Developing a relationship with my catholic father

[Realist]

I come from a strict catholic family. My dad raised all of his children to not only believe in God, but to understand its apologetics. To that end, and to, I’m certain, some of his own ends as well, he even runs a public access catholic tv show in his basement.

So it was a real blow when I left the church as a young adult, about a decade ago. He chalked it up to youthful indiscretion, assuming I would eventually come back, but I’m now in my mid-twenties and the outlook is bleak. However, I did not come to this forum to engage anyone in a religious debate. We all believe what we believe for our own reasons. I’m sure you don’t care why I’m an atheist. I mean, I hardly care.

I came to this forum seeking advice.

Last year, I joined the AmeriCorps and moved across the country with my girlfriend. My dad, trying to head us off at the pass, tried to convince me not to move in with her. Well, clearly he hadn’t ever tried to live on a volunteer’s stipdend. It was the perfect situation. We could split the cost of a one-bedroom apartment, a luxury volunteers outside of committed relationships could not afford. And one that proved necessary. I don’t know how we could have made it had we not been able to cut that extra one to two hundred dollars off our monthly expenses.

At the same time, of course, we wanted to move in together. We wanted to see how well we would work together, day-in and day-out. It was an opportunity to experience life together without the incredible and daunting commitment of marriage. As atheists, we saw nothing wrong with this. On the contrary, we felt it was the responsible thing to do.

My dad, however, did not share our opinion. This is where things began turning nasty. He cut me off financially (which was fine, I’m really not complaining about this), and began making my “sinful” lifestyle a regular topic of conversation.

It’s gotten to the point where I have a difficult time talking to him about anything beyond the logistical elements of my life, like what my plans are, where I’m moving, what grad school I’m going to attend, etc. We don’t seem to be able to connect on any real level anymore.

I wouldn’t worry too much about it if I thought all it was going to take to patch things up was marriage. After this wonderful year with my girlfriend, marriage seems almost inevitable. We both still feel we’re too young to make that life long decision, but I imagine we’re just a few short years away.

My fear is that when we do get married, my dad will find something else morally wrong with me. Even if he doesn’t, I can already see the confrontation that will develop should I ever have children. I don’t want us to spend the rest of our relationship squabbling over religious matters.

I understand it hurts him to believe that when he is in heaven, I will be in hell, but it hurts me to think, as a result of our religious differences, we can’t have a meaningful relationship while we’re both still alive.

My reason for coming to this board is to solicit the perspectives of catholics in situations similar to my father’s. I realize my perspective is only one half of this equation. I would like to understand the remaining half.

I would also like to ask your advice. Is there anything I can do to get beyond this with my dad? I understand that is probably a question only the two of us can answer, but, if you’re feeling generous, please put yourself in this situation and share your thoughts.

 

[cheddarsox]

I am the only one of six kids who has left the Catholic faith, so I can understand (to some degree) what you are experiencing.

Question, is your father unwilling to talk about other things and be engaged in a relationship with you, or is your feeling that you are being judged keeping you from being able to engage with him?

Sometimes a person can magnifiy the situation by their response to it. (I don’t know if you are doing that or not, just checking)

Sometimes people draw a line in the sand and every encounter becomes a battle over that issue. (if you won’t let my girlfriend and I share a bedroom in your home, we won’t visit you anymore, type of thing) or HE may be doing that sort of thing.

Maybe you could both sit down with a priest and have a good long discussion, the three of you, about how to move on with your relationship. Priests deal with this with families in their parishes all the time, and may be able to help you two get over a hump.

I’m middle aged now, been away from Catholicism for nearly 25 years, and most of the time it’s a non issue. But it still comes up with some family members. You can find a way.

 

[cathopologist]

I truly empathize with your situation. But you also need to understand your father’s disappointment. Remember that he helped to conceive you and naturally, he will feel responsible for your religious upbringing. So when news of your Atheistic views hit him, it hit him really hard. It is difficult to really put his pains into words.

