Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[fix]

Now this is absolutely true. But it says graces flow through her but it does not say she is God. Or is more powerful. Or equal. It just doesnt, I can say she is second place. If that helps.

Has anyone claimed she is God?

We have spoken, and which St. Bernardine of Siena thus expresses: “Every grace granted to man has three degrees in order; for by God it is communicated to Christ, from Christ it passes to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.”

IUCUNDA SEMPER
EXPECTATIONE
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE ROSARY

 

[rinnie]

Still having problems in calling Mary the Mother of God?

How about this? Calling Mary as the Mother of God has nothing to do with God’s origination.

Will that make sense and comfortable now?

To separate the two natures of Jesus (Human and Divine) is a condemned heresy.

A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus “was descended from David according to the flesh” (Rom. 1:3).

Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.

Fundamentalists often assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism, which runs aground on the fact that a mother does not merely carry the human nature of her child in her womb. Rather, she carries the person of her child. Women do not give birth to human natures; they give birth to persons. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God.

What do you mean do i have a problem with her the mother of God i just said she was. And all i said is what does that have to do with saying she is necessary for salvation. It does not say that, And it is said the only way to get to heaven is through God, Jesus, whatever its the same person, But it does not say that devotion to Mary is necessary to get to heaven. I said i believe in intercession the church teaches that. But to make her necessary to get heaven is wrong. That is not what i was taught. Necessary is the key word. To say that in my opinion is saying she is equal to God and she isnt. Yes she is Blessed, without sin and full of Grace but she is not God. Nor does she claim to be or does the church claim her to be. And there is no way without God anyone get salvation.

 

[rinnie]

Nillofc, But what i dont understand how could not believing that Mary is as powerful as God be separating them. Of course we believe that Mary is the Mother of Christ and God wanted it that way. But it still doesnt mean she is as powerful.

Im sorry i am separating Mary from God not Christ from God. Christ and God cannot be separated, where did i say they are separated. I said Mary and God . Where did i do that. Please read it again. And if because i said Mother of Christ, Instead of saying Mother OF GOd i would have said that,.if i knew it would have been such a big deal to you. They are one in the same.

 

[nilofc]

Im sorry i am separating Mary from God not Christ from God. Christ and God cannot be separated, where did i say they are separated. I said Mary and God . Where did i do that. Please read it again. And if because i said Mother of Christ, Instead of saying Mother OF GOd i would have said that,.if i knew it would have been such a big deal to you. They are one in the same.

Ok … then we have the same beliefs regarding this matter.

 

[nilofc]

What do you mean do i have a problem with her the mother of God i just said she was. And all i said is what does that have to do with saying she is necessary for salvation. It does not say that, And it is said the only way to get to heaven is through God, Jesus, whatever its the same person, But it does not say that devotion to Mary is necessary to get to heaven. I said i believe in intercession the church teaches that. But to make her necessary to get heaven is wrong. That is not what i was taught. Necessary is the key word. To say that in my opinion is saying she is equal to God and she isnt. Yes she is Blessed, without sin and full of Grace but she is not God. Nor does she claim to be or does the church claim her to be. And there is no way without God anyone get salvation.

Just one question… do you believe SALVATION is a GRACE from God?

 

[rinnie]

Just one question… do you believe SALVATION is a GRACE from God?

Ok here it goes. I believe that Baptism is a Sacrament. A grace from God. I believe that from that Sacrament is what unites us to God. Now to say Salvation is Grace yes i do. But to say we can receive a grace and lose a grace yes i believe that also. But i believe personally anything good is a grace from God. And salvation is good, its what we are all Praying for. To be saved and be with God. But only God can make that choice for us. And it will be on judgement day. Hope i explained it right. But yes i can agree that Salvation is a Grace from God. But i also believe you can loose it.

 

[ruslan]

Still having problems in calling Mary the Mother of God?

How about this? Calling Mary as the Mother of God has nothing to do with God’s origination.

Will that make sense and comfortable now?

To separate the two natures of Jesus (Human and Divine) is a condemned heresy.

This is just for the record: I have never had any trouble calling Mary the Mother of God.

And I have a question for you (and this is not meant to be anything but an honest question). What is your background in theology?

 

[nilofc]

This is just for the record: I have never had any trouble calling Mary the Mother of God.

And I have a question for you (and this is not meant to be anything but an honest question). What is your background in theology?

Argumentum Ad Hominem.

Asking this question, reminds me of the Pharisees who questioned about Peter and John’s qualification since they were only mere fishermen.

A lot of Protestant Pastors have finished their doctorate degree in theology iand still doesn’t get it.

Come up with arguments and rebuttals that makes sense and do not question the character of your opponent - that is the way to go.

 

[Yerusalyim]

First, I’m absolutely amazed this thread is still going.

In Genesis chapter one it says ‘in the beginning was God’, if this is true, where was Mary ‘the mother of God’?

Is the Apostle John a liar when he says at the begining of his Gospel “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning”

If this is true, then Mary must have been there in the beginning in order to be the mother of God!

Is Jesus a liar, when he said according to John’s Gospel, “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day” :bible1:

The title MOTHER OF GOD (the Greek is THEOTOKOS…literally GOD BEARER) was given to Mary NOT to honor her, as some have suggested, but rather, to battle a heresy in the 5th Century that claimed Christ was BORN Human and BECAME God at his baptism…that his divine nature didn’t come to him until then. Against that heresy the Church declared that Jesus was God from the moment of conception, thus stating that Mary Bore God in her womb. Therefore, we call Mary the Mother of God, NOT to honor Mary, but to declare the hypostatic union of Christ’s divinity and humanity existed from the moment of his conception.

