DH cracking on me!

[QuietTimes]

I really don’t think that was a ambiguous description. But to each their own.
I can see though where the later part if he were to get this done that sex can just become lustfull I had not even thought of that I dont know if he has or if that is one of his motives. On that I really have no idea but what I am aware because we have talked about this is that sex is for babies and bonding (like Dr. Janet Smith said in Contraception Why Not?) it is a procreative act and when we just subject each other for nothing but lust and pleasure then you objectify the other person and are really not showing respect for the marital act. I am not saying that bonding part is bad (it is actually good) but not lustfully speaking. Thats what I think. So on that note I am with you on what you are saying about sex. But I did not imply that in the beginning at all.

 

[Margita]

The fact is that many individuals, men and women, young and old, married and single, view sex as a need when it is simply not. The real need is to love and to be loved, and sex between a husband and wife just happens to be one way to show it. The fact that it is indeed a pleasurable way to show love does not mean it is the only way, or even the best way to show love at different stages in life.
(…)
A man who believes he will be free sexually by getting a vasectomy is showing that he is a slave to his sexual desires that he believes to be needs.

OK, so let’s get one thing straight. Sex is not a need - biologically speaking. Fact is, it becomes a need after years and years of married love. And every man and woman has a RIGHT to have sex with their spouse. It is all very well to speak about love and the need for love - but I believe there is a need for the particular form of expressing that love. Marriage is for prectising that form of expression, sex is part of the sacremental relationship between man and wife, it is a sacred act, let’s not belittle it!
I don’t think the husband in question wants to be sexually free. He wants to have sex without the anxiety - and to this, too, he is fully entitled. However, he is not entitled to the means by which he wants to get rid of his anxiety! It is not about lust, it is about paying the marriage debt/exercising conjugal rights without anxiety.

Now, this anxiety can be and should be soothed away. But not through vasectomy. Remember: a husband’s body is not his own, but it belongs to his wife. Just as a wife’s body is not her own, but it belongs to her husband. Vasectomy would mean mutilating the husband’s body, and through this, his wife’s body also. (and this is a modification of my previous post in which I stated that he does not want you to do anything but takes full responsibility - ah, I was a bit rash)
QuietTimes, try to persuade him of this. And find a way, together, with the help of a priest, to get rid of anxiety and be a happy and united couple.

 

[leonie]

If your dh is like mine, he’s just stressed out and tired. I’m sure you are, too. Do your best to plan some dates and make sure you give him lots of whatever relaxes him.

Although, once in my marriage when my dh was stressed out, and angry with me (yes, over NFP), I decided to give him lots of time to himself. This was a big mistake. He just withdrew from the family. So, don’t do that.

The baby my dh was most angry about is his favorite kid.

 

[vluvski]

it is a sacred act, let’s not belittle it!

No, let’s definitely not. QT provided a list of things DH wanted, grouped them together as a valid need, and base on the line ‘come and go as he pleased’ I assumed she was talking mainly about his “need” for sex. My mistake.
I was attempting to address the fact that it is not a need. To believe it is a need takes away from it’s sacredness as much as belittling it as wholly unnecessary.
On the other hand, sex is only a right to each spouse as they are available to give that gift to the other. If the couple has together discerned a serious need to avoid pregnancy, one spouse is not violating the other’s right to sex by upholding that decision during moments of desire. Naturally, illness, incapacitation, geographical separation, or physical location are other legitimate limitations to that right. I guess my point is that the right to sex is always superceded by the propriety of the act at that particular time. The notion that a spouse should be able to come and go as he or she pleases is contrary to a wholesome view of sexuality.

I don’t think the husband in question wants to be sexually free. He wants to have sex without the anxiety - and to this, too, he is fully entitled.

Thanks, that’s what I was trying to get at when I talked about what he might think “selling his sexuality into slavery” (vasectomy) would accomplish. I was thinking along the lines ‘he wants to be free to have sex he can enjoy with his wife without distractions’ and referred to that concept as his goal of sexual freedom.

 

[vluvski]

Correction: Just reread QT’s post, and it did not say “come and go as he pleased.” My mistake, again. Maybe this heat is effecting my reading comprehension. Not to mention it’s getting late.