Also, cohabitation is a very risky deal. Sure, as someone without religious beliefs you won’t have a problem with it. Or so you may think. The dangers are there, but i am not here to proselytize.

I was an agnostic once, a rebel just like yourself. But i realized that over the years, my rebellious nature had hurt alot of people in my family. Especially my mother. Only now, i am truly understanding why she nagged or shouted at me. Sometimes i even felt that she hated me.

All i can tell you is that we all learn our lessons - sometimes the hard way. Do not be filled with too much pride or think you are always prepared. I used to be like that. Look at what i am now - a Catholic. Humility set in and now i’m at peace with not only myself but also my mother.

I can offer no real advice to be honest. If you can, talk to your father. Arrange a meeting with him. Man to man, son to father. Discuss things over and let him know of your concerns. Make him listen but do not dictate. I wish you all the best and will pray for you.

 

[rossum]

I came to this forum seeking advice.

Some ideas, which may or may not work:

You do not mention your mother. Is it possible for her to act as a mediatrix between you and your father? Do you have any brothers, sisters or other relatives who could act as mediators?

Listen politely to what he has to say, once. Politely disagree with him explaining what you think. When he raises the same topic again say “We have already discussed that, can we talk about something else now.” Repeat that quietly, calmly and politely every time he raises the topic again. Eventually he will find that he has to talk about other things.

My fear is that when we do get married, my dad will find something else morally wrong with me.

One step at a time. Solve the current problem and try not to worry about possible future problems. You have enough to worry about now without adding more. If you can improve your relationship now then there is less likelihood of future problems.

HTH

rossum

 

[Verisimilitude]

I would also like to ask your advice. Is there anything I can do to get beyond this with my dad? I understand that is probably a question only the two of us can answer, but, if you’re feeling generous, please put yourself in this situation and share your thoughts.

Yes, there are things you can do, but likely will be unwilling to do them without a change of heart or increase in compassion for him.

It’s gotten to the point where I have a difficult time talking to him about anything beyond the logistical elements of my life, like what my plans are, where I’m moving, what grad school I’m going to attend, etc. We don’t seem to be able to connect on any real level anymore.

If you know your life decisions hurt your father why proclaim them to him and rub his nose in it unless you desire to hurt him? I don’t suppose you do so why talk to him at all and figure out the logistics on your own? You are making all of you other decisions so why not the rest of them? I suggest you end your relationship with him.

I am the only one of six kids who has left the Catholic faith, so I can understand (to some degree) what you are experiencing.

I am the only one of five kids that have retained the Catholic faith to include my parents so I can see the flip side of that coin.

 

[BlestOne]

Wow, just wow! If any of my sons or daughters did this I would be crushed. You have to understand where your dad is coming from. He was responsible for your upbringing in the faith and he feels like he has failed when you told him you no longer believe. It isn’t even so much that he is mad… it is that he failed. And then… when you moved in with your girlfriend… that was the icing on the cake to him. Marriage is a sacrament to him, a sacred covenant between God, a man and a woman. By moving in with her, you effectively snubbed to him something so sacred he has to conclude that you are hopelessly lost to God. It doesn’t matter whether you felt you had no choice for financial reasons… it is a big no-no to live as man and wife without the sacrament of matrimony.

No doubt he has blamed himself for alot of your actions. We all know you did it of your own accord, but he sees it as a failing on his part that you have strayed from what he has tried to teach you. Don’t expect him to come to your wedding if you do ever get married unless you are getting married in the Church either. He can’t be witness to something that he sees as so very wrong.

It is sad that your fight has continued for so long… but totally understandable too. He is still accepting the responsibility for you leaving the Church. I had a brother that just married outside the Church and my family knew if we didn’t go, it would further the rift between all the siblings. In good conscience I couldn’t go and take my family… it would be publicly saying I agreed and accepted his invalid marriage. So I had to make the choice of making a family feud worse or basically teaching my children that it was ok to marry out side the church… We chose not to go as not to teach my children the wrong thing. After all, my responsibility is to my children and not to my brother. My brother has not spoken to me since.

