Devout Catholics are fighting a loosing battle time for me to opt out

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TimothyH said:
With all due respect Mijoy2, I think it would be good for you to put down the sword and step out of the ring. Other humans beings, and other Catholics are not people with whom we do battle with swords of words, nor people with whom we have spiritual boxing matches. You are trying to convert the world, and to do battle with 99% of Catholics out there. No wonder you are exhausted.

You will attract people in droves if you put on Christ and live a life of virtue, kindness, compassion, calmness, peace and prayer. Then people will want to be around you, and will want to be like you.

How pleasing the souls of 99% of Catholics out there are to God is none of our business, and we have no idea what God will do in those people’s lives tomorrow. How devout the rest of the world is is not our responsiblity.

-Tim-
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This is beautiful. 👍
 
TimothyH said:
The fruit of the Holy Spirit is peace. I fully acknowledge that it is a gift from God, and not everyone can be at peace in their situation in life. I certainly was not four years ago. Peace was the last thing I had. Like you I felt like every day was nine rounds in the ring with Mike Tyson. I was beat up, and exhausted. .

But there is only one thing which does not change. People change. Jobs change. Houses change. One day you put clean laundry in your sons drawer and find drug paraphanalia. One day you look at your wife’s computer and find correspendance with a high school sweetheart. One day your boss calls you into his office, shakes your hand, and says that it is nothing you have done, its just that the economy has changed. One day you get a phone call from the police, there has been an accident. Or the doctor calls, he wants to discuss the test results and will you come into his office right away. And your life is turned upside down.

Scientists tell us that the moon is held in a stable orbit because of the gravitational pull of the earth. The same is true of the earth and the sun. If the sun dissapeared, the earth would have no stable body to orbit around, and the earth would fly off into space.

When we make changeable things the center of our life, when we make people or jobs or homes or cars the thing around which our whole life rotates, we set ourselves up for failure. When those things change, we are left with no focus to our life, and like the earth without the sun, our life flies off out of control.

There is only one thing which never, ever changes. There is only one thing which is a stable rock around which everything else should rotate, around which our entire life should revolve, which will never, ever change. God never, ever changes. God should be the focus of our lives, around which we build a stable orbit.

Spouse and family and home and job are important, but they should accompany us on our orbit, the focus of which is God. They help our relationship with God, and come with us on our journey with God, but if we make them the center of our lives then we have focused on something that is changeable. God never changes.

If God is the focus of our lives then we will have a stable orbit. Our lives will be stable. Bad things will happen, but the will not cause our lives to fly out of control. Our lives will change, to be sure, but we will always have something which never, ever changes as the center of our lives, around which our entire lives rotate, giving us focus and stability.

I would urge a focus first on our own relationship with God. That has to come first. Everything else will follow. And we will have peace. And people will notice, and ask us how it is that we can have such peace, and they will want to be like us.

-Tim-
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I don’t think it can be said any better than this. 👍
 
Mijoy2 said:
I supopose I have begun this thread to see if there is anybody who feels as I do. By “devout” (in the title) I refer to Catholics who beleive that the teachings of the church, coming from the magesterium, are inspired teachings from the Holy Spirit, leading us to all truth.

This is not only a teaching not shared by people of other faiths or even other Christians or else they’d all be Catholic. This is a teaching not shared by most Catholics. I, at least, am fighting, and have fought, a loosing battle in this regard.

If you’ll allow me; Based on my personal experinece, Catholics can be divided into three distinct groups. These three groups can also be tagged, or weighted in terms of total population of Catholics. I’ll tag this in loose terms from most popular to least.

First: Do not know that the Church believes the Truths she holds are directly from God

This group represents greater than 90% of my family members, friends and aquantances that are Catholic. If I were to attempt to explain this teaching it becomes obvious that the individual assumes I am misguided. In other words I am looked at like a Christmas fruitcake. The idea held by the individuals in this group is “He is one of those orthodox niave wackos and we need to change the subject fast”.

