Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[Miles_Mariae]

Planter-

It is utterly strange that a Catholic would reject a title for Our Lady approved by the Church. The Marian Anthem Salve Regina calls her “advocata nostra”. Yet you would have us reject this in favor of your interpretation of Scripture.

Sola scriptura strikes again.

 

[planter654]

The advocate the “Holy Spirit of Truth” speaks to us, within us, not us to God. The Holy Spirit of Truth hears what the Father wants to tell us, what God tells through the " Holy Spirit of Truth" what God wants us to know. God said: you need not look far, for I am closer than you think. In plain English I am saying this to you.

Have you never tasted the sweetness of the Lord, I ask you? Have you never heard the whispers of his voice within you? Believe me when you do, you will have no, no doubts who is speaking!

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I, personally, find it quite odd that your reject Alphonsus Liguori but heavily quote St. Therese another “man”. Again, we don’t believe in Sola Scriptura.

We also believe in the Communion of Saints (that’s actually doctrine) which you have failed to address. Devotion to the saints has never been condemned by the Church and has, if fact, been supported by the Church. I don’t think anyone here has actually said that Mary does the saving. That said, she is a tool, given to us by God through which we might obtain salvation by her Son. You don’t seem to understand the very simply illustration by St. Bellarmine nor the very simple phrase: To Jesus through Mary. Devotion to the saints is a tool God has given us to obtain Heaven. We would be foolish not to use as many means as possible to achieve this.

Look at it this way. God didn’t need to have Jesus die on the Cross. He chose to do so. He doesn’t need His saints to help people obtain the graces necessary for salvation. He chooses to do so.

I do not reject how can I reject something or some one if I never heard of them. God Bless

 

[Jordan_Francis]

I have a strong Marian devotion. She is very important, nearly vital, to my spiritual life.

Nevertheless, if Rome proclaimed, ex-cathedra, that salvation was contingent on Marian devotion…I would probably have to seriously consider the Orthodox Church.

 

[Walking_Home]

Planter-

It is utterly strange that a Catholic would reject a title for Our Lady approved by the Church. The Marian Anthem Salve Regina calls her “advocata nostra”. Yet you would have us reject this in favor of your interpretation of Scripture.

Sola scriptura strikes again.

---

From reading Planter’s contributions in other threads plus this one—that is the way it looks.

 

[planter654]

Planter: If you have ever prayed the Rosary, you probably know that the Hail, Holy Queen prayer calls upon Our Lady as “most gracious advocate”. So, do you want to stop arguing against this title for Our Lady, or do you accuse this prayer of being heretical?

I am not arguing about these fruitless things we put into our own thoughts, our ego. But I simply ask are we any "closer or pleasing to God in arguing over this and that to? Are we not all truly missing the true message of the gospels? Oh! what a useless servant I am!

Yes! everything outside of God is vanity!

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Hey, planter. In all seriousness, at some point you should realize that adding interjections and exclamations into your posts don’t make them any more convincing, especially when they have little (if anything at all) to do with the topic being discussed.

I am not arguing about these fruitless things we put into our own thoughts, our ego.

I don’t think any of our thoughts or egos were added into the Marian Anthem. And the Salve Regina isn’t what I would call “fruitless”.

But I simply ask are we any "closer or pleasing to God in arguing over this and that to?

It is not the argument itself, but the additional insights we can gain, that are the fruits of debate.

Are we not all truly missing the true message of the gospels? Oh! what a useless servant I am!

Yes! everything outside of God is vanity!

Like I said, these have nothing to do with my post or the thread of conversation so… okee dokee.

 

[planter654]

Planter-

It is utterly strange that a Catholic would reject a title for Our Lady approved by the Church. The Marian Anthem Salve Regina calls her “advocata nostra”. Yet you would have us reject this in favor of your interpretation of Scripture.

Sola scriptura strikes again.

No! I do not reject tht is not my thoughts.

God bless

 

[planter654]

Hey, planter. In all seriousness, at some point you should realize that adding interjections and exclamations into your posts don’t make them any more convincing, especially when they have little (if anything at all) to do with the topic being discussed.

I don’t think any of our thoughts or egos were added into the Marian Anthem. And the Salve Regina isn’t what I would call “fruitless”.

It is not the argument itself, but the additional insights we can gain, that are the fruits of debate.

Like I said, these have nothing to do with my post or the thread of conversation so… okee dokee.

Good night everyone love you all! God Bless

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Good night everyone love you all! God Bless

Pax.

 

[bear06]

Planter: If you have ever prayed the Rosary, you probably know that the Hail, Holy Queen prayer calls upon Our Lady as “most gracious advocate”. So, do you want to stop arguing against this title for Our Lady, or do you accuse this prayer of being heretical?

Very true. There are so many prayers and litanies approved by the Church and used by the Church that give her the title or Advocate, Tabernacle, Ark of the Covenant. Apparently some would offer their own judgment in lew of the Church’s.

 

[roguejim]

“Many have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers -
among others: St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas, and St. Bonaventure - that devotion to Our Most Blessed Virgin is necessary for salvation, and that it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem or love for the Holy Virgin while,
on the other hand, it is an infallible mark of predestination to be entirely and truly devoted to her.”
ST. LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

Do any of the Catholic Internet Mariologists here feel at all embarrassed that St. Louis De Montfort’s written works have been judged to be free from doctrinal error by the very Church that you profess to be members of? Are you embarrassed that the late Pope John Paul II read St. De Montfort’s TRUE DEVOTION TO MARY as his own personal meditation? Show me your authority to make binding judgments as to the orthodoxy of De Montfort’s, or any other canonized saint’s written works. You are charlatans posing as Catholics.

