Devil Halloween Mask

[Tom317]

Apparently you either missed or dismissed the reference at the end of my post to “context” which, had you read it, would have saved you the embarassment of attempting to make the ridiculous analogy to children reading porn magazines.

I did not miss the context. My analogy is not ridiculous. Do you think satan has a problem with porn? Do you think satan has a problem with kids wearing masks depicting him? Connect the dots.

 

[queen_anne78]

I think the key here is MODERATION. One of things I love best about being Catholic is the emphasis on moderation in all things. We are not to have an obsessive/unhealthy interest in evil/Satan. However, that doesn’t mean that we can’t “know our enemy” so to speak. I have some books written about demons, the devil, deliverance prayer, etc. and these books come from good Catholic publishers. I agree with Island Oak, I think that reacting so much to a silly plastic mask may have two negatve effects…One being that the child will become MORE interested, and the other that the child will become un-needfully frightened.
Perhaps a discussion with your daughter about God’s desire for us to love what is beautiful and holy is in order…you will not always be there to take unholy things away from her…the idea is to form her conscience so that she is able to make a good choice on her own. In a week, Halloween will be over, and you can quietly get rid of the mask, and in the future this can be something to watch out for. Yes, we are called to be in the world and not of it…but we’re still IN it. And this is CERTAINLY not even on par with pornography…Clearly here we have a child’s play mask that can be used to begin a positive catechesis on the meaning of evil in the world and how Our Lord conquers that evil, as opposed to the completely toxic nature of pornography, which upon viewing would possibly be forever stamped in the mind of a child. Likely your daughter will not remember this tussle over a mask a few years from now.

 

[Tom317]

I think the key here is MODERATION. One of things I love best about being Catholic is the emphasis on moderation in all things. We are not to have an obsessive/unhealthy interest in evil/Satan. However, that doesn’t mean that we can’t “know our enemy” so to speak. I have some books written about demons, the devil, deliverance prayer, etc. and these books come from good Catholic publishers. I agree with Island Oak, I think that reacting so much to a silly plastic mask may have two negatve effects…One being that the child will become MORE interested, and the other that the child will become un-needfully frightened.
Perhaps a discussion with your daughter about God’s desire for us to love what is beautiful and holy is in order…you will not always be there to take unholy things away from her…the idea is to form her conscience so that she is able to make a good choice on her own. In a week, Halloween will be over, and you can quietly get rid of the mask, and in the future this can be something to watch out for. Yes, we are called to be in the world and not of it…but we’re still IN it. And this is CERTAINLY not even on par with pornography…Clearly here we have a child’s play mask that can be used to begin a positive catechesis on the meaning of evil in the world and how Our Lord conquers that evil, as opposed to the completely toxic nature of pornography, which upon viewing would possibly be forever stamped in the mind of a child. Likely your daughter will not remember this tussle over a mask a few years from now.

And…a porn magazine can be brought home to discuss the sins of using pornography…so when little Johnny wants to get the magazine just let him so you can open it up and discuss the sins behind all that.

I would argue that allowing children to wear a devil mask is a far worse matter than porn!

 

[kage_ar]

IMHO, mom and dad should have this conversation - and present a united front. This past Sunday’s “Sunday Night with Fr. Groeschel” was on the topic of halloween, it might be worth pulling it off the EWTN archives and giving it a listen - Fr. gives very solid advice.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

And BTW - it’s my opinion that not all witches are “good”, maybe most, okay they practice a misguided but maybe “benign” form of worship of some sort of creator, but as for me, I’m not going to let my guard down and condone that practice just because there may be element of Truth. The evil one loves to distort Truth in the most benign ways in order to lead us astray. That’s just how he works. :twocents:

I need to clarify something. I don’t think that witchcraft is good. Some who practice wicca are trying to connect to God as they understand God…and by that, I mean they are trying to connect to the Source of all Life. That is not devil worship, or at least, it is not purposefully so. Where I find wicca very dangerous, however, is that witchcraft is, on its face, an attempt to take control of the power that underlies the universe. That could possibly be a kind of prayer, but it is more likely to be an expression of a desire to have God at your beck and call, doing good as you understand the good, not as God understands it. This can even take the form of not caring or believing that there is such a thing as spiritual forces that are evil, ignoring the high likelihood that some in the spiritual world are in rebellion to wisdom, even when the rampant rebellion of humans is so obvious. A mistake that is more foolish, dangerous, and dark is hard to imagine. The desire to give God directions is an error that even infects some Christian prayer, but just the description of wicca ritual would indicate that their incantations are under their own direction. Not good. Very dangerous, in fact.