 

[johntkd]

What would happen if you said, “Getting yourself neutered like an animal will kill my interest in sex. Just want you to know that before you go an do it.” —KCT

yes that is a Bit harsh fight one supposed wrong with another that is equally the same scale …

 

[johntkd]

Also, be sure to let him know that men that have vasectomies are at a much higher risk of prostate cancer.

this is the post I chose to put my response to yes its true the cancer risk rises significantly, vasectomies are not 100 percent either sperm tend to find alternate routes, they are stubborn…

on that note the last two posters posted to use a threat of no sex of a lack of sex thats just as wrong biblically as a vasectomy, funny how you all are willing to go against church teaching when you feel something else shouldnt be done.
I see you as kind of picking and choosing what you want to buy into for a Church teaching and then forcing how you feel on someone else. maybe this man dont buy into the teaching that a vasectomy is bad, kind of like you dont buy into the teaching that holding back from spouse or using as a “reward” is bad.

 

[QuietTimes]

Margita you hit it right on the head ( no pun intended) once again. YOUR GOOD!! That is exactly what I think. Today DH came home and slept all evening and we didn’t talk so hopefully tommorow when I get back from work he can finally feel relaxed and we can talk about this in a civilized manner.
It is hot here too in the 90’s and it’s only May I wonder what is in store for us this summer. Oh the misery.

Oh and John trust me I don’t hold back, he occasionally does (thats whole different issue) I am not the one picking and choosing what the church teaches. I think that is what got me in this pregnant state to begin with. Know what I mean:blushing: But on a serious note NFP does require that you abstain in your fertile phase if you wish to postpone a baby, my issue was I just couldnt tell maybe I wasnt a good listener when we attended our classes. The whole temprature shift and shaving and low and high. Plus I am nursing too.That has thrown me for a loop.I really intened to call our couple that taught us but I only got my period once and and didn’t get it again so what good does that do me at this point. I wont be rushing anytime soon but
I hope in the near future to relearn it or learn something else like the creighton method. I don’t know. I am tired and my quiet time is over so I must sleep now.

 

[KCT]

on that note the last two posters posted to use a threat of no sex of a lack of sex thats just as wrong biblically as a vasectomy,

So a husband can completely ignore his wife’s wishes, have himself sterilized, and his wife is supposed to joyfully jump into bed with him?

I think she should be perfectly free to tell him that what he did has an affect on her and on the marriage. It may not mean no sex, but it certainly could make her feel used. —KCT

 

[johntkd]

Margita you hit it right on the head ( no pun intended) once again. YOUR GOOD!! That is exactly what I think. Today DH came home and slept all evening and we didn’t talk so hopefully tommorow when I get back from work he can finally feel relaxed and we can talk about this in a civilized manner.
It is hot here too in the 90’s and it’s only May I wonder what is in store for us this summer. Oh the misery.

Oh and John trust me I don’t hold back, he occasionally does (thats whole different issue) I am not the one picking and choosing what the church teaches. I think that is what got me in this pregnant state to begin with. Know what I mean:blushing: But on a serious note NFP does require that you abstain in your fertile phase if you wish to postpone a baby, my issue was I just couldnt tell maybe I wasnt a good listener when we attended our classes. The whole temprature shift and shaving and low and high. Plus I am nursing too.That has thrown me for a loop.I really intened to call our couple that taught us but I only got my period once and and didn’t get it again so what good does that do me at this point. I wont be rushing anytime soon but
I hope in the near future to relearn it or learn something else like the creighton method. I don’t know. I am tired and my quiet time is over so I must sleep now.

Quiet times:
No i wasnt meaning you were the one threatening it, two posters after you had , to them what they think is fine and dandy they can do no wrong they can choose to “ignore” certain rules because its them, but someone else do it or a spouse and they send a wrath down on them, its the same things that get NON Catholics looking down on the church,
its against church teaching to get a vasectomy its also against church teaching to use the “act” as a weapon or to withhold as a punishment, however my point was that to some on here its ok if they look the other way BUT noone else better do it, they have an excuse to do what they want, they rationalize it differently well I am very sure a person can rationalise a vasectomy in the same ways.

KCT
its also perfectly fine for the man to feel the same way about constant pregnancies, two wrongs do not make a right and sorry but your I am above church teaching when ever i feel like it attitude is what causes many to not convert, they see as I do the many many people who come to church drunker than a skunk esspecially for the Christmas mass, then tell people they went to mass so they are forgiven,

If the issue was to ruin as you say, then neither party is in it for better or for worse,we are not supposed to seek a revenge on something, That is not our resposibility or purpose in this world. Yet your attitude and suggestions to someone are exactly that.
its not up to us to punish someone either .
so before you suggest to someone asking for help to commit an act as bad as the one being done that they are asking about in the first place you might want to think it through,
if you truely think such a thing would hamper your ability to unify with a spouse, maybe it would be better to go your separate ways.as you are holding the attitude its my way or the highway anyways, life isnt like that sorry.I would take the highway.
but then again I try not to be around those whom are selfish and controlling anyways so it wouldnt even be an issue.