Second:Know this is the teaching but do not believe it, yet chose to remain Catholic

These people (speaking for most of them not necassarily all) are Catholic because of birth typically, understand this is a teaching of the church but chose to not believe it. In other words, the church is wrong in this regard. She is over-stepping her bounds in this regard. These people do not spend enough time contimplating their faith to see the lack of logic in this way of thinking. I say this because otherwise they’d chose another Christian faith system (and some do)

**Third:Know this and believe it. **

Chances are this is you. These are the people who drive to and from work everyday listening to EWTN radio (or some local Catholic station) and not pop-rock. Although there are probably thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of people in these forums now (I don’t know the number) and because probably you are one of them, this group in minute; it is tiny in population respectively. Relatively speaking this group is virtually non-existant. Certainly less than 10%, I’d venture to suggest less than 1% of baptised Catholics.

Now before anyone choses to bite my head off over my catagories or numbers, I’ll state again, this is my opinion based on my experiences on which I have given a ttremendous amount of thought and study. Your experience may of course, differ.

Why did I begin this thread? Because* I am exhausted. I have grown tired of being looked as a loon. I am not one to wear my faith on my sleeve and I do not ever instigate conversation (outside immediate family). However I usually have not backed down from it.*

Within my family, because I am to a degree responsisble for their spiritual education, I have instigated converstaion. For the most part is received with a certain degree of respect. However, it also becomes apparent that it is ultimatley disregarded. Again, I believe I am viewed as being mistaken. The Church is afterall, only people, only human.

I am exhausted, frustrated and disturbed by this. I am beginning to wonder myself just how many nuts are in this fruitcake. I question if I am right and everybody I know in my life is wrong. This is a loosing battle and to a large extent, I am quitting. I am laying down my sword. I would prefer to step in the ring with someone then one more time to be looked at like I have lost my marbles and am out-of-touch with reality.
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Mt 5:11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

As Mother Teresa said. " The miracle is not that we do this work, but that we are happy to do it."
 
Mijoy2 said:
I supopose I have begun this thread to see if there is anybody who feels as I do. By “devout” (in the title) I refer to Catholics who beleive that the teachings of the church, coming from the magesterium, are inspired teachings from the Holy Spirit, leading us to all truth.

This is not only a teaching not shared by people of other faiths or even other Christians or else they’d all be Catholic. This is a teaching not shared by most Catholics. I, at least, am fighting, and have fought, a loosing battle in this regard.

If you’ll allow me; Based on my personal experinece, Catholics can be divided into three distinct groups. These three groups can also be tagged, or weighted in terms of total population of Catholics. I’ll tag this in loose terms from most popular to least.

First: Do not know that the Church believes the Truths she holds are directly from God

This group represents greater than 90% of my family members, friends and aquantances that are Catholic. If I were to attempt to explain this teaching it becomes obvious that the individual assumes I am misguided. In other words I am looked at like a Christmas fruitcake. The idea held by the individuals in this group is “He is one of those orthodox niave wackos and we need to change the subject fast”.

Second:Know this is the teaching but do not believe it, yet chose to remain Catholic

These people (speaking for most of them not necassarily all) are Catholic because of birth typically, understand this is a teaching of the church but chose to not believe it. In other words, the church is wrong in this regard. She is over-stepping her bounds in this regard. These people do not spend enough time contimplating their faith to see the lack of logic in this way of thinking. I say this because otherwise they’d chose another Christian faith system (and some do)

**Third:Know this and believe it. **

Chances are this is you. These are the people who drive to and from work everyday listening to EWTN radio (or some local Catholic station) and not pop-rock. Although there are probably thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of people in these forums now (I don’t know the number) and because probably you are one of them, this group in minute; it is tiny in population respectively. Relatively speaking this group is virtually non-existant. Certainly less than 10%, I’d venture to suggest less than 1% of baptised Catholics.

Now before anyone choses to bite my head off over my catagories or numbers, I’ll state again, this is my opinion based on my experiences on which I have given a ttremendous amount of thought and study. Your experience may of course, differ.