My point, though, is that the world is full of people responding to the call of God in ways that are not so good. Still, many of them worship what St. Paul would call the Unknown God. I think that recognizing that they respond to that call, that they may be hot or cold but are not lukewarm…I think that is a point which may be used to their own good in the long run. In Jesus Christ, we live at the Center they long for, and in fact that they give of themselves to know and serve. We need to acknowledge that.

It would be absolutely inappropriate for a Christian to participate in pagan ritual. We know Who we worship, and we should not act as if we do not know. Yet I think the devil would be pleased if we condemn their practice. If they are doing their best by the light they have to see, that may be more than we can say. Blessed be God, if God blows through their houses. But we must witness to what we know, which is the brightest truth that God has revealed.

Obviously, that brings up a whole can of worms with regards to Halloween. I think it falls in the same category as the eating of meat sacrificed to idols. If you have reason to believe that you give scandal, then refrain, but you do not necessarily sin in participating. Let each follow his conscience, and let us all support one another in that.

 

[Jennifer123]

I need to clarify something. I don’t think that witchcraft is good. Some who practice wicca are trying to connect to God as they understand God…and by that, I mean they are trying to connect to the Source of all Life. That is not devil worship, or at least, it is not purposefully so. Where I find wicca very dangerous, however, is that witchcraft is, on its face, an attempt to take control of the power that underlies the universe. That could possibly be a kind of prayer, but it is more likely to be an expression of a desire to have God at your beck and call, doing good as you understand the good, not as God understands it. This can even take the form of not caring or believing that there is such a thing as spiritual forces that are evil, ignoring the high likelihood that some in the spiritual world are in rebellion to wisdom, even when the rampant rebellion of humans is so obvious. A mistake that is more foolish, dangerous, and dark is hard to imagine. The desire to give God directions is an error that even infects some Christian prayer, but just the description of wicca ritual would indicate that their incantations are under their own direction. Not good. Very dangerous, in fact.

My point, though, is that the world is full of people responding to the call of God in ways that are not so good. Still, many of them worship what St. Paul would call the Unknown God. I think that recognizing that they respond to that call, that they may be hot or cold but are not lukewarm…I think that is a point which may be used to their own good in the long run. In Jesus Christ, we live at the Center they long for, and in fact that they give of themselves to know and serve. We need to acknowledge that.

It would be absolutely inappropriate for a Christian to participate in pagan ritual. We know Who we worship, and we should not act as if we do not know. Yet I think the devil would be pleased if we condemn their practice. If they are doing their best by the light they have to see, that may be more than we can say. Blessed be God, if God blows through their houses. But we must witness to what we know, which is the brightest truth that God has revealed.

Obviously, that brings up a whole can of worms with regards to Halloween. I think it falls in the same category as the eating of meat sacrificed to idols. If you have reason to believe that you give scandal, then refrain, but you do not necessarily sin in participating. Let each follow his conscience, and let us all support one another in that.

I didn’t disagree with that you said, you forgot to include the part of my post where I said the information about the assimilation of pagan rituals was interesting and showed how we can follow St. Paul’s very wise ways. But to me just because some Wiccans are as offended as some Christians re: Halloween, well it really doesn’t mean anything to me. Their practices are still misguided and possibly dangerous as you’ve said, and while I certainly respect these people as human beings, I would never condone their practice in any sort of form of “cultural respect” and I don’t acknowledge anything about it other than they need to hear the Truth. Doesn’t mean I think they are “bad” people, “bad” parents, “bad” anything, I just think they are misguided and put themselves and others around them in danger. It’s just my opinion and if it offends, I apologize, but I don’t feel I’ve presented my opinion in any such way as to brazenly insult anyone here.

I only included my opinion on how following “Halloween” in the ways of the world is I think contrary to being the “salt” and “light” that Jesus asked of us. Just my two cents. I don’t think we disagree, but if so, I’m sorry. I’m not sure why this subject always seems to devolve into some sort of judgement about values. I think we all seem to take it a bit too personally maybe considering it deals with how we raise our children and such?

 

[BLB_Oregon]

I didn’t disagree with that you said, you forgot to include the part of my post where I said the information about the assimilation of pagan rituals was interesting and showed how we can follow St. Paul’s very wise ways. But to me just because some Wiccans are as offended as some Christians re: Halloween, well it really doesn’t mean anything to me. Their practices are still misguided and possibly dangerous as you’ve said, and while I certainly respect these people as human beings, I would never condone their practice in any sort of form of “cultural respect” and I don’t acknowledge anything about it other than they need to hear the Truth. Doesn’t mean I think they are “bad” people, “bad” parents, “bad” anything, I just think they are misguided and put themselves and others around them in danger. It’s just my opinion and if it offends, I apologize, but I don’t feel I’ve presented my opinion in any such way as to brazenly insult anyone here.

