fr. Perrone and it is going to be held this Sunday at 4PM.
 
Three news items today:
  1. The appeals process has been successful: The Archdiocese of Detroit has re-granted permission for Tridentine Masses on Holy Days! And Ash Wednesday! But not the Triduum. (St. Michael’s in Windsor will continue to offer a Good Friday service.)
  2. On Sunday, October 22 at 2:00 PM, FSSP co-founder Fr. Josef Bisig will celebrate a Solemn High Mass at St. Michael’s Church for the 15th Anniversary of the Windsor Tridentine Mass Indult. A special choir will sing a polyphonic Mass. A reception for Fr. Bisig will follow in the Parish Hall. This is a rare opportunity to meet the man who collaborated with then-Cardinal Ratzinger to draft the founding documents of the FSSP. Directions are at www.windsorlatinmass.org.
  3. On Sunday, October 29 at 9:30 AM, Fr. Mark Borkowski will celebrate a Solemn High Mass at St. Josaphat Church, commemorating the second Anniversary of the Detroit Tridentine Mass Indult. A special choir, including soprano Melinda Enns, will sing a polyphonic Mass. A fundraising brunch will follow in the Parish Hall. Directions are at www.stjosaphatchurch.org.
We hope you can come to one or both of these Masses, to experience the beauty of the Tridentine rite.
 
We ought to offer a Te Deum for this blessed permisssion.

Many thanks to the Triune God for this grace. Many thanks to the Blessed Mother, Mediatrix of all Grace for her powerful intercession in this need. Many Thanks for the powerful intercession of St. Anne, Mother of Mary, as well as that of our dear Virgin Martyr, St. Philomena, our patron St. Josaphat and any other saint that was invoked for this intention.
:amen:

I hope many of you out there will come to our beautiful church.
Please continue to pray for our Tridentine Community.
 
AlexB said:
Three news items today:
  1. The appeals process has been successful: The Archdiocese of Detroit has re-granted permission for Tridentine Masses on Holy Days! And Ash Wednesday! But not the Triduum. (St. Michael’s in Windsor will continue to offer a Good Friday service.)
  2. On Sunday, October 22 at 2:00 PM, FSSP co-founder Fr. Josef Bisig will celebrate a Solemn High Mass at St. Michael’s Church for the 15th Anniversary of the Windsor Tridentine Mass Indult. A special choir will sing a polyphonic Mass. A reception for Fr. Bisig will follow in the Parish Hall. This is a rare opportunity to meet the man who collaborated with then-Cardinal Ratzinger to draft the founding documents of the FSSP. Directions are at www.windsorlatinmass.org.
  3. On Sunday, October 29 at 9:30 AM, Fr. Mark Borkowski will celebrate a Solemn High Mass at St. Josaphat Church, commemorating the second Anniversary of the Detroit Tridentine Mass Indult. A special choir, including soprano Melinda Enns, will sing a polyphonic Mass. A fundraising brunch will follow in the Parish Hall. Directions are at www.stjosaphatchurch.org.
We hope you can come to one or both of these Masses, to experience the beauty of the Tridentine rite.
Click to expand...
My comments on these three items:
  1. I hope that the people in the Detroit area who love the Tridentine Mass will not fall into a mentality of "We have to fight the Archdiocese, and it’s ‘us versus them’ ". Traditionalists often can have a separatist mentality, and sometimes have a tendency to fight their local Diocese, instead of obediently submitting to it.
  2. I wince every time that I hear that a polyphonic Mass will be sung. Whatever happened to a Mass with exclusively Gregorian Chant? I think that some traditionalists tend to turn the Mass into a performance, and focus too heavily on entertaining people with some impressive musical number.
  3. I reiterate what I said above about polyphonic Masses. I wish to add that I think that female singers at Mass are terribly distracting, and tend to heavily contribute to the performance mentality that has infected Tridentine Masses. I also think that females should be completely banned from singing in choirs, the one exception being nuns or sisters in convents, and that only if the congregation does not join in the singing. Give me a low Mass with a silent congregation, or a sung Mass with an all-male choir and a silent congregation, any day!
I know that this sounds harsh, but I think that it needs to be said.
 
GoLatin:

You have made your preference about chant over sacred polyphony very clear on other threads and on other BBSes. That opinion is not shared by all. The place for debating that topic is not on this thread. Please remain on topic here.

Unless you have been personally involved in the often multi-year negotiations process involved in securing and maintaining an indult Mass, it can be difficult to appreciate the politics, subtleties, and nuanced diplomacy that must be exercised. While I don’t disagree that some people can form a negative view of their diocesan administration, those are likely not the folks who are actually close to the process. The reality is that the relationship with a chancery, especially in Detroit’s case, cannot be reduced to such a simplistic viewpoint.