Why did I begin this thread? Because I am exhausted. I have grown tired of being looked as a loon. I am not one to wear my faith on my sleeve and I do not ever instigate conversation (outside immediate family). However I usually have not backed down from it.

Within my family, because I am to a degree responsisble for their spiritual education, I have instigated converstaion. For the most part is received with a certain degree of respect. However, it also becomes apparent that it is ultimatley disregarded. Again, I believe I am viewed as being mistaken. The Church is afterall, only people, only human.

I am exhausted, frustrated and disturbed by this. I am beginning to wonder myself just how many nuts are in this fruitcake. I question if I am right and everybody I know in my life is wrong. This is a loosing battle and to a large extent, I am quitting. I am laying down my sword. I would prefer to step in the ring with someone then one more time to be looked at like I have lost my marbles and am out-of-touch with reality.
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I am in a similar situation. However, I find daily prayer, reading at least a page or passage from the Bible daily, and listening only to Catholic Radio, also helps. I suggest you share your feelings with a priest. I’m not joking. Impersonal, meaning non-face to face, forums lack that truly human connection that is so necessary.

When I talk to family members, I can sense that I’m heard but the outside world is what it is and that’s all they really have to work with. Faith, as far as I can tell, is a small part of their lives.

You are not alone. I have a friend who I’ve known since Catholic High School who calls me on a regular basis. He is still trying to spread the faith in my original neighborhood in Detroit. We encourage one another.

Here is Cardinal Schoenborn of Austria talking about his country, from an article dated May of this year.

"A persistent optimist, Cardinal Schönborn also believes that there is still “deep faith in the world,” including in Europe, “where exteriorly speaking faith seems to vanish but there are still many deep believers, and we have to nourish their faith.”

“I see our young, believing families with four or five or six or more children and how they live in the midst of this society – they are really the New Evangelization not through words, but through the fact of living the happiness of a believing family,”

“We are now a minority – the baptized Christians in Austria are 70 percent but practicing Catholics are 10 percent — but if these 10 percent are convincing and convinced, they can change the country, just as happened in the Roman Empire.”

Original article here: catholic-year-of-faith.com/?p=416

Sadly, too many internet forums focus on the negative. And dwelling on the negative sometimes helps to overwhelm us regarding our faith, or make us feel like fruitcakes.

Yes, I am known at work as that religious guy. The one who does not do what most other guys my age do. Not to boast, but to be only descriptive: I don’t smoke or drink and I’m not chasing women around for a quick sexual encounter, and I’m avoiding the strip clubs and topless bars. My fun is studying history and science, along with contemporary fantasy and science-fiction illustration. I watch minimal TV and see the occasional movie, finding the bulk of what’s out there to be immoral and perverted.

I encourage you. Talk to a real person - a priest. Join a group that represents a committed view of Christianity and that adheres to Church teaching.

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
Again, very thoughtful answers. I thank you for your kind words and words of encouragment.
 
Mijoy2 said:
Again, very thoughtful answers. I thank you for your kind words and words of encouragment.
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Hello… I am not quite sure what you are trying to say in your posts in this subject forum.

Or what kind of remarks you might be seeking from people here who have read what you have stated…

After having read your remarks, the best I can tell, is that you notice a great difference of what values others in your family or in your life hold for the Catholic Churches doctrines and dogma’s…

You are saying that some accept parts of it, and others reject or do not believe in what the church teaches just because the church teaches it.

But you do… and this difference between you and their views bothers you.

If I am understanding you correctly… It seems to me, that you are lacking in some basic
"Catholic’ knowledge. I am thinking that it is possible that your Catechism lessons were not taught too you properly. And or your personal knowledge of the scriptures may be lacking in the level which would most certainly give to you the insight you are in need of.

and it is quite obvious that you are not taking in to consideration that you can not evaluate the heart of those around you… You are an individual and when you observe form within your own personality through your degrees of sensitivities you are perceiving that which is proper to you and you alone… No two people are exactly alike… Each person has his or her own “value” system… Different things, have different meaning and value to each of us.