If you are totally serious about wanting to repair your relationship with your father, you need to go to him and tell him that it isn’t his fault that you left. Tell him that you love him and want a relationship with him but that at this time you don’t believe. Tell him you understand that he is upset by you living with the girlfriend, but that you did what you felt was best at the time. What I am asking is no easy thing… your dad is gonna be angry and judgmental but you HAVE to remain calm and humble.

 

[Realist]

I appreciate everyone’s feedback and would like to address some of it now.

Question, is your father unwilling to talk about other things and be engaged in a relationship with you, or is your feeling that you are being judged keeping you from being able to engage with him?

We do talk about other things, but they’re very superficial. We talk about finances and life plans and things like that. The other day, at the end of a phone conversation, I told him I loved him and he was very taken aback by it. It had been a long time since either of us had said that.

Sometimes people draw a line in the sand and every encounter becomes a battle over that issue. (if you won’t let my girlfriend and I share a bedroom in your home, we won’t visit you anymore, type of thing) or HE may be doing that sort of thing.

It’s not that he won’t talk about anything else. He just always brings conversations around to faith. I’m tentative to consider our conversations battles, but they could become battles if I stopped giving so much. I make it a point to respect his rules in his house and would never ask to, for instance, share a bed with my girlfriend while we visit. Someone mentioned I should let him air his feelings once and have that be the end of it. I’m tempted to try that tactic. I’m just scared to give him an ultimatum.

Maybe you could both sit down with a priest and have a good long discussion, the three of you, about how to move on with your relationship. Priests deal with this with families in their parishes all the time, and may be able to help you two get over a hump.

This is a phenomenal idea. If we’re ever in the same part of the country long enough to do this, I would definitely consider it. I’m happy to put myself on his turf if it makes him feel better.

Don’t expect him to come to your wedding if you do ever get married unless you are getting married in the Church either. He can’t be witness to something that he sees as so very wrong.

I sure hope this isn’t the case, but I guess it’s a possibility. It would be devastating to have my own father break ties with me so thoroughly as to not attend my wedding.

If you are totally serious about wanting to repair your relationship with your father, you need to go to him and tell him that it isn’t his fault that you left. Tell him that you love him and want a relationship with him but that at this time you don’t believe. Tell him you understand that he is upset by you living with the girlfriend, but that you did what you felt was best at the time. What I am asking is no easy thing… your dad is gonna be angry and judgmental but you HAVE to remain calm and humble.

This is my favorite idea. It’s very realistic and I can do it in person next month when I visit. I am beyond arguing with him about faith, because we’re both coming at it from two such wildly different perspectives. I would just like him to know I’ve made my own decisions in life and that my choice to be an atheist is not a reflection on his parenting.

If you know your life decisions hurt your father why proclaim them to him and rub his nose in it unless you desire to hurt him? I don’t suppose you do so why talk to him at all and figure out the logistics on your own? You are making all of you other decisions so why not the rest of them? I suggest you end your relationship with him.

I’m not about to cut my dad out of my life. I talk to him about my plans because I want him to be part of them. I guess I hadn’t considered that this would make him feel like I was rubbing his nose in my debauchery.

You do not mention your mother. Is it possible for her to act as a mediatrix between you and your father? Do you have any brothers, sisters or other relatives who could act as mediators?

My mother is what’s holding our relationship together. I apologize for omitting her from my post. Despite our religious differences, she has remained a very big part of my life. She would probably be a good mediator if I approached her about it before hand. I wouldn’t want to throw her into an uncomfortable situation.

I truly empathize with your situation. But you also need to understand your father’s disappointment. Remember that he helped to conceive you and naturally, he will feel responsible for your religious upbringing. So when news of your Atheistic views hit him, it hit him really hard. It is difficult to really put his pains into words.

This is definitely the most difficult thing for me to deal with. I really wish there was something I could do or say to ease his pain. I believe this to be the root of all our problems and I don’t think there is a panacea for it.