Rather than thinking about such a relationship as good or bad, it’s actually more analogous to the U.S. and Japan negotiating tariffs on imported cars. There can be strong differences of opinion on important matters, which can take a long time to hash out. There are advocates and antagonists on both sides. Yes, you can encounter frustrating individuals along the way, but you can also discover unexpected allies. The whole situation is just…complex.

Regardless, even that topic is off-topic on this thread.
 
GoLatin said:
My comments on these three items:
  1. I hope that the people in the Detroit area who love the Tridentine Mass will not fall into a mentality of "We have to fight the Archdiocese, and it’s ‘us versus them’ ". Traditionalists often can have a separatist mentality, and sometimes have a tendency to fight their local Diocese, instead of obediently submitting to it.
  2. I wince every time that I hear that a polyphonic Mass will be sung. Whatever happened to a Mass with exclusively Gregorian Chant? I think that some traditionalists tend to turn the Mass into a performance, and focus too heavily on entertaining people with some impressive musical number.
  3. I reiterate what I said above about polyphonic Masses. I wish to add that I think that female singers at Mass are terribly distracting, and tend to heavily contribute to the performance mentality that has infected Tridentine Masses. I also think that females should be completely banned from singing in choirs, the one exception being nuns or sisters in convents, and that only if the congregation does not join in the singing. Give me a low Mass with a silent congregation, or a sung Mass with an all-male choir and a silent congregation, any day!
I know that this sounds harsh, but I think that it needs to be said.
Click to expand...
  1. How do you think we got the indult? Well it was not by having a mentality of submission.
  2. I too perfer Gregorian Chant, but traditionalists like myself would never turn the Mass into a performance! We strive to make it beautiful as possible. Why? Because God is beautiful and the passion was (err is because the same passion happens everyday at Mass) beautiful and thus the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass should imitate that beauty as much as humanly possible. And that beauty includes polyphony.
  3. ummmm altar girls I’m against but banning females from singing? Uh… thats sexist in my opinion. If a female wants to sing during Mass in the choir then she should be allowed to. Its not like she is asking to be a pseudo-priestess to hand out communion and be on the altar to read from scripture like at novus ordo masses.
GoLatin said:
have a tendency to fight their local Diocese, instead of obediently submitting to it.
Click to expand...
Oh, like the laity during the reign of Henry VIII? Or the laity at Constantinople in the year 1054? Yep, those faithful were good Catholics following their bishops out of good Catholic obedience. But let me tell ya that darn Thomas Moore! Him and his rad trad ways! And those rad tradie monks and nuns who bit the big one because they refused to accept the new mass! So unobedient of them!

Oh and that darn John Paul II! He gave permission to have that rad trad Mass celebrated! Against the wishes of our bishops in the USCCB! Then he says our bishops have to accomadate those rad trads by giving indults! So archaic! Its a good thing that our great bishops are so obedient to the spirit of V2 by refusing the Pope wishes to have indults! Yep our bishops sure did teach those rebel traditionalists a thing or two!
 
EDIT

I just want to point out that St. Josephat has an amazing choir, and all those involved are doing an amazing job.

I haven’t gone in a while, but every time I go, it’s always very uplifting.
 
While I do not live in the US I have visited the St Josephat and Detroit tridentine mass websites, which are very good, but I notice that there are a number of links - especially the recent ones to the weekly news section - which do not work. Perhaps someone on this thread may be able to help rectify this problem so I can read all the useful articles. Thank you
 
Locutus said:
  1. How do you think we got the indult? Well it was not by having a mentality of submission.
Click to expand...
Locutus,

We got an indult Mass by constantly reminding the bishop of our Spiritual needs. But in each case, the decision of the Bishop is obeyed.

Using the parable of the widow in Luke 18 has always been our model, both in prayer to God and petition to our bishops.
Oh, like the laity during the reign of Henry VIII? Or the laity at Constantinople in the year 1054? Yep, those faithful were good Catholics following their bishops out of good Catholic obedience. !
Click to expand...
Those bishops were preaching heresy and schism. Can you honestly make that claim of Cardinal Maida?
 
I would like to reiterate what I said before.

There is, indeed, often an “us versus them” mentality, as well as a separatist mentality, among even Indult traditionalists.

Traditionalists need to remember that they are part of the same Church, and are not a separate group negotiating with the Church. If the Bishop says no Indult, then no Indult! They must not whine like little children.

The arrogance of some traditionalists boggles the mind.

I am sorry if what I said before was said in an overly harsh way. But I stand by the actual things that I said.

And remember: The Novus Ordo Mass has a VALID Consecration, is NOT heretical, and should not be shunned by traditionalists. Going to the Tridentine Mass all of the time is great, and I might do that myself, if I ever get the chance. But if you can’t get to the Tridentine Mass, go to the Novus Ordo!

There. I let off some steam. Please don’t get too offended.🙂
 
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