Deutercanonical Book questions

[Montie_Claunch]

I have two questions about the DC books.

1. I am working on an essay to a fundamentalist friend about the DC books and I have used ECFs and these nefty New Testament quotes using th DC books (which can be found at www.scripturecatholic.com ) and I was wondering if there was anything else I could use to pound it in that they belong in the bible?
2. Does anyone know where I can find out about M. Luther taking them out? I figure that would be interesting to read about and good material on talking with protestants?

Thanks and God Bless.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I have two questions about the DC books.

1. I am working on an essay to a fundamentalist friend about the DC books and I have used ECFs and these nefty New Testament quotes using th DC books (which can be found at www.scripturecatholic.com ) and I was wondering if there was anything else I could use to pound it in that they belong in the bible?
2. Does anyone know where I can find out about M. Luther taking them out? I figure that would be interesting to read about and good material on talking with protestants?

Thanks and God Bless.

I think the archives in Catholic.com may have reference on Martin Luther taking them out. It dwelt with him going back to St. Jerome’s commentary when he translated the Septuagint into Latin. St. Jerome doubted using Maccabees 1 & 2 and other deutercanonical books because the Jews religious leader did not consider them inspired.

Martin Luther decided not to add the Deutercanical books because the Jews did not accept them because there are no Hebrew transcript on the DB.

I also like to add that Martin Luther in his early Bible translation did not include the letter of James because it contradict his dogma of “faith alone.”
The Jews did not accept any text that was not written in Hebrew. The early Christians have used the Septugagint from the beginning and it was fruitful to use them rather than take them out.

I’m sure the sources that you seek are available online…

 

[alexaustralia]

Martin Luther decided not to add the Deutercanical books because the Jews did not accept them because there are no Hebrew transcript on the DB.

Actually some of the DC were in hebrew but did not met a second criteria and that was that theh had to date some time before the last OT prophet. I also believe there was a third criteria used but can’t remember.

 

[CATHOLICHEAD]

The Apostles used the Septuagint. Want a great prooftext…here you go

Hebrews 11:35 speaks of someone being tortured and refusing to be released to receive a better resurrection…this is in reference to an OT passage…but a passage ABSENT from the Protestant bible, because it can only be found in a book that Luther took out!

check out 2Macc 7, where the verse is referencing.

Hope this helps!

CH

 

[Corki]

Another interesting tidbit: the Jewish canon that included only books written in Hebrew was not codified until the council of Jamnia around 90 AD. The Jews in the time of Jesus and the Apostles used the Alexandrian set of Scriptures which includes the DC books. The set of Scriptures that Jesus would have used would have been the Alexandrian. This is why you see the DCs referred to by Jesus himself in the New Testament. So the DC books were used from the very earliest days of Christianity until the 1500s.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Actually some of the DC were in hebrew but did not met a second criteria and that was that theh had to date some time before the last OT prophet. I also believe there was a third criteria used but can’t remember.

Thanks for the addition information.

 

[Michael_G]

I have two questions about the DC books.

1. I am working on an essay to a fundamentalist friend about the DC books and I have used ECFs and these nefty New Testament quotes using th DC books (which can be found at www.scripturecatholic.com ) and I was wondering if there was anything else I could use to pound it in that they belong in the bible?

.

The original 1611 King James not only contained all of the DC books but also contained in its margin notes in the NT passages which it felt were quoted from the DC books

Many Protestants will try to argue;
“Neither Christ or his apostles ever quoted from the Apocrypha books*.*”
In the Original 1611 King James Version we find eleven New Testament verses that the Protestant translators felt were quotes from “Apocrypha” books, and in the margin notes they cross-referenced them as such.
Mat 6:7 And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.Ecclesiasticus 7:13 Be not full of words in a multitude of ancients, and repeat not the word in thy prayer.

[Mat 23:37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stonest them that are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under her wings, and thou wouldst not? ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in4.5gif.jpg)[%between%](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in4.5gif.jpg)

4 Esdras 1:30 So haue I gathered you, as the henne her chickenes vnder her winges. But now what shal I doe to you? I wil throw you from my face. ([Matt. 23:37](file:///C:/CCD/mt.html#23:37)) [Mat 27:43He trusted in God: let him now deliver him if he will have him. For he said: I am the Son of God. ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in5.gif)[%between%](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in5.gif)

Wisdom 2:15-16 He is grievous unto us, even to behold: for his life is not like other men’s, and his ways are very different.
We are esteemed by him as triflers, and he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness, and he preferreth the latter end of the just, and glorieth that he hath God for his father. [Luke 6:31](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in5.1.gif)[And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them in like manner.](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in5.1.gif)Tobit 4:16 See thou never do to another what thou wouldst hate to have done to thee by another.[John 10:22 ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.1.gif)[And it was the feast of the dedication at Jerusalem: and it was winter. ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.1.gif)1 Maccabees 4:59 And Judas, and his brethren, and all the church of Israel decreed, that the day of the dedication of the altar should be kept in its season from year to year for eight days, from the five and twentieth day of the month of Casleu, with joy and gladness. (Hanakah)
[Rom 9:21 ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.2.gif)[Or hath not ](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.2.gif)[the potter](file:///C:/CCD/n_ro.html#9:21) power over the clay, of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour? Wisdom 15:7 The potter also tempering soft earth, with labour fashioneth every vessel for our service, and of the same clay he maketh both vessels that are for clean uses, and likewise such as serve to the contrary: but what is the use of these vessels, the potter is the judge[Rom 11:34](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.3.gif)[ For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been his counsellor?](file:///C:/CCD/images/dut_in6.3.gif)Wisdom 9:13 For who among men is he that can know the counsel of God? or who can think what the will of God is?