All i can tell you is that we all learn our lessons - sometimes the hard way. Do not be filled with too much pride or think you are always prepared. I used to be like that. Look at what i am now - a Catholic. Humility set in and now i’m at peace with not only myself but also my mother.

I wish it was a simple matter of me overcoming a false sense of pride. It may have been at one time, but I’ve grown into my atheist perspective and don’t really see a way out of it. I fear my dad sees it as a sin of pride as well. As far as me believing I’m always prepared, I certainly do not. Life has been difficult and I never know what’s in store. It would be comforting to believe heaven awaited me at the end of my time here, but I have become much too fatalistic. I believe there is nothing after this life, which pushes me all the harder to create a bond with him now, before one of us is gone.

I appreciate all of the advice everyone has given and will gladly accept more of it.

 

[cathopologist]

Realist, truly, i do not wish to come across as someone who is trying to proselytize (God knows how much i would dislike it if someone tried the same on me), but please read read this book entitled: “Atheism and Fatherlessness” (click on link).

I know listening to advice from people is easier than reading a book. But sometimes a book can offer a reader better insight (and peace) than someone saying the same old things again. I hope you will consider reading the book.

 

[Realist]

Realist, truly, i do not wish to come across as someone who is trying to proselytize (God knows how much i would dislike it if someone tried the same on me), but please read read this book entitled: “Atheism and Fatherlessness” (click on link).

I know listening to advice from people is easier than reading a book. But sometimes a book can offer a reader better insight (and peace) than someone saying the same old things again. I hope you will consider reading the book.

I agree that reading a book does a better job of extending a thesis, but I don’t think that particular book’s thesis is one that applies to me. My father has been a very strong figure in my life. He has pushed with both a hammer and a feather, and I believe much of who I am today is the result of his work. My disbelief in God has nothing to do with my relationship with my dad.

 

[Corki]

ok, a few things are not adding up here.

So it was a real blow when I left the church as a young adult, about a decade ago. He chalked it up to youthful indiscretion, assuming I would eventually come back, but I’m now in my mid-twenties and the outlook is bleak.

If you are in your mid-twenties now, a decade ago you were a teenager - not a “young adult”. Your father is likely holding out hope that your decision was teenage rebellion. Also, as you are only in your mid-twenties now, he may be hoping that when you grow up, you will think differently.

I don’t mean this to sound snippy but a guy in his mid-twenties, not married, not done with school and still going through his “youth ministry” phase, isn’t a finished product yet. Very few of us this side of 35 are anything like we were in our “mid - twenties”.

He cut me off financially

Why would he need to support an adult son anyway? Especially one who is not showing respect for his upbringing?

I sure hope this isn’t the case, but I guess it’s a possibility. It would be devastating to have my own father break ties with me so thoroughly as to not attend my wedding.

But if he is a traditionally-minded Catholic, he may not feel he has a choice to attend your wedding, even if he wanted to. It isn’t a matter of him breaking ties with you but of you breaking ties with the Church.

Since you seem to disagree with him on just about all matters of faith and morals, isn’t is better to keep your conversations to the “logistics” as you call them? He obviously still cares for you and your well being. How many more slaps in the face do you want him to sit there and take just to make you feel better? Keep the conversations neutral and you will both be happier.

(I have been very close to being in your shoes when I was in my “early” twenties. My own parents “cut me off financially” when I got engaged. Thank goodness they did. It helped me to finally grow up - even if it took a few more decades.)

 

[Realist]

My apologies if I was ambiguous earlier. I’ll clear a few things up, Corki.

If you are in your mid-twenties now, a decade ago you were a teenager - not a “young adult”. Your father is likely holding out hope that your decision was teenage rebellion. Also, as you are only in your mid-twenties now, he may be hoping that when you grow up, you will think differently.

I don’t mean this to sound snippy but a guy in his mid-twenties, not married, not done with school and still going through his “youth ministry” phase, isn’t a finished product yet. Very few of us this side of 35 are anything like we were in our “mid - twenties”.

