Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[mschrank]

See, it’s nonsensical statements such as this that cause so much trouble for Catholics in dealing with the rest of Christians and among the reasons they misunderstand us and accuse us of worshipping Mary.

One need not have a devotion to Mary, one need never pray the Hail Mary or any Marian prayer, one need never pray the rosary or even UTTER the name of Mary to be saved. As a Catholic I’m both offended and appalled at this statement which is NOT based on Church teaching.

Me too. I love Our Lady but this is heresy! Necessary?!?!!?

Beneficial yes, but necessary, no!

 

[dcb188]

But why do people maintain these points of view? Where do they get this information if it is not taught in the Bible and is not taught by the Church. It is not our opinions that make something true. It either is true or it is not, separate from what we think about it. And what does the Catholic Church teach about Mary and salvation going hand in hand? I don’t think it does teach that. But interesting that no less a person than Aquinas says what the quote says. That is pretty amazing, that quote.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

See, it’s nonsensical statements such as this that cause so much trouble for Catholics in dealing with the rest of Christians and among the reasons they misunderstand us and accuse us of worshipping Mary.

One need not have a devotion to Mary, one need never pray the Hail Mary or any Marian prayer, one need never pray the rosary or even UTTER the name of Mary to be saved. As a Catholic I’m both offended and appalled at this statement which is NOT based on Church teaching.

:harp: :clapping: :heaven: :clapping: :harp:

 

[Eilish_Maura]

More importantly, the Church does not teach that devotion to Mary is necessary for salvation.

:harp: :clapping: :heaven: :clapping: :harp:

 

[Eilish_Maura]

In fact, to place Mary on the same level with God the Father and God the Son, in any way, is not only erroneous but worse. She is the Mother of God and is to be exalted as such. Her role in salvation? In the Gospels, no one mentions going via Mary to be saved. This is absent in Paul’s exhortations to seek salvation. Salvation is thru Jesus Christ Our Lord, not His Mother. Virtually every misconception of God begins with a failure to understand just who He is. If salvation depends upon Mary, then God is not who He says He is, and we all know what that means re our accepting of that point of view. God is not less than God. To have Mary as a necessary connection re salvation is to diminish the role and person of God, not a good thing to be involved in. Let us keep Mary in her proper place and not on the same level with the Trinity, please.

:harp: :clapping: :heaven: :clapping: :harp:

 

[AJV]

I am really interested in the Aquinas quote.

The Aquinas quote is attributed to his Exposition of the Angelic Salutation which you can read here or here. I leave it to you to read the work.

One of Newman’s interesting views in interpretation was that someone brought up in a Catholic environment could not be lead to abandon devotion completely to the Mother of God. From the link I gave before

Newman returns to this last thought in the Letter to Pusey. The claim that no human being can be saved who has not had some explicit devotion to the Blessed Virgin, if taken as a universally applicable proposition, is unsustainable. In particular circumstances, however, in the Brittany of St. Louis Marie or the Sienna of St. Bernardine, it can be defended.

The man raised in a Protestant culture may have no devotion to the Blessed Virgin other than what is implied by confessing the Son of God as incarnate from her by the Holy Spirit; it would be quite wrong, on those grounds alone, to deny the possibility of his salvation.

On the other hand, the man who was raised in a Catholic culture and has absorbed devotion to the Mother of God from an early age cannot cast it off without placing himself in grave spiritual danger. The first is the orphan who one day may discover his mother; the second is the son who was raised in her presence but now turns unthankfully away. On the one hand, regrettable omission; on the other, culpable neglect. "To say . . . dogmatically that no one can be saved without personal devotion to the Blessed Virgin would be an untenable proposition; yet it might be true of this man or that, of this or that country at this or that date. . . . If an Italian preacher made [this statement], I should feel no disposition to doubt him, at least if he spoke of Italian youths and Italian maidens.