I only included my opinion on how following “Halloween” in the ways of the world is I think contrary to being the “salt” and “light” that Jesus asked of us. Just my two cents. I don’t think we disagree, but if so, I’m sorry. I’m not sure why this subject always seems to devolve into some sort of judgement about values. I think we all seem to take it a bit too personally maybe considering it deals with how we raise our children and such?

I did not mean to imply that you insulted anyone, and I’m sorry if I gave that impression. I was more concerned that in acknowledging that God calls people by many paths I did not make it clear that Christian tolerance of pagan rituals is not without its own dangers. We ought not take the security of our own path for granted.

The thing is, Halloween as a Christian celebration is at least 1,000 years old. The jack o’lanterns are Celtic and the apples are believed to be Roman.

history.com/minisites/halloween/viewPage?pageId=713

There was a time, remember, when gargoyles and depictions of demons were put on cathedrals. This was a time when death was an ever-present part of life, something that could strike the young or the old at any time. The Celts and Druids dressed up as animals, not as demons, for their fall festival. Dressing up as demons was apparently a Christian addition, not intended to glorify the devil, but to remind people that not all eternities would necessarily be created equal!

People used to find a certain inspiration in being confronted by images of the devil. In other words, the original scare in Halloween was from the Christians, who intended to scare people by reminding them that any day could be their last and that not everyone in the spirit world had their good in mind!

 

[Jennifer123]

I did not mean to imply that you insulted anyone, and I’m sorry if I gave that impression. I was more concerned that in acknowledging that God calls people by many paths I did not make it clear that Christian tolerance of pagan rituals is not without its own dangers. We ought not take the security of our own path for granted.

The thing is, Halloween as a Christian celebration is at least 1,000 years old. The jack o’lanterns are Celtic and the apples are believed to be Roman.

history.com/minisites/halloween/viewPage?pageId=713

There was a time, remember, when gargoyles and depictions of demons were put on cathedrals. This was a time when death was an ever-present part of life, something that could strike the young or the old at any time. The Celts and Druids dressed up as animals, not as demons, for their fall festival. Dressing up as demons was apparently a Christian addition, not intended to glorify the devil, but to remind people that not all eternities would necessarily be created equal!

People used to find a certain inspiration in being confronted by images of the devil. In other words, the original scare in Halloween was from the Christians, who intended to scare people by reminding them that any day could be their last and that not everyone in the spirit world had their good in mind!

Ha! Thanks. Maybe instead of being super-sensitive about what we perceive to be judgements regarding modern Halloween celebrations, we are really ultra-sensitive about our mortality! After all, it makes sense that long ago Christians weren’t as secure in their longevity, therefore the fascination with death or dying with our spiritual lives in order, and it seems a lot of what’s wrong with society can be related to some sort of fear of death (and final judgement).

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Ha! Thanks. Maybe instead of being super-sensitive about what we perceive to be judgements regarding modern Halloween celebrations, we are really ultra-sensitive about our mortality! After all, it makes sense that long ago Christians weren’t as secure in their longevity, therefore the fascination with death or dying with our spiritual lives in order, and it seems a lot of what’s wrong with society can be related to some sort of fear of death (and final judgement).

We do seem to have a weird relationship with death…we’re kind of super-sanitary as a society, aren’t we? I grew up in a rural parish at which the children’s choir was often chosen to sing at the funerals. We always sang Easter songs and Panis Angelicus and such. Due to farm accidents and the like, sometimes we buried a young person. It was very different from being either shielded from death or given the idea that death is usually something violent or gory. I’m all for getting kids to funerals. I think it was a very good thing.

We also had a parish house that was reportedly haunted. The pastor wouldn’t have had a seance in a million years, but he said weird stuff always happened in that house…and the priests who lived there before he got there kind of took it for granted. Even though it freaked him out a bit initially, he got used to it, too. For example, someone locally would die, and he’d have something really strange happen, think to himself, “I wonder who that was” and before you know it he’d get a phone call informing him of who it was. A book would keep falling off the shelf and eventually he’d find that he’d put a Mass stipend in there and forgotten about it. Little stuff like that. More to the point, other people staying there while Father was on vacation, people who thought it was all nonsense, sometimes had experiences that made them refuse to stay another night. So I grew up with this idea that some people get a little brush with the supernatural sometimes. Not something you ask for, but sometimes what you get…not anything to either court or worry about. You know, ghosts happen, life’s like that. Be good and don’t worry about it.

Another interesting thing I picked up in reading this week…the nature religions used to dress up as fantastic horned animals like rams and bulls to depict the masculine aspect of divinity. It is not clear whether they were truly pantheists or if they worshiped different aspects of one God, kind of like we do with the Sacred Heart, the Blessed Sacrament, and so on, or what, since their intellectual life would have been incredibly different than the Greek or Roman style of thought or the way we think since the Enlightenment. That kind of question concerning the nature of God may not have even occurred to them…they may have thought that everything can be infinitely divided and yet everything is one. Who knows. As far as the missionaries were concerned, though, it was pantheism, which made the horned costumes a depiction of a false god–one might imagine the missionaries saw those animals and immediately thought Greek minotaur and satyr–which gave us our depiction of Old Scratch with horns and a forked tail for Halloween.