I’m not really sure what this “youth ministry” phase is. But you’re right, I’m not a “finished product.” I have a lot of growing to do, but I should hope growth is not only defined in terms of faith.

Why would he need to support an adult son anyway? Especially one who is not showing respect for his upbringing?

He actually wasn’t supporting me at the time, anyway, so it was curious when he made it a point to tell me I was cut off. The way I understood it, if I were to rejoin the catholic church, he would give me money if I decided to ask for it. However, I agree with you. I’m an adult. There is no reason for him to support me financially.

But if he is a traditionally-minded Catholic, he may not feel he has a choice to attend your wedding, even if he wanted to. It isn’t a matter of him breaking ties with you but of you breaking ties with the Church.

This whole not attending my wedding thing never even struck me until it was brought up as a response to my original post, and now it’s really starting to concern me. Is this really a problem for devout catholics? I’m sure he’ll let me know it’s not a “real marriage” because God is not part of the union. So can’t he attend the celebration under the pretense of it making firm the commitment between his son and the woman he loves?

Since you seem to disagree with him on just about all matters of faith and morals, isn’t is better to keep your conversations to the “logistics” as you call them? He obviously still cares for you and your well being. How many more slaps in the face do you want him to sit there and take just to make you feel better? Keep the conversations neutral and you will both be happier.

This perspective is difficult for me to wrap my head around, but it sounds like the way he probably feels. When you have conversations with your parents, are they all about faith and morality? Why can’t we drink a beer or discuss literature or any number of other things people do when they love each other and enjoy their company. I really reject the idea that I have to either cut short my relationship with my dad or keep it on an extremely superficial level. My mom and I have a wonderful relationship and she values her faith just as much as my father values his.

(I have been very close to being in your shoes when I was in my “early” twenties. My own parents “cut me off financially” when I got engaged. Thank goodness they did. It helped me to finally grow up - even if it took a few more decades.)

I’m doing my best to hold my own beliefs close to my chest on this catholic forum. The last thing I’d want to do is offend the very people I’m asking for advice from. However, it’s this type of snarky comment that really enrages me and it’s the kind of thing I hear often from my dad and his religious compadres. How exactly does one “grow up”? Do you have a vision, some sort of revelation? What is it that causes a nonbeliever to become a believer? My rebellion is over. Atheism won the war. There is no path back. Save for a miracle, I cannot imagine ever returning to the church. I’m not writing this to upset or offend anyone. I just think it’s important that Corki and other posters like him understand where I’m coming from, just as I understand many of you will never leave the church. And I would never ask you to or belittle you because of your beliefs.

 

[Corki]

This whole not attending my wedding thing never even struck me until it was brought up as a response to my original post, and now it’s really starting to concern me. Is this really a problem for devout catholics? I’m sure he’ll let me know it’s not a “real marriage” because God is not part of the union. So can’t he attend the celebration under the pretense of it making firm the commitment between his son and the woman he loves?

Yes, it is a problem for devout Catholics. If you do a simple search of this or any other Catholic forum you will find many posts from parents who are sincerely torn about similar situations. But no, it is not becasue your marriage would not be “real” due to lack of religion in the ceremony. It is because a child who was brought up Catholic, presumably receiving the Sacraments (Baptism, etc.), cannot licitly marry outside of the Church.

However, it’s this type of snarky comment that really enrages me and it’s the kind of thing I hear often from my dad and his religious compadres. How exactly does one “grow up”? Do you have a vision, some sort of revelation? What is it that causes a nonbeliever to become a believer? My rebellion is over. Atheism won the war. There is no path back. Save for a miracle, I cannot imagine ever returning to the church. I’m not writing this to upset or offend anyone. I just think it’s important that Corki and other posters like** him ** understand where I’m coming from, just as I understand many of you will never leave the church. And I would never ask you to or belittle you because of your beliefs

YOU asked for Catholics who has been in similar situations to share with YOU. And when I do, you call me “snarky” because I did not leave permanently?!?!?! And yes, it was a miracle that brought me back.