 

[AJV]

No question that nine tenths of what you just said is absolutely correct, except for the part about salvation. No biblical authority for it. Of course there are references to Mary, but not for her role in our obtaining salvation. Jesus nowhere exhorts us to pray to His Mother. As a matter of fact, He says to pray to the FATHER. In the garden, He prayed to His Father. Did not also ask his mother to pray to the Father for him.

I get the meaning of what you were trying to say but one can’t claim the example of Jesus. There was no need for Christ to ask *anyone *else to pray for Him.

 

[dcb188]

But can salvation be this for one person and that for another?

 

[dcb188]

That preaching to the choir animation is a riot

 

[bpbasilphx]

Let’s pray that the Pope will proclaim the fifth Marian dogma.

I hope not! This doctrine is false. Christ is sufficient to redeem all by Himself.

 

[GerardP]

There is more than one thing necessary for salvation.

Among them are:

Baptism

Submission to the Roman Pontiff

Inclusion in the Catholic Church…

Holding to what the Church teaches…

How one can be saved and ignore she whose heart is intertwined with God’s is doubtful in my opinion based on the teaching of the Church.

 

[Yerusalyim]

There is more than one thing necessary for salvation.

Among them are:

Baptism

Submission to the Roman Pontiff

Inclusion in the Catholic Church…

Holding to what the Church teaches…

How one can be saved and ignore she whose heart is intertwined with God’s is doubtful in my opinion based on the teaching of the Church.

Baptism can and sometimes is by desire or by blood rather than water. Witness the good theif.

Submission to the Pontiff is NOT necessary for salvation, the Church DOES NOT teach this, otherwise only FORMAL members of the Church would be saved…yet the Church has made it absolutely clear that those who are not Roman Catholic can be saved…without converting.

Inclusion in the Catholic Church: Only insofar as that teaching is currently understood by the Church and not the heresy of Fr. Feeney.

Holding to what the Church teaches…only if one KNOWS what the Church teaches, believes it as true, and yet contravines the teaching…in otherwords, a Presbyterian can be saved.

You’re quite confused and I would ask you to reevaluate what you’ve stated in light of the teaching of the Church especially as found in the CCC.

CHRIST is necessary for salvation, how He accomplishes that is up to him, not you.

 

[roguejim]

Most of us agree that Mary is not necessary for salvation, but going back to the original post, what shall we make of all those quotes seeming to exalt Mary beyond her true role? I don’t think they are correct, but nevertheless it is disturbing that those well-known laymen and saints actually made those statements. Perhaps they are taken out of context but it does not appear so. So if we agree that Mary is not necessary for salvation, from whence come these statements by well respected sources? Not that I agree with them, but why did they say what they said?

Yes, that seems to be the point here. In addition, there are many more, similar quotes from other popes and saints, a few of which I have posted below.
True Devotion To Mary by St. Louis Marie De Montfort is considered to be the classic work on Mary. If this book had been filled with doctrinal error, De Montfort would not have been canonized. So, the question goes back to the original quotations. These popes and saints were either correct or incorrect. They were either orthodox in their statements or they were heterodox in their statements. And we must be willing to admit that if they were heterodox in their statements, then they were blaspheming as well.

Here is some interesting reading on True Devotion To Mary
with some reflections on the same book by the late Pope John Paul II. michaeljournal.org/montfort.htm

“With reason did the Most Holy Virgin predict that all generations would call her blessed, for all the Elect obtain eternal salvation through the means of Mary”
ST IDELPHONSUS

“Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people.”
POPE LEO XIII

“Bearing in her womb the Savior, Mary can also be said to have borne all those whose life the Savior’s life enshrined. All of us, then, as many as are knit to Christ, have come forth from Mary’s womb: one Body, as it were, knit together with its Head.”
POPE ST PIUS X

“Souls protected by Mary, and on whom she casts her eyes, are necessarily justified and saved. Just as it is impossible that they be saved from whom Mary turns away her eyes of mercy, so it is certain that they who are loved by Mary, and for whom she intercedes, will obtain justification and eternal life.”
ST ANTONINUS