When life hands you lemons…well, it is surprising all the things people think of to do with them.

 

[Jennifer123]

We do seem to have a weird relationship with death…we’re kind of super-sanitary as a society, aren’t we? I grew up in a rural parish at which the children’s choir was often chosen to sing at the funerals. We always sang Easter songs and Panis Angelicus and such. Due to farm accidents and the like, sometimes we buried a young person. It was very different from being either shielded from death or given the idea that death is usually something violent or gory. I’m all for getting kids to funerals. I think it was a very good thing.

We also had a parish house that was reportedly haunted. The pastor wouldn’t have had a seance in a million years, but he said weird stuff always happened in that house…and the priests who lived there before he got there kind of took it for granted. Even though it freaked him out a bit initially, he got used to it, too. For example, someone locally would die, and he’d have something really strange happen, think to himself, “I wonder who that was” and before you know it he’d get a phone call informing him of who it was. A book would keep falling off the shelf and eventually he’d find that he’d put a Mass stipend in there and forgotten about it. Little stuff like that. More to the point, other people staying there while Father was on vacation, people who thought it was all nonsense, sometimes had experiences that made them refuse to stay another night. So I grew up with this idea that some people get a little brush with the supernatural sometimes. Not something you ask for, but sometimes what you get…not anything to either court or worry about. You know, ghosts happen, life’s like that. Be good and don’t worry about it.

Another interesting thing I picked up in reading this week…the nature religions used to dress up as fantastic horned animals like rams and bulls to depict the masculine aspect of divinity. It is not clear whether they were truly pantheists or if they worshiped different aspects of one God, kind of like we do with the Sacred Heart, the Blessed Sacrament, and so on, or what, since their intellectual life would have been incredibly different than the Greek or Roman style of thought or the way we think since the Enlightenment. That kind of question concerning the nature of God may not have even occurred to them…they may have thought that everything can be infinitely divided and yet everything is one. Who knows. As far as the missionaries were concerned, though, it was pantheism, which made the horned costumes a depiction of a false god–one might imagine the missionaries saw those animals and immediately thought Greek minotaur and satyr–which gave us our depiction of Old Scratch with horns and a forked tail for Halloween.

When life hands you lemons…well, it is surprising all the things people think of to do with them.

Wow - very interesting! This is probably the most interesting thread on Halloween I’ve read yet.

 

[nana3]

Our pastor announces every year before the annual “Boo Bash” at the Catholic School, that we are to remember that we are all Children of the Light and dress accordingly and not children of the darkness. The kids listen as well as their parents.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Our pastor announces every year before the annual “Boo Bash” at the Catholic School, that we are to remember that we are all Children of the Light and dress accordingly and not children of the darkness. The kids listen as well as their parents.

Our pastor, born on Oct. 29, used to set up the scariest haunted house in the neighborhood…in that same parish house that had a long and continuing history of actual haunting reports. Not a bunch of decapitated heads or witches or anything like that, just dark with lots of cobwebs, bats, scary faces, and ghostly sound effects. (And yes, they were *artificial *sound effects.) He’d experienced some of those real incidents himself. He knew there was nothing in that house to be afraid of.

Halloween, or “All Hallow’s Eve”, was an if-you-can’t-beat-'em-co-opt-'em invented by Christians about 1,000 years ago to turn the human fascination with death into an annual consideration of the eternal. A Christian brings light into the darkness…so a Christian ought not be afraid of the dark. Fantastic horned apparitions should not threaten us, maniacal laughter should not take us aback, and neither the prospect of our own mortality nor the thought of spirits that wish us ill should daunt us.

After all, the only darkness that can really hurt us is the unexamined darkness we each carry within.

Nevertheless, there are those who experience Halloween quite differently, who find it irreverent, dangerous to innocence, or worse. If they want to opt out for reasons that are sound, I won’t argue with them. Halloween has taken all sorts of directions, and not all of them have been good.

 

[deb1]

Halloween, or “All Hallow’s Eve”, was an if-you-can’t-beat-'em-co-opt-'em invented by Christians about 1,000 years ago to turn the human fascination with death into an annual consideration of the eternal. A Christian brings light into the darkness…so a Christian ought not be afraid of the dark. Fantastic horned apparitions should not threaten us, maniacal laughter should not take us aback, and neither the prospect of our own mortality nor the thought of spirits that wish us ill should daunt us.

After all, the only darkness that can really hurt us is the unexamined darkness we each carry within.

You said this well,Blb.