Time and experience are how you grow up. Hopefully you will have much of both ahead of you.

 

[cheddarsox]

Something to think about, on the subject of him maybe not attending a future wedding. It would probably NOT be due to any lack of love for you on his part, or any lack of happiness for you finding a life mate, or any attempt on his part to try to force you to do things his way. It’s not like that.

Please understand that his attending a non-Church wedding of a baptised Catholic would be going against his faith and what his church teaches. This is a place where many families draw that line in the sand…if you won’t attend my wedding…I’m done with you, not understanding the sort of position they are putting the other person in.

He has to follow his conscience just as surely as you must follow yours.

He has to follow the teachings of his Church, it is not a slap to you or your wife to be. It is him doing what he needs to do, so if that ever occurs, please don’t hold it against him personally, because it is not an act against you.

I don’t think you do need to settle for a superficial relationship. Hang in there, show him that you love him (I’m so glad you said that), and just keep being his son, loving and respecting him.

I often discuss faith and religion with my family. Even is we disagree on some things, there is much we do see eye to eye on, and the fact that I respect them, their faith doesn’t hurt anything.

He is hurting very much over this, just as you are. Keep being “big” about it as much as you can, and when you can’t, step back and give yourself time to cool off.

And, the best advice I’ve ever received is this…be open to changing perspectives…your own and others. Not just in you and your dad, concerning religion, but in general.

What if you beloved partner becomes a believer? What if one day your children embrace a lifestyle that you don’t understand or agree with? Stay open to learning and growing, it’s going to be an interesting ride.

I have three kids, two grown and the last one nearly so…and being open to changing perspectives has made all our lives so much richer, and real.

 

[Realist]

Yes, it is a problem for devout Catholics. If you do a simple search of this or any other Catholic forum you will find many posts from parents who are sincerely torn about similar situations. But no, it is not becasue your marriage would not be “real” due to lack of religion in the ceremony. It is because a child who was brought up Catholic, presumably receiving the Sacraments (Baptism, etc.), cannot licitly marry outside of the Church.

I was unaware of this. Thanks for clearing it up. I guess I will hope against hope that my dad won’t remember this when the time comes. But of course he will, so we’ll see what happens.

YOU asked for Catholics who has been in similar situations to share with YOU. And when I do, you call me “snarky” because I did not leave permanently?!?!?! And yes, it was a miracle that brought me back.

Not to parse words, but I didn’t call you snarky because you did not leave permanently. I called you snarky because you implied, in a snarky way, that growing up intrinsically involves growing in your faith. That’s a fine belief to hold, but you said it in a backhanded way. It would, indeed, have been snarky of me to imply you are somehow a lesser person for not having left permanently. I wish you the best of luck in your faith and in your journey through life. I’m glad you’ve found your faith and do not begrudge it.

 

[ibkc]

Realist,
You seem like a great guy with a sincere desire to reconcile with your father. I hope it all works out for you both.

 

[Realist]

Something to think about, on the subject of him maybe not attending a future wedding. It would probably NOT be due to any lack of love for you on his part, or any lack of happiness for you finding a life mate, or any attempt on his part to try to force you to do things his way. It’s not like that.

Please understand that his attending a non-Church wedding of a baptised Catholic would be going against his faith and what his church teaches. This is a place where many families draw that line in the sand…if you won’t attend my wedding…I’m done with you, not understanding the sort of position they are putting the other person in.

He has to follow his conscience just as surely as you must follow yours.

I know you’re right. This is a difficult hurdle for me clear and I hope, when that day arrives, I can be of clear enough mind to realize he is doing what he believes he has to do, should he decide not to attend.

I don’t think you do need to settle for a superficial relationship. Hang in there, show him that you love him (I’m so glad you said that), and just keep being his son, loving and respecting him.

Sometimes we, as people, can be so quick to turn to confrontation. These are words of wisdom. It will take time, but we have plenty of that.

He is hurting very much over this, just as you are. Keep being “big” about it as much as you can, and when you can’t, step back and give yourself time to cool off.