This does not mean that anyone is right or wrong… only merely “different”…

This also applies to one’s religious experience/s.

For me, you would have to be more specific in what you are talking about with your friends and family… examples… i.e.

Your note seems to me, to indicate that you are talking more about the means to the end than the end. The Sacraments, and God’s Truth from within the structure of the church is to acheive an end to everyone’s Holiness and their personal transformation into Jesus.

Your concern seems to be focused on how they are not using the total means of the Truths of the church to grow into the Christ they should be, from the position they have within the Mystical Body of Christ.

Some people do not show thier faith outwardly as others… Some people do not act religious but are very spiritual deep within their hearts and minds.

God plants his truths deep within us, often by-passing the Religious Norm which “you” or others may need… But this does not automatically mean God is not working within them.

I think that if you would make it a point to read three or four chapters of the New Testament each day or evening, it should not take you more than a few weeks to get through it and you shall find so many wonderful scriptures which will paint the picture of how God often works in and through people which will give you ease and comfort in this particular position you have found yourself in…

Let me give you one…and I think it is pointing right at the center of your situation.

St. Paul wrote:

I plant the seed, Appolo waters it… and GOD ADDS THE INCREASE"…

It is good and proper for you to be concerned about your loved ones… and how they may be neglecting the Grace which is available for them for the growth of their faith…

However, it would be a good idea, from my point of view, for you to merely wait for the proper opportunities to plant your seed… Do it to the best of your ability and sit back
and let God do his part…

I would advise you to work on your own Spiritual Growth… and to go read and meditate on the “Ten Principles of the Catholic Church”… in order to futher your works for the lord…
(you can google those ten principles if you are not familiar with them)

Live your faith in front of your family but do not aim it at them too directly…

Volunteer at your church to do some charity… Become a Deacon… Teach Catechism
or just do what the church needs… and show your faith to your family…Show them that it does have great value for and too you…

I have a brother, and he does not believe in God… He has attempted to convince me that I have wasted some much of my life, and have missed out in so much predonist fun by living by the ten commandments. He has spent hours speaking against my faith.
This has went on for over sixty five years… and one day a few months ago… I bumped into
someone, who had met my brother at a dinner party… and this person told me, that someone else mentioned to my brother that I had never married again after my wife died of cancer when my wife and I were in our middle twenties… I had dedicated my life to the church… and that I was a fool according to their view…This person told me, that my brother jumped up and got right into that man’s face and told him…“my brother is almost a saint. and he serves God better than any person I know, and I know he does as I know all of his moves…and I know he does not cheat or pretend his faith…”

We never know what our witness is doing to our family or those who know us…

My advice…Read the New Testament and your present situation will pop up all through it…
From many of the writers…

Even Jesus… when he said “The way is narrow and “few” shall enter in”…

or, “Oh Jersulem I would have you as a mother hen would have her chicks but you would have me not”…
 
If Our Lord himself couldn’t convince people why do we think we’re going to be able to do it? Rmember it was his own people who denied him and turned him over for crucifixion, calling for his blood to be on them and their children. Think of that!

We humans are fallen. Our intellect has been darkened, our will weakened and our understanding clouded by original sin. Only the Holy Spirit can truly convince anyone of this–it’s his job so leave it to him.

As to falling attendance and faithful believers, I am not shocked or even surprised for Our Lord himself asked on his way to Calvary:

Luke 23: [27] And there followed him a great multitude of the people, and of women who bewailed and lamented him.
[28] But Jesus turning to them said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children.
[29] For behold, the days are coming when they will say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!' [30] Then they will begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us’; and to the hills, `Cover us.’
[31] For if they do this when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?”

He also lamented: Luke 18:8b “…when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

Jesus foresaw the day when men’s faith would fail and they would even deny him because men prefer the darkness to the light and don’t want anyone to tell them what to do, what they should be, or how to live their lives. They want to do whatever they like and receive a free pass. It’s rebellion, plain and simple.