MOST Marian doctrine is promulgated to contradict error about Christ…The Immaculate Conception of Mary is taught to emphasize that Christ was untouched by Original sin…etc etc etc.

 

[fdmilkis]

I’m confused

Rather than Devotion, I think the thread is trying to address the fact that we need to acknowledge the role of Mary in Christianity for salvation.

Or is this thread saying that I have to go to Marian shrine and praise her for her holiness in order to be saved by God.

 

[JustaServant]

When I was being drawn back to the Catholic Church, the Blessed Mother played a major part.

 

[ruslan]

Argumentum Ad Hominem.

Asking this question, reminds me of the Pharisees who questioned about Peter and John’s qualification since they were only mere fishermen.

A lot of Protestant Pastors have finished their doctorate degree in theology iand still doesn’t get it.

Come up with arguments and rebuttals that makes sense and do not question the character of your opponent - that is the way to go.

De nihilo nihil

So, you really don’t have an answer or you simply don’t want to answer.

 

[rinnie]

ccc quote all generations will call her blessed. The churchs devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship. The church rightly HONORS the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored witht he title of Mother of God.to whose protection the faithful fly in all dangers and needs. this very SPECIAL DEVOTION DIFFERS from the adoration which is given to the INCARNATE WORD and EQUALLY TO THE FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIIT. AND GREATLY FOSTERS THIS ADORATION. unquote. Now right there it says her role in the Church differs from Christ. She is a helper of the Church. It in no way says she is necessary for Salvation, Yes through her she can help us. No one is saying thats not true. But she cant do it alone. If we ask her to help us she can and will, Yes she is our Mother and we love her. But all things done by her and through her still come from Christ. She has never said come to me never, she always has said Go to My Son he will help you. She will go with us, but its never her alone. God is the only person ALONE who can save us. But the truth must be understood to people who dont understand the faith. But it must go back to we Honor her we do not worship her. We worship one person and that is Jesus Christ. She alone cannot give Salvation, Sorry its not the Teachings of the RCC.

 

[ruslan]

Argumentum Ad Hominem.

Asking this question, reminds me of the Pharisees who questioned about Peter and John’s qualification since they were only mere fishermen.

A lot of Protestant Pastors have finished their doctorate degree in theology iand still doesn’t get it.

Come up with arguments and rebuttals that makes sense and do not question the character of your opponent - that is the way to go.

Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo

Well, thank you for that information. :coffeeread:

 

[rinnie]

I’m confused

Rather than Devotion, I think the thread is trying to address the fact that we need to acknowledge the role of Mary in Christianity for salvation.

Or is this thread saying that I have to go to Marian shrine and praise her for her holiness in order to be saved by God.

Im with you I have no idea what this thread is trying to say. The starter needs to answer the questions direct instead of talking in circles or going on other subjects. What is the POINT, If it is that Mary can help us with salvation, Okay, but the word necessary makes that statement false,

 

[nilofc]

Mea mihi conscientia pluris est quam omnium sermo

Well, thank you for that information. :coffeeread:

It’s good to know that you have an informed conscience and let’s hope that the world’s voice will not affect it.

Still this doesn’t mean if we know Latin, we are above the rest…no one is.

 

[thecoach]

See, it’s nonsensical statements such as this that cause so much trouble for Catholics in dealing with the rest of Christians and among the reasons they misunderstand us and accuse us of worshipping Mary.

One need not have a devotion to Mary, one need never pray the Hail Mary or any Marian prayer, one need never pray the rosary or even UTTER the name of Mary to be saved. As a Catholic I’m both offended and appalled at this statement which is NOT based on Church teaching.

Amen! Yet many Traditionalists would subscribe to such a teaching.

 

[nilofc]

Originally Posted by Yerusalyim
See, it’s nonsensical statements such as this that cause so much trouble for Catholics in dealing with the rest of Christians and among the reasons they misunderstand us and accuse us of worshipping Mary.

One need not have a devotion to Mary, one need never pray the Hail Mary or any Marian prayer, one need never pray the rosary or even UTTER the name of Mary to be saved. As a Catholic I’m both offended and appalled at this statement which is NOT based on Church teaching.

“All generations will call me blessed” (Luke 1:48). To call Mary “Blessed” is a scriptural truth that all Bible-believing Christians must acknowledge.

If you haven’t even prayed the Hail Mary in your life…then you are not fullfiling bible prophecy.

…not to mention that you have trashed all of the teachings of the Catholic Church has taught sinve you pick and choose what you think you can believe in.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

963 …"She is ‘clearly the mother of the members of Christ’ . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 “Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church.”

964 "Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. **“This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death”;**504 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

973 By pronouncing her “fiat” at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish.** She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body. **

You gotta tear out these pages concerning Mary from your Catechism so it’ll fit your lack of belief to the Mother of God.

 

[roguejim]

Im with you I have no idea what this thread is trying to say. The starter needs to answer the questions direct instead of talking in circles or going on other subjects. What is the POINT, If it is that Mary can help us with salvation, Okay, but the word necessary makes that statement false,

I’m the OP for this thread. Where did I “talk in circles”? Where did I go “on other subjects?” I like to specifically quote saints and popes because then, if yiou have a disagreement, it is with them. The title for this thread means what it says, and says what it means.

 

[CBS]

Yeah… so I’m still on “No.”

Respect certainly, veneration sure, required for Salvation absolutely not.