“We believe that Mary opens the abyss of God’s mercy to whomsoever she wills, when she wills, and as she wills; so that there is no sinner, however great, who is lost if Mary protects him.”
ST BONAVENTURE

“Not a single soul who has really persevered in her service has ever been damned.”
ST LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“O Mother of God! If I place my confidence in thee, I shall be saved; if I am under thy protection, I have nothing to fear; for being thy client is a certainty of salvation which God grants only to those whom He intends to save.”
ST JOHN DAMASCENE

“He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven. Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation. No one can be saved without the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary.”
ST BONAVENTURE

“To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings.”
POPE PIUS XII

“Jesus honored her before all ages, and will honor her for all ages. No one comes to Him, nor even near Him, no one is saved or sanctified, if he too will not honor her. This is the lot of angels and of men.”
ST MAXIMILIAN MARY KOLBE

I will put in with the saints and popes.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Yes, that seems to be the point here. In addition, there are many more, similar quotes from other popes and saints, a few of which I have posted below.
True Devotion To Mary by St. Louis Marie De Montfort is considered to be the classic work on Mary. If this book had been filled with doctrinal error, De Montfort would not have been canonized. So, the question goes back to the original quotations. These popes and saints were either correct or incorrect. They were either orthodox in their statements or they were heterodox in their statements. And we must be willing to admit that if they were heterodox in their statements, then they were blaspheming as well.

Here is some interesting reading on True Devotion To Mary
with some reflections on the same book by the late Pope John Paul II. michaeljournal.org/montfort.htm

“With reason did the Most Holy Virgin predict that all generations would call her blessed, for all the Elect obtain eternal salvation through the means of Mary”
ST IDELPHONSUS

“Every one of the multitudes, therefore, whom the evil of calamitous circumstances has stolen away from Catholic unity, must be born again to Christ by that same Mother whom God has endowed with a never-failing fertility to bring forth a holy people.”
POPE LEO XIII

“Bearing in her womb the Savior, Mary can also be said to have borne all those whose life the Savior’s life enshrined. All of us, then, as many as are knit to Christ, have come forth from Mary’s womb: one Body, as it were, knit together with its Head.”
POPE ST PIUS X

“Souls protected by Mary, and on whom she casts her eyes, are necessarily justified and saved. Just as it is impossible that they be saved from whom Mary turns away her eyes of mercy, so it is certain that they who are loved by Mary, and for whom she intercedes, will obtain justification and eternal life.”
ST ANTONINUS

“We believe that Mary opens the abyss of God’s mercy to whomsoever she wills, when she wills, and as she wills; so that there is no sinner, however great, who is lost if Mary protects him.”
ST BONAVENTURE

“Not a single soul who has really persevered in her service has ever been damned.”
ST LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“O Mother of God! If I place my confidence in thee, I shall be saved; if I am under thy protection, I have nothing to fear; for being thy client is a certainty of salvation which God grants only to those whom He intends to save.”
ST JOHN DAMASCENE

“He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven. Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation. No one can be saved without the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary.”
ST BONAVENTURE

“To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings.”
POPE PIUS XII

“Jesus honored her before all ages, and will honor her for all ages. No one comes to Him, nor even near Him, no one is saved or sanctified, if he too will not honor her. This is the lot of angels and of men.”
ST MAXIMILIAN MARY KOLBE

I will put in with the saints and popes.

That does not change that Devotion to the BVM is NOT necessary for salvation.

 

[dcb188]

A most excellent reply.

 

[GerardP]

Baptism can and sometimes is by desire or by blood rather than water. Witness the good theif.

The Good Thief (St. Dismus) was saved under the Old Covenant. Baptism was not obligatory until after the Resurrection.