What you are, Mijoy2 is a “white martyr”. You are being persecuted for speaking the truth, are praying for your loved ones to have a change of heart but they won’t listen, and you can do nothing to remedy the situation. Every good priest in the world feels what you feel. One of our priests preached on our empty parishes, that they are filled Christmas and Easter and all but deserted the rest of the year. And our priests are faithful and orthodox and work very hard, but they have the whole of society against them that has become very anti-Christian, especially anti-Catholic.

Don’t give up, but give your burden to Jesus and Mary who know all about it and who love your loved ones infinitely more than you or anyone else in the world could love them. Put them in their merciful hands and let God work on them. I’ve had to do it with my family too. I’m right there with you. One day God will let us all see how well we served him and what we did with the gift of grace he gave us, whether we squandered it or used it to his glory. We cannot save anyone, but we can give them to God and be there for them when they need us.
 
I too feel “upset” somehow at the fact that my siblings and many others I see and speak with are not agreeing with the Holy Catholic Church’s teachings. :confused: I struggle with this and gently try to evangelize them as blessed PJPII advised.
 
I spoke with a very nice lady after our bible study this week who praised martin luther for schisming. 😦
 
Mijoy2, you tread a dangerous line here. I recall your posts from only 2 months ago.

You wanted to revert to your Catholicism. At the same time, you pushed your wife to convert to your church. She graciously granted your request. (Put the shoe on the other foot and see how you’d feel about that. Think about your motivation for pushing her.) You pushed your children to convert. They graciously granted your request.

Now you’re upset because they’re not “living Catholic enough” according to whatever standard you’re pushing on them today.

Did you ever get in touch with your priest about this? Because you seem to be saying you’re spending all your energy “fighting” with everyone else about your perception of their faith lives, particularly compared to your own. Does your priest know this? Has he given his blessing to the way you’re “fighting” with your family? Did you wind up contacting a spiritual director? Does this person know of your family confrontations and your ongoing personal judgment of others’ spiritual situations?

I find it hard to believe a confessor would support this approach, or this attitude. I know mine wouldn’t (and doesn’t!). If you have not yet spoken with priest nor spiritual director, I again encourage you to seek their guidance. If you’re following their instruction as best you can, I encourage you to return and discuss your perceptions and troubles with them directly to seek a way that brings you more peace. And “peace” doesn’t mean that everyone does things the way you think they should do them 😉
 
MarcoPolo said:
It can be daunting, I understand. Many devout Catholics feel alien. I think even Scripture says we are aliens in this world, so to speak.
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1 Peter 2:11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and sojourners* to keep away from worldly desires that wage war against the soul.
 
How exhausted was our Lord, walking hundreds of miles through the dust only to have people walk away from Him? Give a read to John 6. Jesus is God, right? He is perfect and delivered the perfect message in the perfect manner. How did He do? Most of His followers left Him. Are you better than Jesus? Time for you to go and kick it with our Lord at adoration. You need spiritual refreshment, and He is waiting. Might also be your approach. Some people - most believers, probably, just aren’t that interested. Re-read the parable of the sower (Mark 4:1-20). Those are the people in your life.

Go to adoration. Word.
 
Be assured that you have in many ways expressed the sentiments of this old catholic. We are out here - and your openness has allowed me to know that others have had similar experiences. The responses have given me some insights as to how I may deal with these issues. Thanks for your message, God Bless you. 👍
 
I sympathize… A friend of mine give me some good advice keep debating the Faith to the internet. Because on th net people ar willing to have their views challenged and you can give references etc…In real life a kindly virtue is the best preaching.
 
I think you believe you can and should be able to do more than you are. Victory isn’t converting everyone you talk to. Victory is planting that seed in another (perhaps just one other), nurturing it, and letting it take hold. By turning even one person to Christ, you have won. You have done infinitelly more good than any materialistic or monetary assistance you have ever given. Now that doesn’t mean we should stop at one. However, it does mean that even one conversion is a victory. Living a life of virtue is a must. Learning about your faith also helps. If you are doing everything in your power, then you have done enough and God has the ability to handle the rest.
Best wishes and prayers, ccmnxc.
 
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