This is a lesson I’ve learned time and time again. I imagine I’ll have to re-learn it many more times before it finally sticks.

And, the best advice I’ve ever received is this…be open to changing perspectives…your own and others. Not just in you and your dad, concerning religion, but in general.

What if you beloved partner becomes a believer? What if one day your children embrace a lifestyle that you don’t understand or agree with? Stay open to learning and growing, it’s going to be an interesting ride.

These are good questions, and, in a way, are the questions my dad finds himself dealing with at the moment. He’s learning to accept me as a person who has chosen a path other than catholicism. I do my best to remain open to the beliefs of others, even if I do not share them, and I hope I would be just as open minded if that person happened to be a loved one. It would be startling if my girlfriend chose to become religious, but it would certainly make for an interesting time!

I am committed to learning and growing and that applies to every aspect of my life. As I mentioned earlier, perhaps in snarky fashion, I believe it would take a miracle for me to rejoin the church. But, because of my mother, I do have a cloister of nuns praying for that miracle, and I am open to it if, somehow, some way, it presents itself to me.

This is off topic but, hey, it’s probably not a totally inappropriate place to ask such a question. I am saddened to have lost my faith. I don’t think that sadness has anything to do with my soul crying out or anything like that, but it’s a sadness nonetheless. It was nice to feel like something greater was looking out for me. That someone had my back. I am also completely mortified by death and the thought that I will cease to exist. All of this makes me wonder if, one day, I will return to the church out of fear and attempt to justify it some other way. Perhaps, to steal Corki’s terminology, I will pretend to have grown up.

So my question is to former atheists. Folks like me who adamantly disbelieved. Why did you return? How did you justify it? Was it a miracle? I can’t imagine anything but a miracle, an irrefutable one, bringing me back to the church. What’s your story? I’m interested.

 

[blossom02]

I think your relationship would be helped if you didn’t expect him to not talk about his faith. His faith is so much a part of his life that to leave it out of anything would be impossible for him. I think this because I include my faith in most everything that I do and say. This is normal for a person that God has gifted with faith and love. You don’t have to believe what he does but if you could find interrest in some part of the faith to talk to him about from time to time it could do wonders for the healing of both of you. You could try to understand the faith in the way he does and what his faith does for him and that would be a wonderful gift to your father. He loves you dearly and wants you to have what he has in the faith (it is where all his strength and joy comes from).

Since you don’t believe right now it is hard for you to know how he feels so ask him and love him for it. These feelings he has are due to his fatherly love for you.

 

[lizaanne]

Sometimes we, as people, can be so quick to turn to confrontation. These are words of wisdom. It will take time, but we have plenty of that.

Don’t ever count on time being there for you - you may be very sadly disappointed.

This may sound harsh, but the way to please your father is to be the son he wants you to be. Since this does not fit in with you plan for your life, then you may never please him, and that is something you will have to live with for the rest of your life.

I wish you the best with this - you have made some choices that I personally believe will not end up serving you well in the long run. But those are lessons that can only be learned by living them.

Your relationship with him may only ever be superficial at best. If I were in his position I would probably feel and act very much the same way. I’m sure my husband wouldn’t even be as warm and welcoming as your father has been. To turn away from what your father sees (and knows) to be the Truth, is to turn your back on eternity. How can he not be horribly disappointed, hurt, and so very sad?

~Liza

 

[Verisimilitude]

So my question is to former atheists. Folks like me who adamantly disbelieved. Why did you return? How did you justify it? Was it a miracle? I can’t imagine anything but a miracle, an irrefutable one, bringing me back to the church. What’s your story? I’m interested.

I left for a long while but it wasn’t due to disbelief as much as I didn’t want to deal with God if He did exist. I tried not to believe. I thought I knew enough and because I wasn’t a secret serial killer that wanted a clear conscience for my mis-deeds, but mostly because I was an average person with faults who saw hypocricy in all including myself by being in Church. It bummed me out because I wanted to court the adult dangers of the world, navigating them with almost nobel intentions but unrestricted by any authority.