Submission to the Pontiff is NOT necessary for salvation, the Church DOES NOT teach this,

papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm

“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”–Pope Boniface VIII Unum Sanctum.

otherwise only FORMAL members of the Church would be saved…yet the Church has made it absolutely clear that those who are not Roman Catholic can be saved…without converting.

No. That’s not quite what the Church has taught.

I very much recommend you read this article.

geocities.com/adam_todm/Akin1.htm

Inclusion in the Catholic Church: Only insofar as that teaching is currently understood by the Church and not the heresy of Fr. Feeney.

Fr. Feeney was never a heretic and never punished for heresy.

Holding to what the Church teaches…only if one KNOWS what the Church teaches, believes it as true, and yet contravines the teaching…in otherwords, a Presbyterian can be saved.

Invincible ignorance does not save.

vitwilderness.blogspot.com/2007/08/invincible-ignorance-does-not-save.html

You’re quite confused and I would ask you to reevaluate what you’ve stated in light of the teaching of the Church especially as found in the CCC.

But the CCC isn’t quite clear on what it means at times. You have to know what the Magisterium has stated on the matter. The CCC is not infallible nor a Magisterial document.

CHRIST is necessary for salvation, how He accomplishes that is up to him, not you.

He has revealed to His Church certain truths. Theologians may try to wriggle around that teaching but the Magisterium of the Church is perfectly clear.

Have faith in God’s supernatural means of bringing the waters of Baptism and knowledge of the truth to those who sincerely ask for it from Him. But don’t turn him into a liar because of the weak faith of liberal theologians.

And remember the words of Christ from Luke 13…

23 And a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: 24 Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for* many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able**. 25 But when the master of the house shall be gone in, and shall shut the door, you shall begin to stand without, and knock at the door, saying: Lord, open to us. And he answering, shall say to you: I know you not, whence you are.*

 

[GerardP]

That does not change that Devotion to the BVM is NOT necessary for salvation.

So, you are saying that the Popes on that list are wrong?

 

[jimmy]

This an exhortation to anyone who would wish to be saved.

“All gifts, virtues, and graces of the Holy Ghost are administered by the hands of Mary to whomsoever she desires, when she desires, in the maner she desires, and to whatever degree she desires. Mary is the dispensatrix of all the graces God bestows. Every grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, and from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.”
ST. BERNARDINE OF SIENNA

It sounds to me like heresy. This sounds like making Mary God. As the scriptures say, the Spirit will breath where He wishes. The Holy Spirit is not some object that needs to pass through the hands of Mary.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

So, you are saying that the Popes on that list are wrong?

Wrong? Perhaps - for if they weren’t wrong the Church would teach us that devotion to the BVM was necessary for salvation - but the Church doesn’t.

 

[jimmy]

This is obviously wrong headed. Mary plays the role of the new Eve in the New Testament. It is her humility compared to Eve’s ambition that is essential for salvation.

Mary is also the helpmate of Christ as Adam had a helpmate in Eve. Jesus is flesh of Mary’s flesh and bone of Mary’s bone.

Finally, her willingness to agree with His plan for salvation is the ultimate intercession. Had she not been immaculate and overflowing with grace, she might have fallen during His Passion and knowing who He was, demanded that He stop the Passion.

Since He was perfect and kept the commandments perfectly, He would have obeyed her in honoring her as the fourth commandment states.

Mary’s intercession is essential and necessary. God will not hear the prayers of the sinner except for those of repentence. He will hear Mary’s prayers on our behalf and those of the other saints and Angels.

That is complete nonsense, especially the last paragraph. Read the scriptures and you will see the erroneousness of your arguement. Christ is our mediator, not Mary.

In addition you portray a god that can’t even love as much as one of his creatures? You portray Mary as having greater love for man than God does. God is unwilling to hear our prayers but Mary will. Complete nonsense.

Why did God hear the prayers of Isaac in Gen.25? Why does Christ say that we will recieve anything we ask of the Father in His name?

As I said, it is complete nonsense to say that Mary’s intercession is necessary for salvation.