Deuteronomy 22:5 and Women's Trousers

[KayMS]

That is the title of this thread and this article:
seekwisdom.org/articles/deut22_5.htm

 

[Verbum]

Hi Kay,

It used to be that Chinese women wore trousers and Chinese men wore robes. So what is male and what is female cannot be defined in absolute terms. It would then seem that what the Bible condemns is dressing for sinful purposes, such as cross-dressing for prostitution etc.

Verbum

 

[KayMS]

Greetings Verbum,
Several Asian cultures had this practice (women/trousers - men/robes)and maintained modesty. Your explanation is what the Catholic Church teaches and early Judaism taught. Christianity is, afterall, universal - not cultural. Modesty is the absolute, not the mode of clothing.

 

[porthos11]

The prohibition is against perverse cross-dressing. Whether trousers or skirts are men’s or women’s clothing is a matter of culture. And even in Western culture, there are men’s trousers and women’s trousers. I, as a man, wouldn’t be caught dead wearing my wife’s pants (assuming they fit). The difference is just too obvious.

And then there are such things as “unisex”, suitable for men and women alike, e.g. regular jeans. Again it’s a cultural thing.

The “women shouldn’t wear pants” people should lighten up.

 

[jako]

Back in biblical times men and women wore robes. There were differences in style etc. The point seems to be that men wear mens clothing and women wear womens. We should not be cross dressing.

 

[KayMS]

Clothing style is only one method of gender distinction. For example, at one point in Judaism, male and female garments were nearly identical save that women wore colorful garments and men wore white. Sometime ornamentation was/is the characteristic of gender distinction, the garment being identical for both genders. Normal society will always have a way to determine the differences in gender even if clothing styles become “unisex.”

 

[dancus]

This sudden interest with Deuteronomy intrigues me. I’ve noticed it popping up more and more. Why? It doesn’t apply to Gentiles. The Book is an interesting read for us, nothing more. Yet these folk seem to enspouse one law that fits their particular agenda. Yet it is written you must obey the entire law. As for KAY MS regarding the color of the robes, your right on the money. However if they all wore the same color, unisex. The sure give away would be their faces. Women, except the most destitute, wore eye-liner and mascara. Job’s third beautiful daughters name, Keren-happuch, translates to cosmetic jar. More precisely the container for a black powder (kohl?) that was used as mascara. I suppose even then women knew squinting in bright sun-light caused wrinkles. And yes, It is possible the Virgin Mary may have worn it also. Dan

 

[KayMS]

Dan,

I was away on vacation. Your example beautifully represents how gender distinction is maintained even if not through clothing.

As for the issue of Deut., our pastor’s homily today was a reflection of a similar historical occurence. More specifically, he reflected on the rigidity of the law present in Judaism and how Christ corrected this error thus allowing the Apostles to “go forth” and preach the Good News to all men, not just a chosen few, with laws but not rigidity. The attempts to impose, once again, with passages such as the above from scripture, a similar rigidity is the same error the Jews fell into.

 

[Brie215]

I have a pair of Salomon tights. I find them very warm. XA Raid tight. They aren’t cheap but they are very good. I don’t like cheaper tights as they don’t fit me well. I don’t like all the baggy bits.

 

[Fidelis]

This sudden interest with Deuteronomy intrigues me. I’ve noticed it popping up more and more. Why? It doesn’t apply to Gentiles. The Book is an interesting read for us, nothing more.

According to the teaching of the Catholic Church, it is substantially of more value than that. From Dei Verbum, the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation:

THE OLD TESTAMENT

1. In carefully planning and preparing the salvation of the whole human race the God of infinite love, by a special dispensation, chose for Himself a people to whom He would entrust His promises. First He entered into a covenant with Abraham (see Gen. 15:18) and, through Moses, with the people of Israel (see Ex. 24:8). To this people which He had acquired for Himself, He so manifested Himself through words and deeds as the one true and living God that Israel came to know by experience the ways of God with men. Then too, when God Himself spoke to them through the mouth of the prophets, Israel daily gained a deeper and clearer understanding of His ways and made them more widely known among the nations (see Ps. 21:29; 95:1-3; Is. 2:1-5; Jer. 3:17). The plan of salvation foretold by the sacred authors, recounted and explained by them, is found as the true word of God in the books of the Old Testament: these books, therefore, written under divine inspiration, remain permanently valuable. “For all that was written for our instruction, so that by steadfastness and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope” (Rom. 15:4).

1. The principal purpose to which the plan of the old covenant was directed was to prepare for the coming of Christ, the redeemer of all and of the messianic kingdom, to announce this coming by prophecy (see Luke 24:44; John 5:39; 1 Peter 1:10), and to indicate its meaning through various types (see 1 Cor. 10:12). Now the books of the Old Testament, in accordance with the state of mankind before the time of salvation established by Christ, reveal to all men the knowledge of God and of man and the ways in which God, just and merciful, deals with men. These books, though they also contain some things which are incomplete and temporary, nevertheless show us true divine pedagogy. (1) These same books, then, give expression to a lively sense of God, contain a store of sublime teachings about God, sound wisdom about human life, and a wonderful treasury of prayers, and in them the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way. Christians should receive them with reverence.

1. God, the inspirer and author of both Testaments, wisely arranged that the New Testament be hidden in the Old and the Old be made manifest in the New. (2) For, though Christ established the new covenant in His blood (see Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25), still the books of the Old Testament with all their parts, caught up into the proclamation of the Gospel, (3) acquire and show forth their full meaning in the New Testament (see Matt. 5:17; Luke 24:27; Rom. 16:25-26; 2 Cor. 14:16) and in turn shed light on it and explain it.

 

[x1980x]

The prohibition is against perverse cross-dressing. Whether trousers or skirts are men’s or women’s clothing is a matter of culture. And even in Western culture, there are men’s trousers and women’s trousers. I, as a man, wouldn’t be caught dead wearing my wife’s pants (assuming they fit). The difference is just too obvious.

And then there are such things as “unisex”, suitable for men and women alike, e.g. regular jeans. Again it’s a cultural thing.

The “women shouldn’t wear pants” people should lighten up.

And, there are men’s skirts in some cultures even today, and there are differences to distinguish them from women’s skirts. The modern Scottish kilt is a skirt, but is styled in a way that distinguishes it from women’s skirts. If a woman or girl wears “the” kilt, it is, in the view of some Scottish people, crossdressing.