My parents have both fallen away so my remark about ending the relationship to your father was somewhat self exposing; but not specific to faith, intended only to highlight that there are many reasons fathers and sons can become estranged. I apologize if it came off harsh.

I admire those who have the character to maintain a un-broken faith blessed through a long life. I also admire men/women of character that regardless of faith exhibit a moral ethic of life in word and deed. My father is such a man as the latter, and my mom is like my dad as far as being indifferent to all religions, she has continually prayed to the Angels and Saints on my behalf. The miracle is I am still here. It’s somewhat humorous and sad, but suffice it to say I hope and pray for God’s divine mercy upon all people for all the reasons there are to include my parents.

That being said, I personally could not hide from or forget about God. From the scientific to the philisophical I looked for reasons to conclude and answer for myself defintivly if God exists at all. I figured there were just as many ‘leaps of faith’ in either direction so I concluded in the affirmative because the accurate history of men and what we claim to know is less than stellar, and the history of God is subjective but not refuted.

The history of God is a study of religions. What seems reasonable is subjective but some religions can be ruled out by simple logic to narow the field according to what you personally believe or conclude. If it is one God or many gods…at some point I got to the point where I was left looking at Abraham, having ruled out all other early patriarchs of other faiths.

That left me looking at the three major faiths that acknowlege the God of Abraham. And from there…back in the Church. I could no longer deny it from ignorance so with my tail between my legs I returned with a still imperfect but chastened heart. I’m still tyring to work on the humility part.

People pick their battles (making a decision). Some don’t want to fight with/about God prefering instead to focus on other more worldly things to include but not limited to education, employment/food-shelter-clothing, raising children, social concerns…

Prove it for yourself one way or another. It’s a worthwhile journey but maybe not stray as long as I/others did. If you conclude with reasonable justification God/gods do not exist after serious contemplation-maybe years- then be content with it and allay your fathers fears with a dignified explaination and an end to the faith discussion between you. Consequences are a product of making a decision.

I am reminded of something non-Catholic that influenced me unintentionally regarding my faith. A song:

What you own is your own kingdom
What you do is your own glory
What you love is your own power
What you live is your own story
In your head is the answer
Let it guide you along
Let your heart be the anchor
And the beat of your own song

Funny how some things work.

 

[RC_Matt]

…I came to this forum seeking advice…

.

Probably best to stop calling yourself an atheist and tell your dad that you’re more of an “agnostic;” which is probably true anyway, because you really have no way of knowing one way or the other. On the other hand, calling yourself an “atheist,” states that you unequivocally and firmly deny the possibility that God may exist, and it’s impossible for you to absolutely know that to be the case. It’s also a blatant denial and affront to the faith that your dad holds and cherishes to the core of his very being. Tell him you’re agnostic, that’s where you are in life’s journey right now, maybe it will change one day, maybe not (which is also true, life is long and none of us know with any degree of certainty where it’s going to lead us), tell him you don’t want to discuss it further at this stage and leave it at that. What I’m suggesting to you is that you show your father some compassion, allow him to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow him the hope that you may one day return to his (and your) faith.

In dealing with our parents, sometimes we have to be the “grown-ups” in situations and find compromise positions that consider their feelings and allow everybody to live in peace and harmony. I don’t mean to criticize, but, knowing your dad as you do, you created this situation and it is incumbent upon you to fix it. If you parents are anything like mine, I think you will find that if you offer your dad a compromise position he will compromise a bit himself and situations can be largely defused.

As far a living with your girlfriend is concerned, you’re far from the first person to face parental disapproval and you’re far from the last too. It’s a common issue and it is what it is, you’ll just have to deal with it. If you make an effort to cool the other issue, things may calm down a little on this one too.

And I have to agree with the comment made by another poster, don’t be so sure that you and your dad have plenty of time left; it doesn’t always work out that way. You can never get THIS time back again; once it’s gone, it’s gone and gone forever.