Devout Catholic who's not as devout as he thinks

[cena]

“That’s not a sin. Why would you even think that? The Church has never taught that. What commandment does it break? None!” Pretty much an exact quote. That was one of the last big face-to-face discussions I had with him along these lines. I sent him all sorts of links afterward to back up what I told him so he’s now at least had that explained to him fully.

It breaks a precept of the Church and the third commandment
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Once again, your “friends” have issues.
You are not responsible for casual acquaintances.
It’s not really your place to have an opinion whatsoever.
If he asks you about the faith, fine. Be prepared with good info and the number of the nearest Spiritual Director.
But beyond that, I see little merit into peering into someone else’s soul.
Shoe him how charitable a devout Catholic can be, and let it go.

Like I said, if not for the insistence of my family member, I would have stopped trying long ago. I told him I’d ask around and offer whatever suggestions I could since nothing I’ve tried or suggested until now has done much. I actually prefer what others have said, to try to lead by example. I’ve canceled plans with or involving this friend because they interfered with Mass and then invited him to come with me (he’s always declined). The last time we were at Mass together I hadn’t been to Confession so I didn’t go up for Communion. He was quite flustered over that. I didn’t turn it into an argument, just explained why I stayed in the pew and let him stew on that.

 

[3DOCTORS]

I suggest reading Patrick Madrid’s book Search and Rescue. It’s got lots of down to earth advice and it also explains that we need to “let God do the heavy lifting.” Sometimes we try to do the hardest part, changing the person’s heart, ourselves. This effort is God’s territory really, so no wonder we end up frustrated.

There was a woman I met when I worked at a Catholic bookstore who converted and we kept in touch - she said she had searched many churches and really found her home in the Catholic Church. She ran a great women’s Bible study at her parish that I attended. And I’d see her at that parish where I went to novena Masses. Then she started attending less frequently, then not at all. She had some health problems so at first I just thought it was that. But then I asked one of the Bible study ladies and was told that the once-zealous convert had done a 180. Apparently first of all she had some mental issues, but the driving force behind her returning to her former Protestant church was apparently her husband. I ran into her once and that was confirmed to me.

Your friend apparently is similarly afraid of going against his wife’s wishes. Until a person can put God first, spouse second (even though they love spouse very much), they’re going to be like that.

 

[pianistclare]

Like I said, if not for the insistence of my family member, I would have stopped trying long ago. I told him I’d ask around and offer whatever suggestions I could since nothing I’ve tried or suggested until now has done much. I actually prefer what others have said, to try to lead by example. I’ve canceled plans with or involving this friend because they interfered with Mass and then invited him to come with me (he’s always declined). The last time we were at Mass together I hadn’t been to Confession so I didn’t go up for Communion. He was quite flustered over that. I didn’t turn it into an argument, just explained why I stayed in the pew and let him stew on that.

Dear Gordon, you’re missing my point.
It’s not your business or place to wonder why he goes to communion or what state his soul is in.
Who cares what he thinks when you go or don’t go? You already said he doesn’t hold the basic Catholic points of belief.
Stop being so concerned with others.
Wonder about the wonder of God instead.
Peace.

 

[recentrevert]

Dear Gordon, you’re missing my point.
It’s not your business or place to wonder why he goes to communion or what state his soul is in.
Who cares what he thinks when you go or don’t go? You already said he doesn’t hold the basic Catholic points of belief.
Stop being so concerned with others.
Wonder about the wonder of God instead.
Peace.

By not going up for communion, and by explaining why, he proclaims the Gospel to his friend. We should all be concerned about the state of other people’s souls, charity obliges us to be.

 

[pianistclare]

By not going up for communion, and by explaining why, he proclaims the Gospel to his friend. We should all be concerned about the state of other people’s souls, charity obliges us to be.

Well yes. of course.
But this poster has a long history about coming and telling us about all his “friends” who are not doing this that the other correctly. It’s in this context that I post.
Charity obliges us also to not peer into one another’s souls for speculative conversation.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Well yes. of course.
But this poster has a long history about coming and telling us about all his “friends” who are not doing this that the other correctly. It’s in this context that I post.
Charity obliges us also to not peer into one another’s souls for speculative conversation.

