Devil tempting Jesus in the desert questions

[Inquiry]

I don’t think Satan can claim a deficit of understanding except in the ‘none do blind as those that will not see’ sense.

It’s not official, but it is frequently posited that the Incarnation and the idea that he would have to kneel to a lowly man (never mind that the Man was the Son) was why Satan rebelled. Perhaps he petulantly refused to accept the Incarnate Word as God.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

My question has always been, how did anyone actually know what took place when Jesus was tempted in the desert ?

I wondered that too. Everything else He tells his followers in the Gospels seem to be couched in the details of when and how he told them.

 

[Aquinas11]

Where in scripture does it say

Sola Scriptura is speculative fiction since its self-contradictory.

 

[Aquinas11]

I didn’t mean to solely restrict the “speculation” to biblical scripture

See below.

Isn’t this speculative fiction? Where in scripture does it say

Now if this is supported in scripture then forget everything I just typed

 

[Bernoulli]

I think the devil knew who Jesus was…or why put in the effort he did or promise him the world.

On the other hand, it was not entirely false that Satan had power over the world. Because of sin, all mankind fell into slavery, and Jesus came to liberate the world:
Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out. (John 12)
Through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage. (Hebrews 2)

 

[Gorgias]

My question has always been, how did anyone actually know what took place when Jesus was tempted in the desert ?

Jesus certainly wouldn’t have bragged about it.

Why would you suggest that He didn’t relate the story, though? Not as braggadocio, but as pedagogy?

Did he know Jesus was without sin and definitely wouldn’t give in to his tempting?

Did the devil know that his efforts would be fruitless

The Church teaches that Satan isn’t omniscient. So, he doesn’t know what humans will do before they do it (although, as an observer of human behavior, he can take pretty good guesses and use them to drive his temptations).

 

[BartholomewB]

The traditional teaching is that Satan knew Jesus was the Davidic king, a prophet, etc., but was unaware that Jesus was God.

The scale of the three temptations, and Satan’s insistence, show he was well aware that he was dealing with someone of exceptional standing. But he wasn’t omniscient. He didn’r know in advance that events were unfolding that would transform the world.

 

[Aquinas11]

even in tradition the reflections on Jesus must have their starting point in scripture.

that which concerns Jesus and all we know of his actions comes solely from the scriptures isn’t the scriptures the starting point for even tradition?

I’m not going to derail the thread with a discussion about Sola Scriptura. Feel free to PM me. Forum rules require we stay on topic.

 

[Inquiry]

Except remember the nicene creed: “through him (Christ) all things were made”

Satan counts as a thing.

Or to put it another way, if Satan thinks he is on par with Christ he is deluding himself.

 

[webmasterpdx]

I believe he was human from his mother’s site, but we have no idea what he was from his father’s side since that was the Holy Spirit. We know that it is a statement of faith that it is impossible for God to sin and thus, was impossible for jesus to sin. So while he had the temptation, if he went to sin, he would not have been able to dismiss his conscience like we can, which is the main reason we give in to temptation, so I do not believe that Jesus faced exactly the same challenges that we do…close, but not exact. IMO

 

[Sursumcorda1]

In Mark’s gospel, the desert temptations are in chapter 1. By chapter 5 in Mark 5:1-20 where Jesus exorcises the demoniac of the Legion of Demons, they all cry “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God’s name don’t torture me!” Either Satan learned or was convinced in the desert of Jesus’ Lordship, and Satan informed his demons.

 

[Cathoholic]

Bernoulli . . .

On the other hand, it was not entirely false that Satan had power over the world.

Yes but I am not saying satan had no power over the world. I affirm that.

JOHN 12:31-32 31 Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; 32 and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.”

JOHN 14:30 30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me;

JOHN 16:7-11 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convince the world of sin and of righteousness and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

 

[otjm]

Jesus certainly wouldn’t have bragged about it.

Considering all that Jesus said (to the Pharisees, Sadducees, Gentiles, tax collectors, and disciples ) as to the question “Who do you say I am”, it would not be bragging; it would be one more Jewish rabbbi-style commentary.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

But we really don’t know if Jesus told the Apostles who later told their disciples and authors of Gospels what exactly took place in the desert.

It’s a matter of faith to accept it as written.

Did Jesus get tempted in the desert ? Sure, we all would have under the same circumstances. However, myself I would’ve probably failed where Jesus was successful overcoming the temptation.

 

[Crocus]

Why couldn’t it be ‘the devil knew and did it anyways’?

Because the final effect: the temple veil was torn in two; holy men and women left their graves, walked around; earthquakes; darkness; the resurrection of the tempted One.

Pa dum pum! We win!

 

[otjm]

I can’t say that the question “how did anyone else know about this” never occurred to me.

As to not knowing if Jesus told the Apostles, the alternative is to imply, if not outright say, that the Apostles “made things up”.

The difficulty with that position is that it presumes, consciously or otherwise, that the Gospels are literal transcriptions as modern day comments by people are literally transcribed, a position that misses several points.

One point is that history as written 2,000 years ago was done somewhat differently than now.

Another is that the Gospel writers had a primary focus: they were transmitting the kerygma, the "good News that God had intervened directly in history, and that intervention was God incarnate, and that salvation was here.

I seriously doubt the Gospel writers were going out on a limb on their own. Did Christ tell them of the temptations? It fits in with the whole of the Gospel narratives, of how Christ was constantly trying to tease out an answer to the question “Who do you say I am?”. His most broad and direct statement as to who He was comes with the Sanhedrin after the Last Supper. Other than that, He “told” people who He was by questioning, referring to the OT, and by His actions.

And art always portrays the devil as in human form - because there is no way to convey a spirit being otherwise; but that does not mean that the devil took on a human form and appeared as depicted.

Did the temptations occur? I see no reason not to believe they did. How did the Gospel writers know? From Christ. When? we don’t know, because that was irrelevant to the purpose of the writers.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Then you’ll have to also answer how Luke knew what the Blessed Mother said in the Magnificat, Luke 1: 46-56

Luke wasn’t there, nor were any of the Apostles.

In fact, it’s a good chance that Luke never met the Blessed Mother.

The Magnificat is much like 1 Samuel 2

When I asked a priest about Luke’s account, he said they were taught in the seminary, that th writers of that time wrote what the person would’ve said, but not the literal words they used.

 

[otjm]

As we don’t know when Mary was assumed, it is very possible that Luke knew her. And as to any comments about the Magnificat, I will leave that up to Scripture scholars; Brant Pitre might be of interest to you.

Good question.

 

[JGD]

Regarding whether or not Satan knew Jesus was the God/Son of God:

It’s interesting that Satan says " “IF you are the Son of God, command this stone…” and “IF you are the Son of God, throw yourself down…” ---- he doesn’t say “Since you are the Son of God…” (or something equivalent).

 

[Aulef]

Jesus Christ couldn’t struggle spiritually like we do because He wasn’t stained with Original Sin.

Remember that temptations come from internal causes and external. In His case, it came from outside (the devil in this passage).