Quiet times: keep seeking advice, BUT dont use threats,they serve no real purpose other than to cause many future problems.
and what on this earth could you possibly have to threaten than is worse than eternal damnation anyways.

Sorry if i seem rude But I get so sick of seeing people on this site tell someone to seek revenge on someone else because of something they did, or plan to do.also keep in mind there is nothing we know of at all that is 100 percent effective against contraception, NOT EVEN ABSTINENCE like so many seem to believe if God wants you to have a baby guess what, nothing you can do say and nowhere you hide will stop that fact…
People using NFP just think they are beating God and only because he allows them to think that.

John

 

[QuietTimes]

You know John for many years I used that excuse about what people did or did not do to keep me away from the church. What I came to see was that that was just a cop out on my behalf it does not matter what what people do or say that changes the church nothing can. Doctrine is what it is like it or not I am not going to assume that you have or havent studied NFP so on that basis. I am only going to speak for myself, I can understand that for a outsider looking in it may look like a form of birth control, but it is much more than that I found out later. I study more than my husband usually for instance I now understand thelogy of the body and before I did not and that is the case with many people. Just because they dont have a full grasp on it does it make it less clear or does it change it it in any way. If I practiced my faith according to what people do (even a priest that is less than priestly) then I would not make for a decent catholic. I do what I do because God calls me and he has shown me and helped me understand the church. I dont have a intepretation of my own I just try to obey the best that I can and have found happiness this way instead of depending on people. I dont know if you can understand my position. Myself and many of us dont try to beat God at nothing, because we cannot.
Anyways I came here for opinions on how to handle this problem not everybody is going to be charitable or nice or helpful for that matter but many people are and for those that are I am thankful. I did not seek revenge on my husband because that would not be the best thing to do with anybody.

 

[johntkd]

You know John for many years I used that excuse about what people did or did not do to keep me away from the church. What I came to see was that that was just a cop out on my behalf it does not matter what what people do or say that changes the church nothing can. Doctrine is what it is like it or not I am not going to assume that you have or havent studied NFP so on that basis. I am only going to speak for myself, I can understand that for a outsider looking in it may look like a form of birth control, but it is much more than that I found out later. I study more than my husband usually for instance I now understand thelogy of the body and before I did not and that is the case with many people. Just because they dont have a full grasp on it does it make it less clear or does it change it it in any way. If I practiced my faith according to what people do (even a priest that is less than priestly) then I would not make for a decent catholic. I do what I do because God calls me and he has shown me and helped me understand the church. I dont have a intepretation of my own I just try to obey the best that I can and have found happiness this way instead of depending on people. I dont know if you can understand my position. Myself and many of us dont try to beat God at nothing, because we cannot.
Anyways I came here for opinions on how to handle this problem not everybody is going to be charitable or nice or helpful for that matter but many people are and for those that are I am thankful. I did not seek revenge on my husband because that would not be the best thing to do with anybody.

I really think you took what I said wrong.
I never said you did seek a revenge,Nor did i put you down for using NFP, had you read my post you would have seen that i stated NOTHING is 100%, when i said about the NFP thats because so many people that use it and are trying to get others to see thier point tend to spruce up the actual statistics on NFP.
And they are misusing it as a Birth Control,instead of the tool its supposed to be for spacing,( granted exceptions apply for other areas where dangers exist)
My point on that is it really dont matter what you do or what you use if you are meant to have a baby you will, vesectomy,BC pills NFP,hysterectomy, tubal ligation etc,even abstinence is not 100%.

Heck some people on here will even tell you when you are breast feeding you will not become fertile, thats prolly as effective as the pull out or the old rythem methods… NOT effective at all.
actual statistics show only about 9% of women whom are breast feeding will not ovulate, that leaves 91% that will…

anyways I guess the point i am making is vesectomys are not even close to 100% I have 7 kids in my karate classes that are from vasectomy Fathers that I Know of,
Caused all kinds of problems till paternity tests were done as you can imagine…I also know of 3 children conceived after tubal ligations. you really need to dig up them facts and show them to your hubby, with the risk of prostate cancer involved and other complications that can come from a vasectomy up to and including impotency, its hardly worth the risk…these are also the same facts Drs try to keep from you, as they make money performing these procedures not scaring you from them…