And like I pointed out, I’m primarily asking for the sake of my family member. They have taken an interest in trying to show this guy the error of his ways and is hoping for some advice other than what I’ve already given. Since I also have dealings with him, and since I’m regularly asked to assist, I’ll continue to make a point of trying to lead by example when appropriate, but at the same time I’m not going to knock myself out or lose any sleep in the process. The advice I’ve given so far has either not had the intended results or hasn’t been something my family member wants to try. I’m just seeking other advice that my family member might find helpful.

To 3DOCTORS, I had Patrick Madrid’s book sitting in the save it for later section of my Amazon checkout cart for months. I deleted it when I realized my stack of books to read was only getting bigger. I might have to finally check it out. It may not do anything for me in this instance but my original interest in it was unrelated to this person.

 

[PJM]

=Gordon Sims;12632572]How would you deal with this? I was talking with a family member earlier this week. We have a mutual friend who, as far as he is concerned, is a paragon of Catholic virtue. He goes to Mass more than anyone he knows–at least once a month, sometimes twice if someone dies (the rest of the time he’s at his wife’s extremely liberal, nondenominational, strip mall worship club). He never eats or drinks during Mass as long as he finishes before coming in the door. He owns a rosary and knows it has something to do with Hail Marys. He’s excited about Pope Francis’ announced plans to allow gay marriage, divorce and women priests. He doesn’t make too much fun of his misguided pro-life friends. He puts up a Christmas tree and Nativity Scene each year, even though he encourages his kids to celebrate whichever holiday they choose because they’re all the same anyway. I could go on and on. The point is, when you talk to him he’s very sincere about his belief that he’s knocking it out of the park when it comes to this whole Catholicism thingy. He backs up a lot of what he says by quoting his favorite blog (I have no idea what it is, he just calls it, “that Catholic blog I read”). He won’t read Catholic books but he will read the occasional, wife-approved Protestant book. This family member is closer to him than I am so they might have better luck swaying some of his opinions, but he’s clueless about how to make any inroads. I’ve suggested trying to get him to go their parish’s Bible study with him or actually reading over some of the weekly emails from their priest to him. Short of being confrontational, which hasn’t had any positive results, I’m not sure how else to get this guy to see the error of some of his ways. The few times I’ve discussed it with him (always online/email, never in person), as soon as I make any firm comments about anything, he drops out of the conversation.

Wow,

Maybe in addition to praying for them, you might if God presents the opportunity ask the privately [never in public] XXXX Do you belief in heaven and hell? If the reply is no; just pray; if its yes; then suggestion that God determines the rules and regulations for HIS one true religion; if you REALLY expect to get to heaven; expect to HAVE to learn what the RCC teaches and then follow it.

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Wow,

Maybe in addition to praying for them, you might if God presents the opportunity ask the privately [never in public] XXXX Do you belief in heaven and hell? If the reply is no; just pray; if its yes; then suggestion that God determines the rules and regulations for HIS one true religion; if you REALLY expect to get to heaven; expect to HAVE to learn what the RCC teaches and then follow it.

God Bless you,
Patrick

We had that conversation a year or two ago. Yes, he believes in hell. He just doesn’t believe anyone other than Hitler, Bin Laden and a handful of other really evil people go there. I can’t fault him for his enthusiasm. He can get excited from time to time when he’s talking about what a great Catholic he is. It’s how he completely misses the point that’s a problem.

 

[Tesseract]

We have a mutual friend who, as far as he is concerned, is a paragon of Catholic virtue.

Devout Catholics never say they are devout.

Chesterton once observed that in Belfast the Protestant generally says, “I am a good Protestant,” while the Catholic always says, “I am a bad Catholic.” The same contrast is apparent in his remark that the essence of Calvinism is “certainty about salvation; the essence of Catholicism is uncertainty about salvation.”

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Devout Catholics never say they are devout.

Chesterton once observed that in Belfast the Protestant generally says, “I am a good Protestant,” while the Catholic always says, “I am a bad Catholic.” The same contrast is apparent in his remark that the essence of Calvinism is “certainty about salvation; the essence of Catholicism is uncertainty about salvation.”

I always say that I’m a practicing Catholic, and that I’ll keep on practicing until I get it right.