 

[grandmaM]

But is not also interesting that Mary is the Holy Tabernacle, Queen of Heaven and Mother of God? Mary was in the background throughout scriptures as a pivotal character.

In fact. St. Louis de Montifort argued that God did not reveal the glory of Mary in the early Church out of respect for her desire to be humble - hence why there is no direct focus on Mary in the scriptures. He then argues that as the final days approach, that Mary’s glory will be revealed more and more because she will be needed more so.

I think he makes a strong argument, even prophetic. It is only in recent centuries that we are seeing stronger and stronger devotion to Mary. Perhaps the final days are closer then we think.

I agree with you that the final days are closer than we think but I think the reason the devotion to Mary is growing stronger does not have anything to do with God but has to do with 2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths

 

[Freshman88]

I agree with you that the final days are closer than we think but I think the reason the devotion to Mary is growing stronger does not have anything to do with God but has to do with 2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths

A Protestant would say that about devotion to our Lady. But why did you write it? We are not arguing whether devotion to Mary is a good thing, that has been settled, it is indeed very good to devout oneself to the Queen of heaven.

Alas, I prefer the writings of the saints of the Church to the postings of a Protestant.

Anyway, what do you have to do with Traditional Catholicism, don’t you belong in the non-catholics forum? Your offensive and outrageous posts are seen right through around here.

 

[MrS]

I agree with you that the final days are closer than we think but I think the reason the devotion to Mary is growing stronger does not have anything to do with God but has to do with 2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths

Spoken like a true separated brethren.

,

 

[bear06]

I do not reject how can I reject something or some one if I never heard of them. God Bless

You’ve never heard of Liguori? He’s been quoted various times in this thread. Here is one such post:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3472444&postcount=118

And your response to this was:

Books written on the Glories of Mary—devotion etc. " BEWARE"

Why should we beware of a book from St. Alphonsus Liguori? Like I said, it’s quite contrary when you keep quoting St. Therese?

 

[bear06]

What God’s names given, are they are not pleasing to the Church? Is the Catholic Church being disobedient to God’s will what God desires?

Now this really gets down to the heart of the matter. Do you think that that the Church is being disobedient?

This is why there is so much arguing, confusion, miss understanding of God’s word. Simply read the Bible from beginning to end.

It would seem the arguing and confusion comes in when people try and privately interpret the bible. Again, Catholics don’t do this. You sound as if you are accusing the Church of misinterpreting scripture and wrongly applying the title Advocate, Tabernacle or Ark of the Convenant to Our Lady. Is this correct?

 

[bear06]

Are we not all truly missing the true message of the gospels?

Yes! everything outside of God is vanity!

The meanings of the Gospels are only correctly interpreted by the Church. If your interpretation is contrary to the Church then your interpretatio s is wrong. Also, we are not a Church that believes in the Bible alone, Sola Scriptura. That would be contrary to the Bible!

 

[Freshman88]

I am not arguing about these fruitless things we put into our own thoughts, our ego. But I simply ask are we any "closer or pleasing to God in arguing over this and that to? Are we not all truly missing the true message of the gospels? Oh! what a useless servant I am!

Yes! everything outside of God is vanity!

These titles and devotions to Mary are not outside of God, but safely inside Him, nestled within Holy Tradition. I hope you did not just claim that this devotions/titles of Mary are “fruitless” and are born out of our “ego” or “thoughts”.

Becarful that you do not fall into heresy.

 

[peso73]

It seems like “planter” writes some things in a strange way, but I don’t think he thinks devotion to Mary is bad or not useful, but that it is not necessary to be saved. Not that it is not part of holy Tradition, but not every part of Tradition is necessary for salvation, after all, for example the Immaculate Conception. If that were not the case, that Mary were concieved without the “stain” of O.S., but instead God chose to simply create Christ’s body without the aforementioned “stain” attached, although this was not the case according to Tradition, what difference would it make? The protestants love John 3:16 so much for a reason, 'cos it sums up the gospel, right?
Now, I am not saying we are free to decide as catholics which dogmas to believe in or not, as we must concede to the church’s teachings or be heretics, but I don’t believe the O.P. was talking about this. My understanding is the O.P. was refering to devotions more than and beyond the level of celebrating her feast days that are obligational, or accepting the teaching of the church re: Mary, the Mother of God, I.C., the assumption, etc…
One doesn’t need to have a “devotion” to Mary to be saved, one needs to have a devotion to our Lord, and even the bible refers to those without the gospel being given a certain “light” I think, so that even some non-Christians may be saved, although obviously through the redemptive work of the Lord.
sooooo, O.P. person, tell me what it means to have a “devotion” to Mary to you.
I have a big nicely framed print of O.L.G. in our living room and occasionally pray the rosary, as well as including Mary as “the Inexaustible Cup” icon in my prayer “altar” or whatever you want to call it, and I ask her for her prayers and help fairly often, so do I have a “devotion” to her by your standards?
What about someone who attends church regularly and does their best to follow the Lord’s teachings, and appreciates the significance of Our Lady’s saying “yes” to God, but doesn’t pray the Rosary or even a Hail Mary except maybe when they include it during the intercessory prayers during Mass, do they have a devotion to Mary?